Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines: 2 - I want to believe, but...

[Dom Cruise]

So, I have a question, the world was supposed to have ended soon after Bloodlines and a new edition of Vampire that was an all new continuity came out, but now Bloodlines 2 is a direct sequel and the latest edition of the Vampire RPG returns to the old continuity, right?

 

[Adamska]

So, I have a question, the world was supposed to have ended soon after Bloodlines and a new edition of Vampire that was an all new continuity came out, but now Bloodlines 2 is a direct sequel and the latest edition of the Vampire RPG returns to the old continuity, right?

It's supporting 5e, which is pretty shit and goes off of V20. Also they kind of retconned gehenna and the other apocalypses in V20 by making it do a lot of bad things but not end the world.

 

[Keroruma]

Well it's not as bad as I thought it was. It's badish but given the fact humanity in V5 seems hard to cultivate with a hunger die basically working to fuck you over. Humanity might take a nosedive eating people on accident.

The main issue with V5 Humanity is that it is actually impossible to raise. The book guidelines are that if you jump through roleplaying hoops, the GM might let you increase it. For the low, low price of new Humanity rank times 10.

How much xp do you normally get, some of you might ask? And the answer... Is that going by the book guidelines... You get... 1xp per session.

 

[knightlautrec]

The main issue with V5 Humanity is that it is actually impossible to raise. The book guidelines are that if you jump through roleplaying hoops, the GM might let you increase it. For the low, low price of new Humanity rank times 10.

How much xp do you normally get, some of you might ask? And the answer... Is that going by the book guidelines... You get... 1xp per session.

Yeah, it's semi close to the original but with the cavaet that 1 XP is the base and good RP / demonstrations of knowledge learned or experience. You should be netting around 4-5 each week depending on progress. But yeah. Kinda bollocks but then V5 is a bit of a mess all around.

Humanity gain in VtM should be done in RP and be encouraged as difficult for a vampire to have a tenuous hold on via conflicts brought by a ST to tempt them or make them question their morality because inherent kindred nature kinda dictates you being a murderous asshole. BUT I disagree with a mechanic that fundamentally fucks with any person attempting to play a 'good' vampire just in gameplay. Storywise, super okay with a ST putting hard choice for a high humanity vampire via consequences or natural conflict because they can wrestle with the choice IC but forcing them to almost murder points via game mechanics? Poor RNG dictates at some point rolling a hunger die you're gonna have a frenzy failure and fuck yourself over. Unavoidable. I kinda disagree with taking the power away from a player if that makes sense. Now, Frenzy in original VtM isn't always a choice especially for dangerous situations, of course, but you have at least a grip on the hunger frenzy rolls by keeping yourself topped up and spending frugally. It's something a player *can* control unlike a fire threat or being in a dangerous situation. Just seems kind of a dick move. I understand they wanted to highlight the creeping dread of persistent hunger but it's a shitty random chance that seems more annoying than game bolstering.

The game mechanics of WoD were always there to bolster the story of the game and have a bit of a unknown when it came to success or failure, never to heavy hand dictate the actions of a character.

 

[Emperor Julian]

Holding onto your humanity/sense of self is often one of the most important facets of VTM some of the best moments in the game are built on either the fall, the redemption or simply the desperate attempts to hold on. Even playing Vampires on the Paths has shades of this, I remember the indignant disgust of a Harbinger of skulls when another pc's tzmisce boasted about being on a path within a year of embrace.

 

[Scarlett Johansson]

Beckett, for instance, had a sex scene in one of the spinoff novels.

Which novel

 

[wrangled tard]

The writers of V5 seem to actually be fans of the source material, it's just a shame that they were all "that guy" that would leave a pillow covering their groin and get a bit too excited about asking for more details when feeding.

 

[knightlautrec]

The writers of V5 seem to actually be fans of the source material, it's just a shame that they were all "that guy" that would leave a pillow covering their groin and get a bit too excited about asking for more details when feeding.

But being a fan of something and understanding it at its core is two different things. I can be a big fan of Star Trek - doesn't mean I'm qualified to write it. You need someone to write for that setting that is willing to take a long hard look at the source and understand the root of it and either reinterpret the good and drop the bad or take the spirit and make it different. Like Vampire the Requiem did. It kept the heart of VtM and made the dynamics different and interesting without the oppressive metaplot.

V5 dropped some bad but then dropped a ton of the good and offered no real alternatives. And some of it genuinely felt like they were righting some 'wrong side of history' things to push some agenda. Like the Tremere and the offshoot feminist house which...makes no sense. Tremeres have always counted a high amount of women in their ranks which makes me think that the writers just went 'old wizard boys club' kinda forgetting they weren't and passed over the fact that Assamites had a whole thing where they wouldn't embrace women???

I understand that one of the outsourced writers was The Gentleman Gamer (a huge VtM fan and lore person) who wrote the infamous Gay Black Muslim Brujah Anarch Rudi, who is semi based on a friend and while he explained in discord to someone on /tg/ that Rudi was meant to be a charismatic manipulator to the 'downtrodden' and 'unheard minorities' kinda like those SJW Liberal lip service types he doesn't come across that in text at all as the explanation of his character. When he explains it, it makes sense that hes using them but in the fluff context it felt like we were supposed to see Rudi as benevolent character. So there is a clear disconnect between what they intended and what it reads as.

 

[Emperor Julian]

But being a fan of something and understanding it at its core is two different things. I can be a big fan of Star Trek - doesn't mean I'm qualified to write it. You need someone to write for that setting that is willing to take a long hard look at the source and understand the root of it and either reinterpret the good and drop the bad or take the spirit and make it different. Like Vampire the Requiem did. It kept the heart of VtM and made the dynamics different and interesting without the oppressive metaplot.

V5 dropped some bad but then dropped a ton of the good and offered no real alternatives. And some of it genuinely felt like they were righting some 'wrong side of history' things to push some agenda. Like the Tremere and the offshoot feminist house which...makes no sense. Tremeres have always counted a high amount of women in their ranks which makes me think that the writers just went 'old wizard boys club' kinda forgetting they weren't and passed over the fact that Assamites had a whole thing where they wouldn't embrace women???

I understand that one of the outsourced writers was The Gentleman Gamer (a huge VtM fan and lore person) who wrote the infamous Gay Black Muslim Brujah Anarch Rudi, who is semi based on a friend and while he explained in discord to someone on /tg/ that Rudi was meant to be a charismatic manipulator to the 'downtrodden' and 'unheard minorities' kinda like those SJW Liberal lip service types he doesn't come across that in text at all as the explanation of his character. When he explains it, it makes sense that hes using them but in the fluff context it felt like we were supposed to see Rudi as benevolent character. So there is a clear disconnect between what they intended and what it reads as.

Their's no reason the Anarch resurgance cannot be a valid plot gameplay choice-jn fact I actually approve of the idea. There big mistake was to try an integrate it into modern political tropes. Something 3rd got very very right was that Vampiric social concearns do not integrate with human ones because you drink their blood, turn them into monsters and rule in the shadows. If humans realize realize this they will burn you out-doesnt matter how much you respect their pronouns.
The Anarchs are usually more pro-human and human in themselves but they're not strictly more humaine than the Carmarilla, or even better for Vampiric living standards. Whatever else can be said of the Cams you can effectivly live a fairly normal unlife with minimal obligations to sect. It's probably worth noting the Carmilla doesnt really care what you do as long as you don't break 7 fairly simple and reasonable laws. Likewise the dynamic was totally fucked byt the removal of the Sabbat since their where no true monsters or corrupted revolution to contrast themselves with.
A sub-sect of the Tremere could be matriarcal pagan types but this should not integrate with modern femminism. More a sort of Coven of witches/evil Verbenna types .
Rudi could work if that's how you come at him from. Their's no reason for an idealistic Anarch vampir note having those views on human society but in the Vampiric world the only real privilidge is raw power and clan. If anything Eldars would probably be confused at some guy bitching at them about Patriarchy when they've got a body count in the thousands.

In the end their where a lot of good idea's but the execution stank.

 

[knightlautrec]

The Anarch are usually more pro-human and human in themselves but they're not strictly more humaine than the Carmarilla, or even better for Vampiric living standards.

And that's the crux of it. I think the writers forgot that that the Anarchs are as manipulative as elders if even more insidious in tactics. A dissatisfied fledgling runs away to the Anarchs and they're certainly not gonna tell them the reality of their aims - they're just gonna confirm the fledglings worries about the Cams and score themselves a loyal new convert who is now integrated in a 'nobody understands you' sympathetic way. It's pure calculated manipulation by, ironically, older Anarchs who need foot soldiers.

But v5 I think missed the mark tone wise or forgot completely how brutal Anarchs can be. And if anything they're the unreliable and somewhat wild element NOW that is fucking with the Cams since, like you said, the Sabbat are not there to be a foil antagonists. But I can bet like 10 bucks some of the writers in V5 think Anarchs are the default good guys. I always find people who aggressively don't like Camarilla in the games and do like Anarchs completely miss the mark and don't have any clue about the lore. They are literally the same coin.

 

[Techpriest]

 

[Bryan Dunn]

I really dislike the fact that they added so little clans to this game compared to the last game. I mean at least give us the option of new clans. I would've loved playing Clan Lasombra and Ravnos. Ravnos would've been awesome

 

[Emperor Julian]

I really dislike the fact that they added so little clans to this game compared to the last game. I mean at least give us the option of new clans. I would've loved playing Clan Lasombra and Ravnos. Ravnos would've been awesome

Clan Ravnos' mechanics would be very difficult to implement without being totally broke same with Tzmisce. I suppose you could dumb down their clan power but were's the fun in that?

That said Lasombra, Assamites and followers of Set would be pretty straightforward.

 

[Bryan Dunn]

Clan Ravnos' mechanics would be very difficult to implement without being totally broke same with Tzmisce. I suppose you could dumb down their clan power but were's the fun in that?

That said Lasombra, Assamites and followers of Set would be pretty straightforward.

I just want to play as a gypsie illusionist ravnos and just go nuts with it lol.

 

[Julias_Seizure]

The tranny thing doesnt really bother me because im pretty sure itll just be a character creation option and maybe one or two NPCs

"Punching up instead of down" bit of a red flag maybe just poor phrasing but an rpg should be designed to let you punch in whatever direction you like.

"Taking political stances on what we think is right and wrong" big big red flag nothing wrong with putting some political shit in games as long as the devs opinion of whats right is subtle and you have the option to completely disregard it without getting preached at for it the entire game

Fingers crossed that they dont pull an outer worlds and cram it so full of preachy faggotry that the only way to have fun is to act like a complete psychopath just to bask in the devs disaproval

 

[YourMommasBackstory]

VtM: coteries of New York was a disappointment for me, linear railroads instead of branching plot, no team work with your coterie members, you just do individual quests for each so they could help you once, tho some quest a worth reading, and raw and unfinished game even for a VN standards. game doesn’t even have multiple savings so you could check all routes and after finale your save file gets deleted automatically. if you play for a second time, you cant auto skip text you’ve already read in a first playthrought.

Sad that it was a first VtM game in a decade, and it doesn‘t give a faith in bloodlines 2. If they can’t make decent visual novel with all the features you expect from games of this genre, its hard to believe Paradox has standarts for bigger games.

 

[Julias_Seizure]

To be fair there were some parts of the original that they do kinda have a point on as much as i hate to admit it. Like when every single outfit if your playing a female character is as skimpy as possible and thats the only option it is a little annoying that its every single one.

That and the bit with the twins where one of them was just casually making fun of the other for getting raped by their dad was going a bit far and could have been handled a bit better.

Im more worried that theyre going to do it in a preachy way where after doing a toned down equivilent of the dad rape bit spell out for you exactly how fucked up your sopposed to think it is or even worse completely cut out all that kind of dark shit all together because it may be offensive

 

[HeyYou]

That and the bit with the twins where one of them was just casually making fun of the other for getting raped by their dad was going a bit far and could have been handled a bit better.

That would completely destroy the point of the character. The fact that Therese believes that her father loved her and feels betrayed by Jeanette sleeping with him (despite Jeanette being HERSELF) is the blindside reveal of just exactly why Therese is a perfect Malkavian. She's not babbling about prophecies or breaking the fourth wall, she has a very relatable and tragic mental illness that causes her to view something horrifying as ultimately a good thing. Jeanette being a coping mechanism gone rogue explains why she's so upfront about their father being a piece of shit who raped them. It's a part of Therese that's trying to give her a (very nasty) wake up call about what her father was really like, or even what she was really like. Yes, it's absurd, but that's the point of being a Malkavian. If you changed it to be more "respectful", it wouldn't feel like VtM. Nothing about this setting is respectful or grounded. If the Therese subplot was completely grounded, it wouldn't exist, because it's completely inaccurate to DID.

 

[FernandoPooTragedy]

That would completely destroy the point of the character. The fact that Therese believes that her father loved her and feels betrayed by Jeanette sleeping with him (despite Jeanette being HERSELF) is the blindside reveal of just exactly why Therese is a perfect Malkavian. She's not babbling about prophecies or breaking the fourth wall, she has a very relatable and tragic mental illness that causes her to view something horrifying as ultimately a good thing. Jeanette being a coping mechanism gone rogue explains why she's so upfront about their father being a piece of shit who raped them. It's a part of Therese that's trying to give her a (very nasty) wake up call about what her father was really like, or even what she was really like. Yes, it's absurd, but that's the point of being a Malkavian. If you changed it to be more "respectful", it wouldn't feel like VtM. Nothing about this setting is respectful or grounded. If the Therese subplot was completely grounded, it wouldn't exist, because it's completely inaccurate to DID.

Exactly. That's the entire point.

 

[FunPosting101]

From what I've seen of this game in the trailer, it seems like it would be better to just replay the first game instead of bothering with this one. That combat footage was unbelievably shitty.

To be fair there were some parts of the original that they do kinda have a point on as much as i hate to admit it. Like when every single outfit if your playing a female character is as skimpy as possible and thats the only option it is a little annoying that its every single one.

The actual good solution to this is to have multiple outfit choices available regardless of sex, ethnicity, clan allegiance etc. What they might do instead, like good little woketards, is remove or dramatically tone down any and all possible sexy outfit choices in the game entirely.