Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines: 2 - I want to believe, but...

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I'd like to be optimistic about the game if only because Avellone and Mitsoda are attached to it, but:
  1. Have they said what Chris Avellone's role is yet? He's pretty much become a professional consultant for the last few years now, where he'll write a character or two and give some notes, so I've learned not to get too excited when seeing his name attached to something now.
  2. The last major game Brian Mitsoda made was Dead State, which I thought was kinda... dull and joyless. From what I remember, the development for it was a chaotic mess and a disappointment that pretty much killed DoubleBear before it got off the ground, so that could've been why the game ended up so mediocre.
 
I am not feeling optimistic about this. There's a graveyard of games that get announced and then just slowly fade away, and I don't really know how much mainstream interest a sequel would really have. Hell, we still don't even have Bannerlord yet. (:_(
 
On reflection I can tolerate a certain degree of SJW antics as long as they don't shit the bed. The only thing I'm really anxious about that you're playing a unclanned thin blood with a unique discipline because thin bloods are boring mary sue shit.
 
Most of all of the Western remakes/long-awaited sequels are shit that just slaps the fans of original. Why the hell I was even happy and exited about VTMB 2 - just to know that the studio making it is a bunch of nobodies with no RPG expirience, writers went full sjw and call the first game "masculine power fantasy uhhh so toxic we'll make it BETTER" and one of them is responsible for god awful game ""journalism"".
Fuck my life, sorry for ranting, but I've waited this game for so long.


At least now I passionately DON'T want the sequel to Arcanum.
 
Most of all of the Western remakes/long-awaited sequels are shit that just slaps the fans of original. Why the hell I was even happy and exited about VTMB 2 - just to know that the studio making it is a bunch of nobodies with no RPG expirience, writers went full sjw and call the first game "masculine power fantasy uhhh so toxic we'll make it BETTER" and one of them is responsible for god awful game ""journalism"".
Fuck my life, sorry for ranting, but I've waited this game for so long.


At least now I passionately DON'T want the sequel to Arcanum.

Implying someone gives a flying fuck for Arcanum. Also, I do love this "slaps fans", heres a funny thing you can never please those people. If the devs do it their own way, fans will cry virgin tears how its ruined, they do it everything down to the precise letter, well fans will cry how its pandering and the devs arent doing anything original
 
Implying someone gives a flying fuck for Arcanum.
That will be me. And all those people who keep making patches and modes.
Not the large bunch of people, tho.
you can never please those people
I would be happy with competent story and plot that doesn't fuck up the lore or beloved characters. I think most of the people would be fine with that.
If the devs do it their own way, fans will cry virgin tears how its ruined, they do it everything down to the precise letter, well fans will cry how its pandering and the devs arent doing anything original
I think that's it's a real minority of the fans. Most vocal, yes. Not majority.
 
The last time a game's developers Twitter accounts were full of rambling about misgendering, pronouns, and "punching up" we got Mass Effect Andromeda.

just sayin
 
Implying someone gives a flying fuck for Arcanum. Also, I do love this "slaps fans", heres a funny thing you can never please those people. If the devs do it their own way, fans will cry virgin tears how its ruined, they do it everything down to the precise letter, well fans will cry how its pandering and the devs arent doing anything original
This reminded me of this particular quote from Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw of Zero Punctuation fame. The quote is as follows:

Ben Croshaw said:
Maybe if the original creators of something don't want to continue it, then you should listen to them. Because otherwise you're only making it to please the fans, and why would you want to do anything for fans? I mean, I'm a Silent Hill fan, and I've just spent a whole review whining like a broken motor. Fans are clingy, complaining dipshits who will never, ever be grateful for any concession you make. The moment you shut out their shrill, tremulous voices, the happier you'll be for it.

It's a solid advice in general, I believe. People who have a really close connection to something that's nostalgic to them will pick every single nit in your game if you decide to remake their most favourite game ever, even if the "original creators are hesitant" is non-existent (or even if original creators are the ones developing the remake). The smallest detail not being the very same as the original's will make them declare your game bad. Gamedevs should follow their actual vision and game design documents of the game, not bend the knee to people who have nostalgic goggles on. Even if they do bend, the fans will likely find things to dislike in the game. It's usually better to actually make the game the way you envision it, rather than have a mishmash of things just to try to pander to fans. If your game is good, it will sell. If it's decent, but unremarkable, then the people not familiar with the original will enjoy it, maybe even become interested in the prior installments, while the fans will have their old stuff. If it's abhorrent even to non-fans, it will fail miserably. We've seen terrible remakes of games fail because they could neither attract a new audience, nor appeal to people familiar with the franchise.

My point is, basically, the fans will rarely immediately accept something new, because they have a close connection to the old originals. You shouldn't let that discourage you entirely from doing something different in an already established universe (at least not "dismantle everything and start over" different like, say, Star Wars nowadays, unless it's some sort of parallel universe, in my personal opinion, this is much more acceptable).
 
I'd like to be optimistic about the game if only because Avellone and Mitsoda are attached to it, but:
  1. Have they said what Chris Avellone's role is yet? He's pretty much become a professional consultant for the last few years now, where he'll write a character or two and give some notes, so I've learned not to get too excited when seeing his name attached to something now.
  2. The last major game Brian Mitsoda made was Dead State, which I thought was kinda... dull and joyless. From what I remember, the development for it was a chaotic mess and a disappointment that pretty much killed DoubleBear before it got off the ground, so that could've been why the game ended up so mediocre.
The same Mitsoda who said they should punch up and not down? Game is gonna be dead in the water -- well, it would be if jackasses hadn't jumped to pre-order it like massive faggots.

They should scrap everyone, hire Polacks - the actual Polish people, but should hire /pol/ for Malkavian dialogue - for cheap and give Avellone creative control with an experienced producer by his side.
 
They should scrap everyone, hire Polacks - the actual Polish people, but should hire /pol/ for Malkavian dialogue - for cheap and give Avellone creative control with an experienced producer by his side.

Because Polaks suuuuure can write good shit.
 
Did you even read what I said? Rhetorical, you obviously didn't: Avellone would have creative control. The Polacks are there for cheap labor.

Pay attention.

Okay, but wont the game turn out to be crap if they take polacks for cheap labor, since it means they can just hire idiots who can barely write code? Also, Avellone is the last guy Id give creative control too knowing what type of pre-madonna he can be.
 
Okay, but wont the game turn out to be crap if they take polacks for cheap labor, since it means they can just hire idiots who can barely write code? Also, Avellone is the last guy Id give creative control too knowing what type of pre-madonna he can be.
They're already hiring idiots that can barely write code, they might as well go for cheap.

And Avellone behaves himself when there's an appropriate producer cracking the whip.
 
Does he now? Cause I heard the guy is pretty much impossible to work with due to his "my way or the highway" attitude
And I've heard he was the most professional out of Obsidian considering the bullshit that goes on there. Get him a proper producer and not some little bitch like Sawyer and he'll behave.

Avellone had seniority in Obsidian which is why he got away with it, even then it didn't get him a reliable paycheck.
 
This reminded me of this particular quote from Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw of Zero Punctuation fame. The quote is as follows:



It's a solid advice in general, I believe. People who have a really close connection to something that's nostalgic to them will pick every single nit in your game if you decide to remake their most favourite game ever, even if the "original creators are hesitant" is non-existent (or even if original creators are the ones developing the remake). The smallest detail not being the very same as the original's will make them declare your game bad. Gamedevs should follow their actual vision and game design documents of the game, not bend the knee to people who have nostalgic goggles on. Even if they do bend, the fans will likely find things to dislike in the game. It's usually better to actually make the game the way you envision it, rather than have a mishmash of things just to try to pander to fans. If your game is good, it will sell. If it's decent, but unremarkable, then the people not familiar with the original will enjoy it, maybe even become interested in the prior installments, while the fans will have their old stuff. If it's abhorrent even to non-fans, it will fail miserably. We've seen terrible remakes of games fail because they could neither attract a new audience, nor appeal to people familiar with the franchise.

My point is, basically, the fans will rarely immediately accept something new, because they have a close connection to the old originals. You shouldn't let that discourage you entirely from doing something different in an already established universe (at least not "dismantle everything and start over" different like, say, Star Wars nowadays, unless it's some sort of parallel universe, in my personal opinion, this is much more acceptable).

A certain subset of Fans will always hate a remake or sequel that comes too long down the road from the original, true. But what would upset people broadly is not change itself but rather change that fundamentally alters what the game is and what its themes are. Anyone remember that FPS game they made for XCOM? XCOM: The Bureau? No of course not. XCOM is a turn based squad combat strategy game based off of Tabletop combat games like Warhammer. its not an FPS. Nobody wanted an XCOM FPS. Nobody bought an XCOM FPS, and nobody remembers The Bureau. They do however remember XCOM Enemy Unknown that released a few months prior because that was an XCOM game. In that case you had a betrayal of the games fundamental structure, akin to trying to turn the Civilization games into an open Role Play game. The built in fans will not buy it, and will not generate the necessary buzz to attract new fans to the series. Which often seems to be the goal of these huge redesigns of Games. Getting a "larger audience" (Read, attract the Wamyn and the woke millenial).

In the case of narrative games like RPG's you run into the same problem if you fundamentally upend the basic lore and story telling dynamics fundamental to that game. Lets take a fairly woke modern RPG, Horizon Zero Dawn as an example here. The story is about motherhood, rebirth, and a female protagonist. If Horizon 2 is about a Male to Female transexual on a quest to bash the fash, everyone will lose their shit and not buy it either.
 
A certain subset of Fans will always hate a remake or sequel that comes too long down the road from the original, true. But what would upset people broadly is not change itself but rather change that fundamentally alters what the game is and what its themes are. Anyone remember that FPS game they made for XCOM? XCOM: The Bureau? No of course not. XCOM is a turn based squad combat strategy game based off of Tabletop combat games like Warhammer. its not an FPS. Nobody wanted an XCOM FPS. Nobody bought an XCOM FPS, and nobody remembers The Bureau. They do however remember XCOM Enemy Unknown that released a few months prior because that was an XCOM game.

Lets correct ourselves here, the ones who didnt want an Xcom FPS were a gathering of oldschool and nostalgia blinded neckbeards aka the Spoony "BETRAYL!!!!", type crowd. Other people were interested in it because of the setting taking place during the cold war and you playing a sort off Men in Black type unit. Buuuuut, due to all the neckbeards pissing and moaning the tactical FPS got scrapped (and hey, it wouldn't be a bad concept if it's done in say Star Wars Republic Commando or SWAT 4 style) and we got the Bureua which was clearly rushed and used elements from the original material. An lets be real, even when the turn based game came out the neckbeards still whined.

And I've heard he was the most professional out of Obsidian considering the bullshit that goes on there. Get him a proper producer and not some little bitch like Sawyer and he'll behave.

Avellone had seniority in Obsidian which is why he got away with it, even then it didn't get him a reliable paycheck.

More professional? You mean the guy who wanted to piss off and talk shit about Bethesda while they worked on New Vegas? The only people I know who talk good about him is the circuss on that RPG forum where they are ready to suck Avallones nuts even when hes involved with that Pathfinder game.
 
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