Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines: 2 - I want to believe, but...

[Radical Cadre]

It is a shame that you guys will never ever get to write for this game because you have accounts at the infamous hate site Kiwi Farms.

Some dangerhair is going to make the Prince a troon instead.

 

[knightlautrec]

The biggest issue of this was the fact Bloodlines didn't have a likeable Ventrue character. Every major character had some level of likeability other than LaCroix and Ming Xiao. Strauss was polite and fairly decent to you from day one, but he was Tremere. Smiling Jack was charismatic and the tutorial bro, and Nines reminded everyone of that socialist buddy they had who'd they drink with and discuss philosophy (who also soloed a fucking WEREWOLF). Both were Brujah. Isaac was a dick at first but warmed to you like everyone else in Hollywood. Those were all Toreador. The Voerman Sisters were sympathetic Malkavians, as was Strauss on a very weird level. All the Nosferatus you met were likeable. not counting Imalia, and Gary Golden was fucking awesome. The only Gangrel, Beckett, was massively popular in the tabletop game and from his limited appearences you can see why. The ONLY representative Clan Ventrue had other than the PC was a short, power hungry Hitler youth-looking motherfucker who actively dicked you over at every turn to assuage his own ego while whining about how hard his job was. Granted, you can flip it on its head and point out each character I mentioned had problems, but LaCroix had no redeeming qualities unlike them. Hence, Ventrue are just the "dick" faction in a lot of people's minds.

All the lesser clans want to complain and call Ventures evil but if they all disappeared so would the infrastructure of the entire Cam and the Anarchs. Everyone thinks they can do the job until it comes comes to brass tacks and they prove themselves to be disorganised messes they are. Ventrue do a service to the undead community in ways no other clan does that is very much boiled down to such a simplistic antagonists by annoying 'ventrue are white men' and 'evvvvillllll capitalists' uninspired nuWW writers and SJW dirtbags who couldn't understand nuance if it danced its sweaty balls on their face. There's no more proof of that than the Lore of Clans book where the Ventrue fluff part is an interview with a Anarch Ventrue and their disdain for the clan and the fact Ventrue got shafted on combo disciplines and merits and flaws. (Most of it was AntiVentrue) NuWW kinda treats Ventrue like garbage.

I agree, though. Obviously. I've met so many whiny 'ventrue are boring' players that I have to remind them 'no, you've met boring Ventrue players who don't understand the concept of 'heavy is the head that holds the crown' and plays then one sided evil' . There is a difference. A good Ventrue is a captivating face and brilliant tactician back ended by Manipulation and Influence plays. It's a difficult clan and the dumb dumbs just love to label them 'bad white man bad' cuz they can't play smart. Especially these days. Which is why they keep pushing every V5 Ventrue as a black person and making the latest Chicago Prince the reject dummy GangBanger Ventrue instead of one of the legit successors of the throne. It's pretty eyerolling. Just historically not even a race thing- a black Ventrue is less likely to be older than 150 if they're new world so that means they're barely out of training teeth and their agog / accounting from their Sire if they're in the last century. And I'm supposed to believe they're some high power player? Because I don't.

Sorry, autistic sperging about Ventrue aside, you are right. They're easy to make likable as well. I've played plenty.

 

[EnemyStand]

All the lesser clans want to complain and call Ventures evil but if they all disappeared so would the infrastructure of the entire Cam and the Anarchs. Everyone thinks they can do the job until it comes comes to brass tacks and they prove themselves to be disorganised messes they are. Ventrue do a service to the undead community in ways no other clan does that is very much boiled down to such a simplistic antagonists by annoying 'ventrue are white men' and 'evvvvillllll capitalists' uninspired nuWW writers and SJW dirtbags who couldn't understand nuance if it danced its sweaty balls on their face. There's no more proof of that than the Lore of Clans book where the Ventrue fluff part is an interview with a Anarch Ventrue and their disdain for the clan and the fact Ventrue got shafted on combo disciplines and merits and flaws. (Most of it was AntiVentrue) NuWW kinda treats Ventrue like garbage.

I agree, though. Obviously. I've met so many whiny 'ventrue are boring' players that I have to remind them 'no, you've met boring Ventrue players who don't understand the concept of 'heavy is the head that holds the crown' and plays then one sided evil' . There is a difference. A good Ventrue is a captivating face and brilliant tactician back ended by Manipulation and Influence plays. It's a difficult clan and the dumb dumbs just love to label them 'bad white man bad' cuz they can't play smart. Especially these days. Which is why they keep pushing every V5 Ventrue as a black person and making the latest Chicago Prince the reject dummy GangBanger Ventrue instead of one of the legit successors of the throne. It's pretty eyerolling. Just historically not even a race thing- a black Ventrue is less likely to be older than 150 if they're new world so that means they're barely out of training teeth and their agog / accounting from their Sire if they're in the last century. And I'm supposed to believe they're some high power player? Because I don't.

Sorry, autistic sperging about Ventrue aside, you are right. They're easy to make likable as well. I've played plenty.

I had a buddy who liked Ventrue, so I've experienced knightly style, father-to-his-men style, elitist WASPy white man's burden style, and priestly style. He did a commie Ventrue too at one point, that was pretty fun because his Sire kept wondering where he went wrong and the Sire became a laughingstock at court. It's a lack of understanding people have. Ventrue are vampire Captain Americas: the glue that ultimately holds the team together even if they aren't flashy. Between Brujah rabble rousing, Nosferatu dickery, Tremere nearly ending the world nightly, Toreador almost shattering the Masqureade nightly, Gangrel who think running around in the woods and pissing on the new rugs is a good time, and Malkavians...sometimes you need a no fun guy to step in and be the adult to keep things moving.

But nah, Ventrue are evil capitalists uwu. See Sebastian La Croix you fool.

 

[Ginger Piglet]

I had a buddy who liked Ventrue, so I've experienced knightly style, father-to-his-men style, elitist WASPy white man's burden style, and priestly style. He did a commie Ventrue too at one point, that was pretty fun because his Sire kept wondering where he went wrong and the Sire became a laughingstock at court. It's a lack of understanding people have. Ventrue are vampire Captain Americas: the glue that ultimately holds the team together even if they aren't flashy. Between Brujah rabble rousing, Nosferatu dickery, Tremere nearly ending the world nightly, Toreador almost shattering the Masqureade nightly, Gangrel who think running around in the woods and pissing on the new rugs is a good time, and Malkavians...sometimes you need a no fun guy to step in and be the adult to keep things moving.

But nah, Ventrue are evil capitalists uwu. See Sebastian La Croix you fool.

Last time I played tabletop VTM I was a Ventrue. Basically I played him as a sort of rather vague and grey and boring type who is more than happy to go along with things, do the heavy lifting of keeping everyone together. In the warm blooded days he was a lawyer. Only, this was an act. Always seem less than that which you are. Take the orders and go about one's business like a good little office drone... then casually drop some information or question on the way out that blows everything wide open. Oh, don't mind me, I'm just working late at the office. Oh, but I'm sure you've already thought of this, my Lord, it shouldn't be a big surprise. Oh, but of course it's just a rumour that he's secretly hanging out with the Anarchs, I'm sure there's no weight to it. There is? Well then, I'm sure I can deal with it for you. No, I don't necessarily want anything in return, it's my duty to the Clan, but I wouldn't want to engender bad feeling amongst those of us down in the trenches.

 

[EnemyStand]

I actually have to blame Bloodlines for that a bit, as much as I enjoyed the game. Admittedly, most of the characters are pretty indicative of their clan: Nines and his constant Brujah seethe, La Croix and his control freak BS, Strauss and his woo woo mysterious Tremere crap (also I fucked up, can you handle that for me neonate?)...and the Malk PC is a textbook fishmalk, funny as (s)he is. Hell, Beckett, the Voermans, Skelter, and Strauss are the only non-stereotypical vamps in the whole game.

 

[Corn Flakes]

I actually have to blame Bloodlines for that a bit, as much as I enjoyed the game. Admittedly, most of the characters are pretty indicative of their clan: Nines and his constant Brujah seethe, La Croix and his control freak BS, Strauss and his woo woo mysterious Tremere crap (also I fucked up, can you handle that for me neonate?)...and the Malk PC is a textbook fishmalk, funny as (s)he is. Hell, Beckett, the Voermans, Skelter, and Strauss are the only non-stereotypical vamps in the whole game.

Actually, Voerman is the stereotypical Malkavian, what with the hardcore DID she's got going on. The player character is (by definition) extremely sane. They never lose control, it's just their speech that's all weird and laced with foreshadowing. A fishmalk is one of those characters who acts weird for no reason, the Malk PC is actually closer to an oracle stereotype than anything else and in my experience those are extremely rare to find as PCs on the tabletop.

 

[EnemyStand]

Actually, Voerman is the stereotypical Malkavian, what with the hardcore DID she's got going on. The player character is (by definition) extremely sane. They never lose control, it's just their speech that's all weird and laced with foreshadowing. A fishmalk is one of those characters who acts weird for no reason, the Malk PC is actually closer to an oracle stereotype than anything else and in my experience those are extremely rare to find as PCs on the tabletop.

That's fair, but before the Voermans were a thing I never saw a Malk with DID, so that's probably my own bias talking. You're right about the PC, I think it's more accurate to say it inspired people to play fishmalks simply because every hack wannabe comedian thought they could be that funny and took it way too far. Actually, speaking of that was one thing about 2: I was kind of wanting to see where they went with that blond dude who Jokerized that family at Christmas in the teaser trailer. He seemed more interesting than anything else they came up with.

 

[Dom Cruise]

Paradox should get the Silicon Knights crew back together for this game.

Actually fuck that. Nintendo should get the Silicon Knights crew back together for another Eternal Darkness.

Yeahhhhh, the head writer of Eternal Darkness is currently in prison for child porn, seriously.

Eternal Darkness seems like a weirdly cursed IP, so much massive potential for a long running franchise but every attempt to try to bring it back in some way ended in disaster, including, like I said, the lead writer being busted for child porn.

 

[TVStactic]

Yeahhhhh, the head writer of Eternal Darkness is currently in prison for child porn, seriously.

Eternal Darkness seems like a weirdly cursed IP, so much massive potential for a long running franchise but every attempt to try to bring it back in some way ended in disaster, including, like I said, the lead writer being busted for child porn.

so it's the lamenters of game development? huh.

i wonder if the new studio will try to mix it up with the VMB tabletop and the janky game we got after trimming the fat of whatever hardsuit managed to do, because paradox will make them do that fo' sho.

 

[EnemyStand]

so it's the lamenters of game development? huh.

i wonder if the new studio will try to mix it up with the VMB tabletop and the janky game we got after trimming the fat of whatever hardsuit managed to do, because paradox will make them do that fo' sho.

I think you're being a bit optimistic. It wouldn't bother me if it was in development for another couple years to make something really good, but considering all the money that was thrown at the project I doubt they'll trim much. I'd prefer if they didn't reach out to the Vampire tabletop community because its SocJus from the top all the way down for the most part, as fun as the setting is. I wouldn't mind if they did what VTMB 1 did, which subtly took the piss out of both sides politically without it getting in the way of the game, but considering Hardsuit seemed to miss the entire point of Damsel, I doubt that's likely.

 

[Honest Coyote]

If I wanted a good ventrue npc, I would make him a masquerade breach respondant, and his sidequests would be heavy stealth/diplomacy and light on combat, similar to the ship mission or the museum mission in the first. Steal a security tape, swap a gun in police evidence with a different one of the same caliber to protect a ghoul, teack down a witness so I can mindwipe her, photograph a manuscript so we can create a sanitized duplicate and later swap them, No Killings, because that attracts attention. Add some offbeat stuff that uses a minor skill (like history or intimidation) if you feel those skills are underused throughout the rest of the game. Have him generally be fairly straightforward and business oriented, and give decent rewards to the player.

If you keep a divided Miami setting, his more manipulative side comes out trying to use the Inquisition against the Sabbat, so they're weakened without the Camarilla violating the agreement.

 

[Dark Edea]

Yeahhhhh, the head writer of Eternal Darkness is currently in prison for child porn, seriously.

Eternal Darkness seems like a weirdly cursed IP, so much massive potential for a long running franchise but every attempt to try to bring it back in some way ended in disaster, including, like I said, the lead writer being busted for child porn.

We live in a progressive utopia now. Pedo amnesty will be here soon and we can get Eternal Darkness 2.

 

[mindlessobserver]

Not a shocker, The only released gameplay footage looks like complete ass. Clunkier than african tractor, and the locales were all gray and soulless.
I'm honestly a bit grateful, because present day World of Darkness lore is cringe. Gay muslim vampires and the rulebooks telling you to be considerate and not try to roleplay a nazi vampire

What is funny is considering the current social zeitgeist, the most Brujah thing to do would be to act like a neo nazi, or even better, a bog standard Christian conservative. If your bloodline is reflexively trying to challenge "the system" and rebel against conformity then the most rebellious thing for a Brujah to be would be say...a priest with hard conservative views, that reflexively bucks the admonitions in the rule book, and constantly shits on Toreadors for being massive sluts while refusing to feed off black people because their blood is impure.

How the times change

 

[EnemyStand]

What is funny is considering the current social zeitgeist, the most Brujah thing to do would be to act like a neo nazi, or even better, a bog standard Christian conservative. If your bloodline is reflexively trying to challenge "the system" and rebel against conformity then the most rebellious thing for a Brujah to be would be say...a priest with hard conservative views, that reflexively bucks the admonitions in the rule book, and constantly shits on Toreadors for being massive sluts while refusing to feed off black people because their blood is impure.

How the times change

Yeah, but the devs didn't seem to get that. Now granted, you'll have some Brujah that think BLM is fighting the system (or is doing it to spite vampire dad), but as has been noted earlier any cause against The Man is a Brujah thing no matter what form The Man takes. The lack of nuance we've all seen from the devs of VtMB 2 is saddening for the clan, but not surprising.

 

[Dom Cruise]

We live in a progressive utopia now. Pedo amnesty will be here soon and we can get Eternal Darkness 2.

This all went down in Canada, making it even more likely.

 

[SiccDicc]

That's a good point but it's also not necessarily true. There's an easy trick to make a Ventrue sympathetic, and it's to literally have their ideas of nobility and leadership be something they actually believe and strive for rather than something they just pay lip service to as a means to an end. Hell, I'm not even saying they should not have had La Croix in the game. He's a good villain and a great way to show how nasty a Ventrue could get. But that really needed to be counterbalanced with a Ventrue who sees being a leader as more than just bossing everyone around and getting your way more often than not. Hell, a Ventrue like that could easily come across as both likeable and fatherly/motherly (as opposed to the cold courtesy Strauss exemplifies).

Nines should have revealed he was actually a Ventrue pretending to be a Brujah to keep his team together. That would have been a bigger twist than finding out Vader is your father.

 

[Ponchik]

It is a shame that you guys will never ever get to write for this game because you have accounts at the infamous hate site Kiwi Farms.

Some dangerhair is going to make the Prince a troon instead.

those are more credentials than what the vast majority of modern day game writers have

 

[EnemyStand]

Nines should have revealed he was actually a Ventrue pretending to be a Brujah to keep his team together. That would have been a bigger twist than finding out Vader is your father.

The only problem is Troika would be accused of murder due to everyone who played the game's heads exploding. Then SAO could shake with envy.

 

[AsbestosFlaygon]

Considering the game's been pretty obviously shitting down Float's Creek for a long while it's nice to finally see Paradox officially acknowledge there's a problem with it. If they're willing to significantly overhaul it then honestly they might get something worthwhile out of it yet. Don't know if Paradox have ever done anything like that before, but hey, as someone that's been pessimistic on this fucking title since day one I'm willing to be optimistic for it, just this one time though.

 

[Ginger Piglet]

Considering the game's been pretty obviously shitting down Float's Creek for a long while it's nice to finally see Paradox officially acknowledge there's a problem with it. If they're willing to significantly overhaul it then honestly they might get something worthwhile out of it yet. Don't know if Paradox have ever done anything like that before, but hey, as someone that's been pessimistic on this fucking title since day one I'm willing to be optimistic for it, just this one time though.

On a scale of 1 to Star Shitizen, where would we put it?