Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines: 2 - I want to believe, but...

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Emperor Julian said:
I can see were you're coming from with this, I always considered metaplot optional and minimalized or ignored it's impact when it was inconveniance. If anything it's a tool you can use or not, I'm probably going to use the Lasombra defection but alter it. Most likely I'm going to say a large faction of younger humanity path Lasombra clan has mass defected to both Anarchs and Carmarilla since there has been an underlying issue in clan with Eldar abuse in 3rd and 20th, effectively ensuring the Antritribu is a bulky numerous bloodline rather than a full blown clan defection with amis noirs and the courts of blood as secret institutions transending sect. This opens up Lasombra for non-sabbat play rather than gutting the clan and creates lot of new dynamics. I'm also keeping Necromancy and Obtenebration seperate since Oblivion creates more complications than it solves.
I always approve of being provided more tools-which can then be disregarded if conveniant, if v5 fucked up it was the complete dearth of lore, the loss of paths and clans was genuinly perplexing as were the attempts to crudely weld several disciplines into one. Culimating in the bizzare attempt to merge the Giovanni, Cappadocians, Lamia, Samedi and Nagaraja into one (in)coherant death clan. All these attempts to streamline created a confused, decimated mess.
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I honestly think the biggest problem with WoD's metaplot is that the hardcore "true art" angsty goth spergs in the fanbase don't view as optional but as a mandatory thing to keep people from playing their pretend vampire game the wrong way. Aside from my personal distate for the metaplot and its decisions, the fact that so many spergs treat it as holy canon makes me dislike it even more.

The fact that Onyx Path, Paradox, and the later incarnations of White Wolf are largely comprised of those spergs and listen to them doesn't help matters. V5 can only be played with the metaplot baked into the game. Every other edition of the game leaves it optional and ultimately up to the ST, even Revised Edition was like that if you stuck to the corebook and ignored the supplements for that specific edition.
 
Pentex said:
People are asking the World of Darkness Twitter account about Bloodlines 2 and getting ignored. LOL.
Paradox's pet Polack janny offered this nugget of wisdom concerning the latest controversy.
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nobody cares about that broad and actually she being gone is the only good news that has come from this game. also watching the world of darkness twitter account this ip is fucking dead let it rest already.
 
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www.imdb.com

Samantha Wallschlaeger - IMDb

Samantha Wallschlaeger, Writer: Mass Effect: Andromeda
www.imdb.com www.imdb.com
>Mass Effect: Andromeda (Video Game) (writer)

It's like a birth in reverse - never gets better, always gets worse.
 
I was looking at her Twitter she seems to be quite young and she has only worked on TORtanic and ME:A. Shouldn't they give the job of lead narrative designer to someone a bit older with more achievements on their résumé?
 
Miller said:
I was looking at her Twitter she seems to be quite young and she has only worked on TORtanic and ME:A. Shouldn't they give the job of lead narrative designer to someone a bit older with more achievements on their résumé?
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Merit is some kind of -ist to them.
 
Syaoran Li said:
I honestly think the biggest problem with WoD's metaplot is that the hardcore "true art" angsty goth spergs in the fanbase don't view as optional but as a mandatory thing to keep people from playing their pretend vampire game the wrong way. Aside from my personal distate for the metaplot and its decisions, the fact that so many spergs treat it as holy canon makes me dislike it even more.

The fact that Onyx Path, Paradox, and the later incarnations of White Wolf are largely comprised of those spergs and listen to them doesn't help matters. V5 can only be played with the metaplot baked into the game. Every other edition of the game leaves it optional and ultimately up to the ST, even Revised Edition was like that if you stuck to the corebook and ignored the supplements for that specific edition.
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You've got a good point but I feel it was part of a larger issue that they were working on a fallacy of a perfect correct way to play VT. One of the smarter moves D&D ever made was making stuff like Dark sun and Ravenloft which sends a clear signal their is no 'correct' way to run D&D by exploring low fantasy and gothic horror.
White wolf by contrast has persued a 'pure' version of the setting, in my experiance their were roughly 4-5 types of VTM ranging from Katanas street samuri through to what I call the anne rice dance of the immortals, the trouble is compounded by the inevitable issue of differant authors with differant visions of what they want to do, for example I know our perspectives are ireconcilable because I don't like trenchcoats and katanas shit. I don't think it's 'wrong' I just find it boring. Wereas you might not care for my season 1-5 game of thrones but vampire gang wars intrigue approach. This problem is white wolf is both implicit their's a 'correct'way to play the game and then flip-flops on the 'right' approach where the initial outline was Anarch/brujah/neonate vs Carmarilla/Ventrue/Eldar the game eventually developed into some retarded power struggle between Tzmisce and Saulot-two characters who were untouchable to the average player. encouraging it's autistic fandom into the issue you've mentiononed now it's trying to bounce back to the older struggle. This results in frustration for differant contradictory issues, for example you're annoyed about the metaplot wereas I'm annoyed V5 metaplot developements are dogshit.

Then again I prefer mage the ascention and think mage the awakening is overated so the fuck I know?
 
Emperor Julian said:
You've got a good point but I feel it was part of a larger issue that they were working on a fallacy of a perfect correct way to play VT. One of the smarter moves D&D ever made was making stuff like Dark sun and Ravenloft which sends a clear signal their is no 'correct' way to run D&D by exploring low fantasy and gothic horror.
White wolf by contrast has persued a 'pure' version of the setting, in my experiance their were roughly 4-5 types of VTM ranging from Katanas street samuri through to what I call the anne rice dance of the immortals, the trouble is compounded by the inevitable issue of differant authors with differant visions of what they want to do, for example I know our perspectives are ireconcilable because I don't like trenchcoats and katanas shit. I don't think it's 'wrong' I just find it boring. Wereas you might not care for my season 1-5 game of thrones but vampire gang wars intrigue approach. This problem is white wolf is both implicit their's a 'correct'way to play the game and then flip-flops on the 'right' approach where the initial outline was Anarch/brujah/neonate vs Carmarilla/Ventrue/Eldar the game eventually developed into some retarded power struggle between Tzmisce and Saulot-two characters who were untouchable to the average player. encouraging it's autistic fandom into the issue you've mentiononed now it's trying to bounce back to the older struggle. This results in frustration for differant contradictory issues, for example you're annoyed about the metaplot wereas I'm annoyed V5 metaplot developements are dogshit.

Then again I prefer mage the ascention and think mage the awakening is overated so the fuck I know?
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The thing is that I never saw "trenchcoats and katanas" and "Game of Thrones-tier vampire gang politics" as mutually exclusive. I'd often combine the two together, it's the metaplot and the pretentious goth/punk angst that made everything so unbearable.

Onyx Path and the later iterations of White Wolf are a classic example of inmates running the asylum. All the autistic purity spirals only made things worse.

I do agree Mage: The Ascension is pretty fucking awesome, sans the metaplot stuff from Revised onward.

Granted, V5's metaplot developments actively were dogshit even compared to the previous stuff and made things worse
 
Miller said:
I was looking at her Twitter she seems to be quite young and she has only worked on TORtanic and ME:A. Shouldn't they give the job of lead narrative designer to someone a bit older with more achievements on their résumé?
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Miller that person is expensive, a young starry eyed idealist is much cheaper and much more likely to put up with bullshit
 
JuanButNotForgotten said:
View attachment 1689293

www.imdb.com

Samantha Wallschlaeger - IMDb

Samantha Wallschlaeger, Writer: Mass Effect: Andromeda
www.imdb.com www.imdb.com
>Mass Effect: Andromeda (Video Game) (writer)

It's like a birth in reverse - never gets better, always gets worse.
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This reeks of desperation, they probably just don't have anybody better willing to work with them on their sinking ship.
Also i still think that the writers should be more or less done at this point of production and i don't understand why would they have such a insane turnover for somebody who should be just polishing side quests at this point. On the other hand their new release date is "sometime in 2021" so they might have scrapped the entire story for all we know.
 
Dreamer said:
This reeks of desperation, they probably just don't have anybody better willing to work with them on their sinking ship.
Also i still think that the writers should be more or less done at this point of production and i don't understand why would they have such a insane turnover for somebody who should be just polishing side quests at this point. On the other hand their new release date is "sometime in 2021" so they might have scrapped the entire story for all we know.
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Goes to show what your studios reputation can bring. When CD Projekt ran into issues with branching storylines on Cyberpunk, they brought on the narrative lead from fallout new vegas. An inspired choice. And when your company presents itself as professional and focused on quality projects you get the best of the best wanting their name in the credits.

And then we got Hardsuit, who has spent more time over the last two years virtue signaling how wonderful their progressive vampire game will be. Meaning when they fell into the shit the only person they got willing to put their name on the story was a second string narrative design writer from THE WORST bioware story bar none. Not even inquisition was the discordant shit heap that was Andromeda. I bet this bitch was as desperate as Hardsuit. Match made in hell.
 
Syaoran Li said:
The thing is that I never saw "trenchcoats and katanas" and "Game of Thrones-tier vampire gang politics" as mutually exclusive. I'd often combine the two together, it's the metaplot and the pretentious goth/punk angst that made everything so unbearable.

Onyx Path and the later iterations of White Wolf are a classic example of inmates running the asylum. All the autistic purity spirals only made things worse.

I do agree Mage: The Ascension is pretty fucking awesome, sans the metaplot stuff from Revised onward.

Granted, V5's metaplot developments actively were dogshit even compared to the previous stuff and made things worse
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I wouldn't say metaplot is bad in general, and if you don't have one that's another thing some people complain about only to complain about when it doesn't go their way (see 40k and primaris).
maybe it's a side effect of shitty writers pulling another AN ANCIENT EVIL HAS AWOKEN YOU ARE THE CHOSEN ONE - not everything has to be world-changing, large-scale super important. especially in RPGs where you can play whatever you want how you want - down to playing V5 in a SS uniform just to shit on their "this game is not for fascists" hot take (still think someone needs to do a photo op with this one).
 
ZMOT said:
I wouldn't say metaplot is bad in general, and if you don't have one that's another thing some people complain about only to complain about when it doesn't go their way (see 40k and primaris).
maybe it's a side effect of shitty writers pulling another AN ANCIENT EVIL HAS AWOKEN YOU ARE THE CHOSEN ONE - not everything has to be world-changing, large-scale super important. especially in RPGs where you can play whatever you want how you want - down to playing V5 in a SS uniform just to shit on their "this game is not for fascists" hot take (still think someone needs to do a photo op with this one).
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I get that completely. Metaplot itself can be a good thing if done properly.

WoD's metaplot is a prime example of what NOT to do when your game has a metaplot.
 
Syaoran Li said:
I get that completely. Metaplot itself can be a good thing if done properly.

WoD's metaplot is a prime example of what NOT to do when your game has a metaplot.
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Its more that english departments have spent the last 3 decades deconstructing meta plots in story telling for the sole purpose of teaching their idiot and credulous students to not write any meta plot at all.

I sort of get the impulse. You should try and come up with something new that does not involve "no name farm boy becomes the chosen one, slays the dark lord and gets the girl." The problem is the reason these meta narratives are so ubiquitous is because they are a tried and true method for crafting a good story. And most of the morons getting churned out of liberal arts colleges are absolutely incapable of going off the reservation.

It does not stop them from trying though.
 
mindlessobserver said:
Its more that english departments have spent the last 3 decades deconstructing meta plots in story telling for the sole purpose of teaching their idiot and credulous students to not write any meta plot at all.

I sort of get the impulse. You should try and come up with something new that does not involve "no name farm boy becomes the chosen one, slays the dark lord and gets the girl." The problem is the reason these meta narratives are so ubiquitous is because they are a tried and true method for crafting a good story. And most of the morons getting churned out of liberal arts colleges are absolutely incapable of going off the reservation.

It does not stop them from trying though.
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Thing with the hero's journey is that it's not that that makes it work. It's the character development. Original vs. Disney Star Wars is a prime example of this. It might be a retread of the same old ideas but it does it well.

Luke Skywalker is basically some rando living in the arse end of nowhere who chances upon something of galaxy shattering importance, namely, R2-D2 and C-3PO and more importantly the message they have. He brings it to the weird old hermit who tells him these stories about his religion and how he can do something to make the galaxy a better place. Luke doesn't really care all that much but has no choice because someone just bombed his family's farm. So he has no choice but to go along, and he ends up mixing with these unsavoury characters. Smugglers. Gangsters. In the first film he's basically a millstone around Han and Obi-Wan and Chewie's neck because he doesn't have a clue about the existence of the Force or anything. He can vaguely slash at a drone with a light sabre but he doesn't have any real survival skills and has probably never fired a gun in his life. He's naive and a bit stupid. He goes along with saving Leia because he thinks he's the big hero, but everyone else basically treats him like a skivvie. He basically gets signed up to the raid on the Death Star as a redshirt to make up the numbers and lucks out at making THAT shot. In Empire Strikes Back he's a bit more capable but this has made him overconfident, like when he arseholes Yoda to go and take on Darth Vader because he thinks now he knows which end of his light sabre is the pointy one he can single handedly be the big hero. He's still naive and stupid at heart. The result of all this is that he gets his hand cut off and only just escapes alive, while Han and Leia get themselves captured by various bad guys trying to save him. It's only really in Return of the Jedi that he actually grows up and understands exactly what being a Jedi is all about.

Meanwhile, in Disney Star Wars, our protagonist is a Mary Sue who knows everything about the Force because she's the Emprah's granddaughter and is thus gifted with an I Win button. The Force is reduced from a mystical discipline that some people are more talented at than others but who anyone can study and empirically observe to basically congenital superpowers. She doesn't develop as a character because she doesn't need to; she has the I Win button all along.

When faced with shitty writing like that in mainstream pop culture, is it any wonder people resort to metaplot shite?
 
JuanButNotForgotten said:
View attachment 1689293

www.imdb.com

Samantha Wallschlaeger - IMDb

Samantha Wallschlaeger, Writer: Mass Effect: Andromeda
www.imdb.com www.imdb.com
>Mass Effect: Andromeda (Video Game) (writer)

It's like a birth in reverse - never gets better, always gets worse.
Click to expand...
Why the fuck do they need to fill the Lead Narrative designer role at this point? The story should be done, Brian probably finished it at the end of 2019. Unless this is a ME:A kind of situation where from the outside it looks like they're just polishing the game, while on the inside devs are huddled under their desks sobbing without a clue on how to actually finish the fucking game.

What an absolute disaster why can't Vampire actually get a competent team of people to make a decent game. If Swangsong didn't seem so fucking bland I would recommend people actually begin caring about that game instead.
 
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JuanButNotForgotten said:
View attachment 1689293

www.imdb.com

Samantha Wallschlaeger - IMDb

Samantha Wallschlaeger, Writer: Mass Effect: Andromeda
www.imdb.com www.imdb.com
>Mass Effect: Andromeda (Video Game) (writer)

It's like a birth in reverse - never gets better, always gets worse.
Click to expand...
Oh, it gets even better.

Samantha was part of the Twitter mob that got Chris Avellone kicked off of Bloodlines 2 earlier this year. Get a man fired then take his job. Pretty Shakespearean move.
archive.is

Samantha Wallschlaeger on Twitter: "I was lucky it ended at a brief m…

archived 20 Jun 2020 19:20:55 UTC
archive.is archive.is


And just to kill off any hopes you may have still had for this game, yes, she is a gender-special, yes, representation matters, and yes, you will play her ERP fapfiction and like it.

g0yv8yo0zw751.jpg

 
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