Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines: 2 - I want to believe, but...

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Dom Cruise said:
I'm fine with a delay because I want the game to actually be good, but I do still hope it will release sometime next year.
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Same. I'd rather have a working game than an early game.

Tbh, the thin blood and gender stuff doesn't bother me. The new edition of the tabletop has made being a thin blood way more interesting. For anyone who doesn't know, they're no longer the weakling harbingers of the apocalypse/hunted down. They have various advantages, such as being resistant to a lot of clean weaknesses. Some of them can even daywalk. They're way more active politically as well.

As for the gender stuff... if anything, that just pays greater homage to the Tabletop game. Sascha Vykos, anyone? Like, if you have an issue with queering the fuck out of vampires, you shouldn't be playing Vampire the Masquerade in the first place. Sure, the original Bloodlines didn't really give off that vibe, but it was definitely made to appeal to mass, Bush-era audience. I feel like if you're not familiar with the source material, it can be alienating. But if you are, it's just cute.

What I am worried about is a) Not being able to play Gangrel or Nosferatu, which is some BULLSHIT and b) how much they are going to incorporate other aspects of the new edition. Like, the second Inquisition and destruction of the pyramid was stuff I liked, but the actual game play is...uh... Sorry, but I play VtM for the story. I don't like having to pause constantly for bajillion checks every time I so much as blink. Their changes to the hunger/rouse systems just get in the way of the actual role playing.

I'm staying optimistic, even without my favorite clan being playable.
 
FernandoPooTragedy said:
Same. I'd rather have a working game than an early game.

Tbh, the thin blood and gender stuff doesn't bother me. The new edition of the tabletop has made being a thin blood way more interesting. For anyone who doesn't know, they're no longer the weakling harbingers of the apocalypse/hunted down. They have various advantages, such as being resistant to a lot of clean weaknesses. Some of them can even daywalk. They're way more active politically as well.

As for the gender stuff... if anything, that just pays greater homage to the Tabletop game. Sascha Vykos, anyone? Like, if you have an issue with queering the fuck out of vampires, you shouldn't be playing Vampire the Masquerade in the first place. Sure, the original Bloodlines didn't really give off that vibe, but it was definitely made to appeal to mass, Bush-era audience. I feel like if you're not familiar with the source material, it can be alienating. But if you are, it's just cute.

What I am worried about is a) Not being able to play Gangrel or Nosferatu, which is some BULLSHIT and b) how much they are going to incorporate other aspects of the new edition. Like, the second Inquisition and destruction of the pyramid was stuff I liked, but the actual game play is...uh... Sorry, but I play VtM for the story. I don't like having to pause constantly for bajillion checks every time I so much as blink. Their changes to the hunger/rouse systems just get in the way of the actual role playing.

I'm staying optimistic, even without my favorite clan being playable.
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In V5 thinbloods are just generic Mary Sues, it's never fun playing with one. Don't be too disappointed about Nosferatu though, you'll be able to play it in 6 different instalments of $9.99.
 
FernandoPooTragedy said:
Same. I'd rather have a working game than an early game.

Tbh, the thin blood and gender stuff doesn't bother me. The new edition of the tabletop has made being a thin blood way more interesting. For anyone who doesn't know, they're no longer the weakling harbingers of the apocalypse/hunted down. They have various advantages, such as being resistant to a lot of clean weaknesses. Some of them can even daywalk. They're way more active politically as well.

As for the gender stuff... if anything, that just pays greater homage to the Tabletop game. Sascha Vykos, anyone? Like, if you have an issue with queering the fuck out of vampires, you shouldn't be playing Vampire the Masquerade in the first place. Sure, the original Bloodlines didn't really give off that vibe, but it was definitely made to appeal to mass, Bush-era audience. I feel like if you're not familiar with the source material, it can be alienating. But if you are, it's just cute.

What I am worried about is a) Not being able to play Gangrel or Nosferatu, which is some BULLSHIT and b) how much they are going to incorporate other aspects of the new edition. Like, the second Inquisition and destruction of the pyramid was stuff I liked, but the actual game play is...uh... Sorry, but I play VtM for the story. I don't like having to pause constantly for bajillion checks every time I so much as blink. Their changes to the hunger/rouse systems just get in the way of the actual role playing.

I'm staying optimistic, even without my favorite clan being playable.
Click to expand...

Yes, if ever there was a context in which the gender stuff makes sense Vampire the Masquerade would be it, it's fine when there's some historical precedence for stuff like that as there is with the franchise.

I'm definitely not comfortable with saying there should never be any LGBT content in games, no matter what.
 
FernandoPooTragedy said:
Same. I'd rather have a working game than an early game.

Tbh, the thin blood and gender stuff doesn't bother me. The new edition of the tabletop has made being a thin blood way more interesting. For anyone who doesn't know, they're no longer the weakling harbingers of the apocalypse/hunted down. They have various advantages, such as being resistant to a lot of clean weaknesses. Some of them can even daywalk. They're way more active politically as well.

As for the gender stuff... if anything, that just pays greater homage to the Tabletop game. Sascha Vykos, anyone? Like, if you have an issue with queering the fuck out of vampires, you shouldn't be playing Vampire the Masquerade in the first place. Sure, the original Bloodlines didn't really give off that vibe, but it was definitely made to appeal to mass, Bush-era audience. I feel like if you're not familiar with the source material, it can be alienating. But if you are, it's just cute.

What I am worried about is a) Not being able to play Gangrel or Nosferatu, which is some BULLSHIT and b) how much they are going to incorporate other aspects of the new edition. Like, the second Inquisition and destruction of the pyramid was stuff I liked, but the actual game play is...uh... Sorry, but I play VtM for the story. I don't like having to pause constantly for bajillion checks every time I so much as blink. Their changes to the hunger/rouse systems just get in the way of the actual role playing.

I'm staying optimistic, even without my favorite clan being playable.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure Gangrel are coming in the werewolf-themed DLC.
Not having Nosferatu is... understandable. Nosferatu clan weakness means you basically have to do a crapton of work for a very niche audience. If anything is a DLC material, it's Nosferatu and Malkavians.
I'm sad Lasombra aren't playable. They are in the Camarilla now, so what gives?!
 
A bit OT here, but another VtM game should be released soon
I'm personally not fond of it's art, but looks like a promising visual novel
 
One thing I'm not sure on: Is this based on the new edition of Vampire the Masquerade, or is it based on the classic game like the original? Haven't heard too much about concepts introduced in the newer game being in this one (like the Sabbat flocking to the Middle East and the Second Inquisition).
 
The Demon Pimp of Razgriz said:
One thing I'm not sure on: Is this based on the new edition of Vampire the Masquerade, or is it based on the classic game like the original? Haven't heard too much about concepts introduced in the newer game being in this one (like the Sabbat flocking to the Middle East and the Second Inquisition).
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Check out Outstar's vids on it. Apparently the Second Inquisition is going to be a big part of the plot or something.
 
Keroruma said:
I'm pretty sure Gangrel are coming in the werewolf-themed DLC.
Not having Nosferatu is... understandable. Nosferatu clan weakness means you basically have to do a crapton of work for a very niche audience. If anything is a DLC material, it's Nosferatu and Malkavians.
I'm sad Lasombra aren't playable. They are in the Camarilla now, so what gives?!
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The answer is: $$$$$$ it's all about getting players to shell out as much dlc money as possible.

Gangrel are my faves, and yeah, while they are mostly independent/anarch now, they're still a main clan and they were part of the original game.

OT but I have been having trouble re-installing the mods for the original bloodlines game (new computer). I install or replace the game files as I used to, but the game just plays vanilla. Anyone have any ideas?
 
The Demon Pimp of Razgriz said:
One thing I'm not sure on: Is this based on the new edition of Vampire the Masquerade, or is it based on the classic game like the original? Haven't heard too much about concepts introduced in the newer game being in this one (like the Sabbat flocking to the Middle East and the Second Inquisition).
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I'm sorry, man, it's heavily V5 based. I don't even care that they chose a literally who anti-goobergate whiner as one of the writers (especially considering that at least Mitsoda is working on it), because their explanation that the main story and its decisions are going to nuanced is fair and if people expected them to have absolutely no gay people that's just impractical. I do care that they're going off of what I consider shit lore.
 
The Demon Pimp of Razgriz said:
One thing I'm not sure on: Is this based on the new edition of Vampire the Masquerade, or is it based on the classic game like the original? Haven't heard too much about concepts introduced in the newer game being in this one (like the Sabbat flocking to the Middle East and the Second Inquisition).
Click to expand...

Sad to say this, but it's going to be based on V5, the absolute worst edition of the game.
 
FernandoPooTragedy said:
Same. I'd rather have a working game than an early game.

Tbh, the thin blood and gender stuff doesn't bother me. The new edition of the tabletop has made being a thin blood way more interesting. For anyone who doesn't know, they're no longer the weakling harbingers of the apocalypse/hunted down. They have various advantages, such as being resistant to a lot of clean weaknesses. Some of them can even daywalk. They're way more active politically as well.

As for the gender stuff... if anything, that just pays greater homage to the Tabletop game. Sascha Vykos, anyone? Like, if you have an issue with queering the fuck out of vampires, you shouldn't be playing Vampire the Masquerade in the first place. Sure, the original Bloodlines didn't really give off that vibe, but it was definitely made to appeal to mass, Bush-era audience. I feel like if you're not familiar with the source material, it can be alienating. But if you are, it's just cute.

What I am worried about is a) Not being able to play Gangrel or Nosferatu, which is some BULLSHIT and b) how much they are going to incorporate other aspects of the new edition. Like, the second Inquisition and destruction of the pyramid was stuff I liked, but the actual game play is...uh... Sorry, but I play VtM for the story. I don't like having to pause constantly for bajillion checks every time I so much as blink. Their changes to the hunger/rouse systems just get in the way of the actual role playing.

I'm staying optimistic, even without my favorite clan being playable.
Click to expand...

Doesn't really matter if they made thinbloods beefier power wise - that wasn't the intended purpose of them. Being a thinblood was supposed to hard and on the fringes. You play thinblood for a challenge. Not to be an almost daywalker Special Sue with some better powers than full bloods. And then v5 put so much focus on playing them that it was ridiculously heavy handed. It was obvious they were the intended focus but they are such a limiting character for knowledge and generation.

Just like V5 gave the impression they were trying to paint the Anarchs as the intended sect to play instead of the Cams (because institutions baaaad). The fact they backed off the Sabbat so they aren't truly playable means they didn't know what sort of conflict to put into it. They wanted to channel first edition with personal horror by not having such a focus on politics and sects but forgetting that A) Vampire the Requiem managed to do that already and did it very well and B) that the many bulk of veterans who play VtM liked the politics and the intrigue. Doing away with that and offering no alternatives is just stupid and crippling to the possibilities of what you could play.

It's nice SOME people are happy to play thinbloods daywalkers fighting for Anarchs but for the bulk of us? We would like the full options to play the game and v5 doesn't offer that. The fluff in the book is awful, (can I feed my baby vampire blood???) The tone of it is shitty and lacks nuance, they captured no spirit of the books in style and frankly, delivered a product most of us feel cheated to have bought. Fuck V5.

As to the gender stuff, you're semi right and wrong about them being 'queer'. Vampires in VtM via the Word of God do not feel much when banging. Hell if you're on a path, you can't even get it up. Sex isn't the motivator for going to bed - getting blood is. The point is, they don't give a fuck so applying really arbitrary 'gay' labels is pretty fucking stupid. Blood is weird sex/food for vampires and when played like that, it gives it a darker connotation to stalking people in the night. But Vampires aren't particularly hung up on gender especially when you're fucking dead and the Cam still shake for male and kiss hand for female in greeting which means most are fairly secure in their dead gendered husks. In earlier editions fleshcrafting to other genders is still seen as fucking weird and a bit abnormal. See: Doktor Totentanz. Sascha Vykos is also seen as fucking weird because Tzimmie are fucking weird and on purpose alien.
 
knightlautrec said:
As to the gender stuff, you're semi right and wrong about them being 'queer'. Vampires in VtM via the Word of God do not feel much when banging. Hell if you're on a path, you can't even get it up. Sex isn't the motivator for going to bed - getting blood is. The point is, they don't give a fuck so applying really arbitrary 'gay' labels is pretty fucking stupid. Blood is weird sex/food for vampires and when played like that, it gives it a darker connotation to stalking people in the night. But Vampires aren't particularly hung up on gender especially when you're fucking dead and the Cam still shake for male and kiss hand for female in greeting which means most are fairly secure in their dead gendered husks. In earlier editions fleshcrafting to other genders is still seen as fucking weird and a bit abnormal. See: Doktor Totentanz. Sascha Vykos is also seen as fucking weird because Tzimmie are fucking weird and on purpose alien.
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All that you said about sex was the case...until V5. Now, apparently, Vampires are capable of having and, indeed, enjoying sex like a normal human.
 
The Demon Pimp of Razgriz said:
All that you said about sex was the case...until V5. Now, apparently, Vampires are capable of having and, indeed, enjoying sex like a normal human.
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That...doesn't make much sense from what we know about vampire physiology. I always took the view in old VtM vampires who were high in humanity (7+) could engage in sex (cuz you can flush and do it) but any pleasure they got was purely psychological - IE, they're remembering how it felt when they were human and that's being channeled into that.

I read V5 but I don't recall the sex stuff. Doesn't surprise me. If they didn't understand the style and point of the original VtM then they certainly didn't get the point of why Vampires embody bloodsucking pseudo sexual predators without them getting the pleasure from sex.
 
knightlautrec said:
That...doesn't make much sense from what we know about vampire physiology. I always took the view in old VtM vampires who were high in humanity (7+) could engage in sex (cuz you can flush and do it) but any pleasure they got was purely psychological - IE, they're remembering how it felt when they were human and that's being channeled into that.

I read V5 but I don't recall the sex stuff. Doesn't surprise me. If they didn't understand the style and point of the original VtM then they certainly didn't get the point of why Vampires embody bloodsucking pseudo sexual predators without them getting the pleasure from sex.
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Also, in terms of the old stuff, I am defining "queer" as beyond just fucking and just using it as a word encapsulating the LGBTBBQLMFAO+×÷+-××× sphere. But a lot of lore has a ton of same sex, polyamorous romantic relationships that, by virtue of their physiology, are not sexual but are romantic. And of course all the gender bending stuff.

There are some instances of vamp sex aside from Jeanette in the old version. Beckett, for instance, had a sex scene in one of the spinoff novels.
 
knightlautrec said:
I read V5 but I don't recall the sex stuff. Doesn't surprise me. If they didn't understand the style and point of the original VtM then they certainly didn't get the point of why Vampires embody bloodsucking pseudo sexual predators without them getting the pleasure from sex.
Click to expand...

Apparently the change was a really big deal. The whole "vampires can't really have sex unless under very specific conditions and even then you can't enjoy it " thing was always controversial among the fans. Vampires now can have sex and even physically enjoy it (even without the Kiss, though biting made it even better), though it requires a high humanity score.

Edit: Quoting from the V5 Corebook:

Humanity 7
...
- You cannot have sexual intercourse per se, but you can fake it by winning a Dexterity + Charisma test if you wish (Difficulty equals your partner’s Composure or Wits).

Humanity 8

You still feel pain for the hurts you and your kind inflict. Your human guise remains passable; the memories remain fresh, or new instincts for community spring up like green shoots from your long-dead soul.

Humanity 8 vampires can appear human in other regards:
- You can roll two dice for the Rouse Check to use Blush of Life and take the highest result.
- Blush of Life allows you to have sexual intercourse and perhaps even enjoy it.
- Blush of Life allows you to digest and taste wine.
- You can rise from day-sleep up to an hour before
sunset if you wish.

Humanity 10

Humans with this score are rare, and the vampires who have achieved it even more so. At this level, mortals and Kindred alike lead a saintly, veritably ascetic life, tightly controlled by ethics and principles supporting this fragile condition. The merest selfish deed or thought is enough to topple this state of grace.

Humanity 10 vampires can appear human in otherregards:
- Blush of Life is not necessary, because you appear as a pale mortal in good health.
- You heal Superficial damage as a mortal, in addition to vampiric mending.
- You can taste, eat, and digest food as if human.
- You can stay awake during the day as if human, though you do not lose your normal need for sleep.
- The rate of sunlight damage you take is halved.
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Apparently high humanity allows you to eat like a king, fuck bitches and even stand out in the sun for a few extra seconds
 
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The Demon Pimp of Razgriz said:
Apparently the change was a really big deal. The whole "vampires can't really have sex unless under very specific conditions and even then you can't enjoy it " thing was always controversial among the fans. Vampires now can have sex and even physically enjoy it (even without the Kiss, though biting made it even better), though it requires a high humanity score.
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Fucking horny degenerates.

Edit: Quoting from the V5 Corebook:



Apparently high humanity allows you to eat like a king, fuck bitches and even stand out in the sun for a few extra seconds
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This shit defeats the entire purpose of being a vampire. High humanity basically turns you into a ginger? How horrifying, I'd rather burst into flames.
 
INVCTS said:
Paradox is a huge red flag for me. They seem so used to the grand strategy monetization model of releasing a large, but desolate game and then releasing a stream of DLC until the game is actually good, but costs 200 dollars.
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There was a time I mocked Train simulator autists for getting suckered into paying top dollar for fake model trains again and again, but then I found my model train set, its called Crusader Kings and I hate myself.
 
FernandoPooTragedy said:
Also, in terms of the old stuff, I am defining "queer" as beyond just fucking and just using it as a word encapsulating the LGBTBBQLMFAO+×÷+-××× sphere. But a lot of lore has a ton of same sex, polyamorous romantic relationships that, by virtue of their physiology, are not sexual but are romantic. And of course all the gender bending stuff.

There are some instances of vamp sex aside from Jeanette in the old version. Beckett, for instance, had a sex scene in one of the spinoff novels.
Click to expand...

And I get it, but I hate to class it in the shitty Alphabet Soup of today's labelling because it takes away from the tone and purpose of the game. It personally bothers me to place modern terms in VtM in general. The whole point is to be timeless and old ass vampires could care less about dumb liberal arts buzzwords - they just wanna sup on their prettiest blood doll in peace.


The Demon Pimp of Razgriz said:
Apparently the change was a really big deal. The whole "vampires can't really have sex unless under very specific conditions and even then you can't enjoy it " thing was always controversial among the fans. Vampires now can have sex and even physically enjoy it (even without the Kiss, though biting made it even better), though it requires a high humanity score.

Edit: Quoting from the V5 Corebook:



Apparently high humanity allows you to eat like a king, fuck bitches and even stand out in the sun for a few extra seconds
Click to expand...

Well it's not as bad as I thought it was. It's badish but given the fact humanity in V5 seems hard to cultivate with a hunger die basically working to fuck you over. Humanity might take a nosedive eating people on accident.
 
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