Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines: 2 - I want to believe, but...

[Pope Negro Joe the XIIIth]

You know I gotta say, even in this topic one cannot escape the re.tarded CDPR sheep and the amount of dick sucking they unleash for that mediocre company. But then again, I'm reminded that the only arguments the CDPR fanboys ever make us "Duhhh..Dey dun have lootboxes and microtransactions! Dey mediocre RPG are good!" It must be nice to live in such sad delusions for a company that at best produced 3 mediocre "RPGs".

Oh, I wasn't talking about this game. Just people brought up Cyberpunk a few times in this topic and I said how CDPR ain't exactly any better than many other companies, combined that Cyberpunk demo didn't seem impressive and well seems got some people pissy about it.

I dunno, can people stop giving them blow jobs an thinking theyre the next coming of jesus?

Fucking Christ, go jerk off or something. This thread isn't even about CDPR, calm down.

 

[The tired cat]

Fucking Christ, go jerk off or something. This thread isn't even about CDPR, calm down.

Yeah, sorry I really went full re.tarded with this shit.

 

[Wendy Carter]

A certain subset of Fans will always hate a remake or sequel that comes too long down the road from the original, true. But what would upset people broadly is not change itself but rather change that fundamentally alters what the game is and what its themes are. Anyone remember that FPS game they made for XCOM? XCOM: The Bureau? No of course not. XCOM is a turn based squad combat strategy game based off of Tabletop combat games like Warhammer. its not an FPS. Nobody wanted an XCOM FPS. Nobody bought an XCOM FPS, and nobody remembers The Bureau. They do however remember XCOM Enemy Unknown that released a few months prior because that was an XCOM game. In that case you had a betrayal of the games fundamental structure, akin to trying to turn the Civilization games into an open Role Play game. The built in fans will not buy it, and will not generate the necessary buzz to attract new fans to the series. Which often seems to be the goal of these huge redesigns of Games. Getting a "larger audience" (Read, attract the Wamyn and the woke millenial).

In the case of narrative games like RPG's you run into the same problem if you fundamentally upend the basic lore and story telling dynamics fundamental to that game. Lets take a fairly woke modern RPG, Horizon Zero Dawn as an example here. The story is about motherhood, rebirth, and a female protagonist. If Horizon 2 is about a Male to Female transexual on a quest to bash the fash, everyone will lose their shit and not buy it either.

I disagree somewhat with the notion that you cannot make a game of a genre that is different from the one that's become a staple of the series. Take Warhammer 40K, for example. It had games that aren't strategy games of some kind. Warhammer 40K: Space Marine is a third person hack'n'slash game that got mostly positive reviews across the board. Warhammer 40K: Fire Warrior is a first person shooter that had average to positive reviews, but is still remembered by people, even if they're a bit "meh" about it. Command & Conquer had a pretty solid FPS with Command & Conquer: Renegade, with a pretty big focus on multiplayer. While it's a bit more niche, it's pretty great to play around, driving various C&C vehicles, seeing familiar structures from a completely different perspective, and that's coming from someone who doesn't really like C&C franchise that much apart from Generals (I played Renegade a long time ago and had fun with it. The enemies do this funny animation if you shoot them in the balls with a sniper rifle). Heroes of Might and Magic series is a spin-off of a first person RPG series that almost completely overshadows the original series, with Dark Messiah of Might and Magic being the actual RPG game most people are familiar with on some level.

I suppose the ability to turn a game that's entrenched really deep into a very particular genre depends on whether the rules of the in-game universe are flexible enough to deviate into a direction that is different from the beaten path. Warhammer's gruesome, blood and violence-filled universe allows you to get up close and personal, as proven by Space Marine for some decent visceral, mindless action. There might've been a way to make XCOM into a competent shooter of some kind, but one would need a very specific vision for it. There are some brilliant minds out there who can make a turd into a diamond, or at least a pretty tasty, if somewhat bland, sandwich. They may not redefine the genre as we know it, but they let the creators to expand the universe a bit from a different angle, and some people like that.

 

[MarvinTheParanoidAndroid]

On reflection I can tolerate a certain degree of SJW antics as long as they don't shit the bed. The only thing I'm really anxious about that you're playing a unclanned thin blood with a unique discipline because thin bloods are boring mary sue shit.

How could thinbloods be mary sues? Their entire point is to be weak and frail, such that any generation vampire with actual disciplines could snap them in half.

 

[Emperor Julian]

How could thinbloods be mary sues? Their entire point is to be weak and frail, such that any generation vampire with actual disciplines could snap them in half.

Genrally Thin bloods have three tricks up their sleves

1)They're able to devlope new unique disciples or clan excluse powers based on the psychological hang ups of vampire or presumptions about a Vampire can do. For example a Thin blood who believed vampires to be demons might develop demonic powers.
2)The curse actually begins to fail with them and they suffer less from traditional vampire problems. Such them being able to inpregnate/get pregnant and taking less damage from sunlight.
3)Some of them have strange oracular abilities due to spending longer on the edge of death than regular vampires. The other clans can't approximate this at all, the cloest come the malkavians but even then they're just drawing on their creepy hive mind so can't 'know' something without another malkavians knowing it first.

Looking at the trailer the PC seems to have telekinetic power which are usually reserved for Tremere.

 

[MarvinTheParanoidAndroid]

Yeah, sorry I really went full re.tarded with this shit.

But for real though, CDPR are Jesus.

In other news.

Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 Forum Topics Criticizing SJW Politics Get Censored, Banned

It has begun. If there's ever any question or doubt about whether a developer has decided to plunge neck deep into identity politics, you can always tell by the

www.oneangrygamer.net

VAMPIRE: THE MASQUERADE – BLOODLINES 2 FORUM TOPICS CRITICIZING SJW POLITICS GET CENSORED, BANNED
Posted on March 23, 2019, 8:02 am By Billy D

It has begun. If there’s ever any question or doubt about whether a developer has decided to plunge neck deep into identity politics, you can always tell by the way the community reacts to the developers’ creative design decisions and the way the developers reacts to the community’s reaction.
In this case, Hardsuit Labs and Paradox Interactive’s Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 was seemingly announced out of nowhere, but the excitement was quickly replaced with apprehension and then rebellion after it was discovered various elements of the design were influenced by Leftist politics. The developers and moderators over the Steam forums obviously didn’t take kindly to the push back from fans and proceeded to censor topics, lock threads, and ban users that they felt were “baiting” certain topics.
It started when threads started popping up asking “Is this a joke?” when some fans discovered that Bloodlines 2 would apparently have some crossover with the 5th edition of Vampire: The Masquerade‘s tabletop game book from White Wolf, which features extreme-Leftist sociopolitics and identitarianism, including a character named Rudi, who is a gay, black, Muslim SJW who fights against oppressive misogynists and the patriarchy. Obviously, gamers were not keen on characters like that appearing in Vampire: The Masquerade and called it a “parody” character. The thread appeared just hours after Bloodlines 2 was announced on March 22nd, 2019, but the thread was locked 16 pages and several hours later.
Another user, going by the handle of Murf_This!, made a thread titled “Will it be SJW?”, asking…

“So, the first game gave you a redhead sex / blood slave and had a psychotic club owned, who you could bang by exploiting her mental illness. You had bad people, you had good people. The game had a realistic array of personalities. And it didn’t judge them based on that. You were able to influence the world to a small degree and also decided what kind of person you wanted to be.

“Then we have SJW games like Battletech, where at character creation you can only chose your pronoun, and every Avatar picture looks androgynous (somewhat male, somewhat female). Meanwhile your entire crew is a set of tokens of different races and mental illnesses, without any depth or actual character behind it.

“Or Dragon Age Inquisition, that forces on you an ugly, uncouth elf, because “Not all elves have to be pretty” or some trash like that.

“Or Mass Effect Andromeda, that introduced ugly Asari – a race of aliens, that literally psychically manipulate you to view them as the prettiest, most attractive possible mate for you and you only.

“So the question is – will this game be a good one, or will it cater to like ~100-200 tublrinas on Twitter, who may or may not buy your game?”

Hours later, Murf_This!, was banned for baiting and the thread topic was locked.
Whether or not Murf_This!, saw the news, but lead writer Brian Mitsoda did address the mental illness issue and you won’t be seeing any “punching down” happening in Bloodlines 2. Push Square reported that during an interview with one of the Left-wing media outlets, Mitsoda explained how they would be handling “politics” in Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2, and topics such as mental illness, saying…

“We have to be very sensitive about how we handle things like mental illness and that was a concern for us and for Paradox, in how we can make a mature story but if we do anything, we do our homework and make sure that we are punching up and not punching down.”

The terms “punching up” and “punching down” are strictly used in Social Justice Warrior circles. Normal human beings don’t use those terms.
What’s more is that even joking about Bloodlines 2 and mental illness will net you a ban, which is what happened to user FOXXOF, who quipped about picking a pronoun and a mental illness and was promptly banned for the comment.

Others simply fired back at the Left-wing sociopolitical agenda being embedded into the fictional infrastructure of Bloodlines 2, with deuxhero making a thread titled “Developers to half the population: We don’t want you to play this game”.
29 pages later and lots of ridicule from those who support the SJW agenda, and the thread was locked.
Users like Purpleetea began making threads criticizing the developers for censoring and locking the topics that dissent from the SJW agenda, writing…

“ So disabling free speech I see? How low can you get?

“You cant even speak your mind? What is this youtube-twitter♥♥♥♥♥♥♥fest? Honestly you should be ashamed of yourself. Oh you dont like what people thinking about one or another aspect of your game? Well boohoo.”

Hours later the thread was completely deleted.
User Korig also made a thread, calling out the developers for the censorship, writing…

“ Threads being locked & users being banned from discussion. What an excellent way to garner hype & excitement for your game. Within an hour of a sequel being announced you immediately confirm non binary gender pronouns, you promise to tackle modern day politics & you discuss how you will “tone down sexuality as the original was a male power fantasy”. So when people complain for obvious reasons here you lock threads & ban people from commenting…top notch.

“I’ve never seen a game get people excited so quickly & then immediately destroy that excitement/hope. Hope you enjoy your already niche game being excluded to customers who can’t figure out what gender they are.”

The thread was locked and Korig was effectively banned from the forum.
It wasn’t just Korig, though, the forums saw a massive purge of threads, topics, and users who were either asking about Social Justice Warrior influences or were making it known that they didn’t support the SJW agenda.

Keep in mind, those are the threads that were locked, not the threads that were deleted.
Users began repeatedly asking the developers about why they were banning users and deleting topics and locking the threads. Finally, user Liam Neeson Punching Wolves asked “What gives? Have I stumbled into Resetera?”. Liam Neeson was met with a curt reply from Steam community moderator Tito Shivan from Spain, who explained…

“Ok. Lemme get a look at it.
As Far I can see there’s.
– One deleted bait thread from a user previously warned for making similar bait threads on other ‘hot zone’ forums.
– 2 Spam topics with no content itself.
– 1 topic just linking to a Youtube video that’s already been linked in other places in the forum. So the subject is already being discussed.
and a few more bait topics made by users with a list of previous bans longer than advisable.

“Nothing removed out of the ordinary so you can leave the tinfoil hat at home. No Ventrue conspiracy at play. The place is ‘hot topic’ right now so it’s bringing in some regular trolls out of the woodworks at the smell of fresh blood (wink wink, nudge nudge) As it has happened on other places in the past. […]”

Shivan then quickly proceeded to lock the thread from any further discussion.
Shivan doesn’t explain which threads belong to which users given that it’s tough to tell what Shivan considers a bait thread or which ones were satirically mocking the developers for focusing entirely on talking about the politics of Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 instead of the actual gameplay. In fact, we know nothing about the actual gameplay and only about the Left-wing politics on which the game is built. This was parodied endlessly from user FiauraTheTankGirl in a thread titled “To The Devs”, to which they mock the idea that the only reason people played the original was for constant, politically charged content.
Of course, the thread was locked.
Other threads make it difficult to tell if they’re being serious or not due to the absurdity of Leftist sociopolitical jargon. For instance, SolviteSekai made a thread titled “So, which gender pronouns will you be using?” linking to an image from VG 24/7 where the outlet championed the developers for adding multiple gendered pronouns to the game. SolviteSekai quipped… “I’m thinking it/they but I’ve also considered Vamp/Vampies”.
10 pages later and the thread was locked.
Shivan made have made it seem like he only locked/deleted a handful of threads, but the bans just kept going. Noxxshroude’s thread titled “The SJW Parts” attempted to convey that they didn’t really want to play a game about LGBTQIA sociopolitical propaganda, writing…

“Okay, I support the LGBTQI but does every game need to include it? I mean maybe put in a romance quest or a nod here and there but 50 pronouns? How is that relevant to the game? This is a game about vampires. The only concerns should be what clans you can be and how you can make it feel like WoD.”

Less than an hour later and the thread was locked.
Others like Tova didn’t even bring up the SJW aspects. They simply wrote…

“Was interested.. then.. Saw paradox was the publisher, Too bad they are blacklisted for the Stellaris Fiasco.”

The thread didn’t even last minutes before it was locked.
What they’re referring to with the Stellaris fiasco is that back in late May of 2016Paradox Interactive stepped in to ban a user mod from being made publicly available for Stellaris because it allowed players to make the human characters white only.
Game journalists complained about the mod calling it “racist” and so Paradox Interactive kowtowed to their demands and pulled the mod.
Nearly all the threads decrying the Left-wing politics or criticizing the game’s obvious Liberal-slant with the identitarianism and sociopolitical topic matter have been locked or deleted, and the users sanctioned or banned.
One thread, however, remains.
User Mannagen created a very long post titled “Please Reconsider the Political Messaging”.
As of the writing of this article, and 33 hefty pages in, the thread is still alive.
Mannagen tries, to the best of his abilities, to outline that he’s Conservative and that he doesn’t mind Liberal content in his media, but he just wants a game where he can enjoy it without all the political bludgeoning going on in today’s culture war. To sum up what Mannagen wrote, the lengthy post ends with the following paragraph…

“I just want to play my bit of dark fantasy in this World of Darkness, free of all the pettiness and strife I have to deal with in the news, workplace, and public spaces of reality. I want to make my vampire how I imagine myself (or how I imagine the character I seek to play), and make choices how I elect to make them, with force or coercion of ideas that are not my own, in a political climate that is balanced/neutral by any 3rd person’s point of view (free of bias), and I want to be able to do this for hours on end. Period. Make that the game. Let’s not play this political, pandering card that appears to be all the rage now-a-days.”

Obviously, Mannagen is immediately attacked by Liberals and Leftists who have a deep rooted hatred for Conservatives and traditional Western values.
However, even with the censorship running supreme on the forums, the word is still spreading and users are still dropping red pills for all the casuals to see. Threads are still popping up from users like TYR who warned people about Cara Ellison’s ties to getting Hotline Miami 2 banned in Australia, as well as pointing out that Ellison helped with writing Dishonored 2, which effectively made its way onto the Get Woke; Go Broke Master List…

“Feminist/SJW-Pronoun VtMB2 writer Cara Ellison, writer for VtMB2, also writer for the trainwreck that was Dishonored 2, was part of the bandwagon that got Hotline Miami banned in Australia.”

What it looks like is that the more that the moderators try to censor and ban users for exposing the SJW agenda, the more people are going to push back against the censorship.
This is always a common tactic with a lot of Leftists and SJWs who can’t argue in favor of their own politics because they’re either contradictory, desultory, or degenerate, and therefore the only recourse they have is to censor the opposition, which is exactly what we’re seeing with people who critically put the development team’s politics and the political direction they’re taking with Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 under the microscope.

 

[mindlessobserver]

What is obnoxious is for an open ended RPG you can play as a SocJus sperg, or you could play as a raging Nazi. Or something in between. This is something old Bioware understood with KOTOR. Taking the Light or Dark paths led to interesting narrative outcomes and there were often scenarios that forced a player following either path to question the validity of their choices. Like that epic scene with the beggar when the player in KOTOR 2 arrives on Nar Shaddah.

Problem is such emergent story telling requires self awareness, and the ability to understand beliefs and philosophies you dont agree with and see where they may be valid. Did the Bioware devs believe you should side with the corporation that hires assassins and wants to get the job done at all costs over the peaceful faith healers who want to form a drum a circle and sing to trees? Probably not. But they understood why that could be an option. Even a viable one, and why their own favored moral choice had flaws.

Highly doubtful this crew of freaks has that level of self awareness

 

[Techpriest]

Also just as an aside, people complaining about vampire being too 'woke' sure as shit aren't the people who know the lore. It's a fact that there's an entire clan what is basically tumblr with super powers, complete with getting triggered as fuck. It's a fact that the elders are out to fucking exploit everyone else for whatever reason, and both the Camarilla and Sabbat give no real fucks about an individual. Both are in the end, puppets of the Antediluvian's in one way or another. 'Punching up' could mean a million different things in the context of the game.

'Punching up' when it comes to vampire, especially as a thin blood is devouring the ones who underestimate you, and challenging the whole damn system from the get-go. Punching up could mean joining the Anarchs, or eating away at the system from the inside, toppling the structure of the entire Danse Macabre within Seattle by taking it out at the roots.

Vampire is what you make it really, and without knowing what the current political situation in Seattle is in the game, what could be happening could be just about anything. Maybe the Sabbat is moving in, maybe the Anarchs are striking out at the cammies, maybe you're part of a sabbat shovelhead embrace gone wrong. We don't know yet,

 

[RadicalCentrist]

I couldn't replicate this talking rat, so I think I'M going insane now. I'm pretty sure it appears in Hollywood sewers at some point, so maybe you can try it.

The rat doesn't just talk, it also functions as a sewer taxi, too, iirc.

'Punching up' when it comes to vampire, especially as a thin blood is devouring the ones who underestimate you, and challenging the whole damn system from the get-go. Punching up could mean joining the Anarchs, or eating away at the system from the inside, toppling the structure of the entire Danse Macabre within Seattle by taking it out at the roots.

Oh like you were supposed to eat away at your hat?

 

[SiccDicc]

Also just as an aside, people complaining about vampire being too 'woke' sure as shit aren't the people who know the lore. It's a fact that there's an entire clan what is basically tumblr with super powers, complete with getting triggered as fuck. It's a fact that the elders are out to fucking exploit everyone else for whatever reason, and both the Camarilla and Sabbat give no real fucks about an individual. Both are in the end, puppets of the Antediluvian's in one way or another. 'Punching up' could mean a million different things in the context of the game.

'Punching up' when it comes to vampire, especially as a thin blood is devouring the ones who underestimate you, and challenging the whole damn system from the get-go. Punching up could mean joining the Anarchs, or eating away at the system from the inside, toppling the structure of the entire Danse Macabre within Seattle by taking it out at the roots.

Vampire is what you make it really, and without knowing what the current political situation in Seattle is in the game, what could be happening could be just about anything. Maybe the Sabbat is moving in, maybe the Anarchs are striking out at the cammies, maybe you're part of a sabbat shovelhead embrace gone wrong. We don't know yet,

Well, I do know they hired Cara Ellison as a part of the writing team. That says a lot to me.

 

[MarvinTheParanoidAndroid]

It's a fact that there's an entire clan what is basically tumblr with super powers, complete with getting triggered as fuck.

So the Brujah.

Both are in the end, puppets of the Antediluvian's in one way or another. 'Punching up' could mean a million different things in the context of the game.

We both know the reality is that it doesn't, it's going to be very cut and dry in that a crippled black queer tranny will be punching up at an able-bodied, white, cis, straight male vampire, all aspects completely irrespective of things like clans, sects or generation. You can rely on these tumblrite writers to give a blank stare at words like "Methuselah" or "Antediluvian". Watch as they fling their shit across the room at the bearer of bad news when they hear that the father of all vampires is from Christianity before their eyes boil with bloody tears out of their sockets.

'Punching up' when it comes to vampire, especially as a thin blood is devouring the ones who underestimate you, and challenging the whole damn system from the get-go. Punching up could mean joining the Anarchs, or eating away at the system from the inside, toppling the structure of the entire Danse Macabre within Seattle by taking it out at the roots.

So lots and lots of diablerie, which is actually worse than murder since you're denying the victim an afterlife.

 

[The tired cat]

I think people are forgetting that in the 1st game you literally become a super bad ass vampire in 72 hours with the joke being that the cab driver was Caine and he made you so super bad ass. Honestly, if you're playing a thin blood, it really does sound like they wanna pull a sort of GTA thing where you start at the bottom and really work your way up a specific clan to show you aren't some twat from the street. So, it could actually work in a way if you play it up correctly.

 

[Emperor Julian]

The issue is with 'woke' vampires is that it works on the fallacy that Vampire society operates on Human principles. Pretty much all Vampire societies are run by the most powerful vampires who are objectively 'better' than you. Older ,more powerful, smarter and usually deeply evil.
For example this is Hardestadt the Younger

He was about 1000 years old and around 5 removed from the first vampire at the time of his supposed death. He's so physically tough in human terms he could most likely absorb a group of humans emptying semi-automatics into him without much problem....assuming he didnt use his psychic powers to make them kill each other that is. It's also worth noting he commands resources comparatible to a shitty third world country so opposition to him will result in having to fight 400-500 well trained military personal and 20-30 mid-tier vampires after being being added to the FBI's most wanted.
To make this situation worse, he's utterly inhuman and doesnt really think human terms. He doesnt discriminate in terms of race since he predates such notions and doesnt discrimminate in terms of gender because it's irrelivant to him, many of his allies are equally awful women, Ethnic minorities and people who would have been gay if they still had a sex drive. He's already looked the other way when at least one entire vampire clan was exterminated to a man with his tacit complicance-down the last frightened Nun.

Did I mention he's probably eaten a couple of souls and runs the Vampire equivelant of Western europe with several other vampires on a same level as him?

His opponent is Rudi

Who is young enough to know humans from when he was one. Even assuming Hardestadt the Younger is dead I look forward to seeing Rudy's plan to level the establishment when he squares up against 700 year old Hardestadt the even younger or somesuch.

I'm sure his human buddies will see old age.

 

[Techpriest]

The issue is with 'woke' vampires is that it works on the fallacy that Vampire society operates on Human principles. Pretty much all Vampire societies are run by the most powerful vampires who are objectively 'better' than you. Older ,more powerful, smarter and usually deeply evil.
For example this is Hardestadt the Younger
View attachment 706595
He was about 1000 years old and around 5 removed from the first vampire at the time of his supposed death. He's so physically tough in human terms he could most likely absorb a group of humans emptying semi-automatics into him without much problem....assuming he didnt use his psychic powers to make them kill each other that is. It's also worth noting he commands resources comparatible to a shitty third world country so opposition to him will result in having to fight 400-500 well trained military personal and 20-30 mid-tier vampires after being being added to the FBI's most wanted.
To make this situation worse, he's utterly inhuman and doesnt really think human terms. He doesnt discriminate in terms of race since he predates such notions and doesnt discrimminate in terms of gender because it's irrelivant to him, many of his allies are equally awful women, Ethnic minorities and people who would have been gay if they still had a sex drive. He's already looked the other way when at least one entire vampire clan was exterminated to a man with his tacit complicance-down the last frightened Nun.

Did I mention he's probably eaten a couple of souls and runs the Vampire equivelant of Western europe with several other vampires on a same level as him?

His opponent is Rudi
View attachment 706617

Who is young enough to know humans from when he was one. Even assuming Hardestadt the Younger is dead I look forward to seeing Rudy's plan to level the establishment when he squares up against 700 year old Hardestadt the even younger or somesuch.

I'm sure his human buddies will see old age.

Vampire society is in many ways a mirror of that of living society, especially within the Anarchs and Camarilla. The Sabbat are different but that’s because the Sabbat throw any pretext of clinging to humanity out the window, and acknowledge that generation is the key to freedom. The best way to get it is eat the motherfuckers who have betrayed Caine by clinging to the path of humanity.

Hardestadt is dead. He was killed during the Convention of Prague in 2012, according to V5 core. How did he die? Dragons breath rounds to the face at point blank. His Brujah archon had too much of his shit and offed him (likely with assistance from Hardestadt’s Childe) during the Conference going to hell. Hardestadt’s childe is missing, presumed dead.

Hardestadt the Elder died to a barely 100 year old Brujah during the first Anarch revolts. The establishment of the Anarch Free State had a bunch of vampires that were 11th to 13th generation plan, maneuver, and execute a surgical strike that killed several elders, likely even a 7th generation.

That’s the thing with Vampire society, from the 2nd generation to the current nights. You always have to watch out for your childer, because they’re gunning for your position. What generation is Rudi? He could easily be an Elder’s childe being used as a cats paw, now that the Gangrel are an independent clan.

So lots and lots of diablerie, which is actually worse than murder since you're denying the victim an afterlife.

Fun thing - the Wraith book notes that vampires don’t form ghosts.

Even excluding that, diablerie as a tool in vampire society is an open secret. Blood Hunts for example, are often a thinly veiled excuse for diablere among the participants. The blood is the prize.

 

[Corbin Dallas Multipass]

'Punching up' when it comes to vampire, especially as a thin blood is devouring the ones who underestimate you, and challenging the whole damn system from the get-go. Punching up could mean joining the Anarchs, or eating away at the system from the inside, toppling the structure of the entire Danse Macabre within Seattle by taking it out at the roots.

Wow dude, it must be nice to be so , but I've never heard the term "punch up" in any context except rabid sjw nonsense. It's one of them there "dogwhistles" those types like to talk about so much.

 

[Emperor Julian]

Hardestadt is dead. He was killed during the Convention of Prague in 2012, according to V5 core. How did he die? Dragons breath rounds to the face at point blank. His Brujah archon had too much of his shit and offed him (likely with assistance from Hardestadt’s Childe) during the Conference going to hell. Hardestadt’s childe is missing, presumed dead.

Yeah I was using Hardestadt as an example of how lethal eldars are, personally I'm suspicious of his assasination and suspect it's either faked or someone else was involved. It is however worth noting Theo Bell is a badass from clan whose survial into modern nights is that they're probably the nastyest clan in a straight fight.

Not sure about Rudi's generation but we're talking about someone lecturing Eldar vampires on the Patriarchy while palling around with his human buddies. The average neonate is going to be a bit much for him so whats going to happen when he calls the primogen a "shitlord"?

 

[Techpriest]

Yeah I was using Hardestadt as an example of how lethal eldars are, personally I'm suspicious of his assasination and suspect it's either faked or someone else was involved. It is however worth noting Theo Bell is a badass from clan whose survial into modern nights is that they're probably the nastyest clan in a straight fight.

Not sure about Rudi's generation but we're talking about someone lecturing Eldar vampires on the Patriarchy while palling around with his human buddies. The average neonate is going to be a bit much for him so whats going to happen when he calls the primogen a "shitlord"?

A single neonate isn’t the problem for the elders, it’s when a bunch of them go after the elders. That’s why the Anarch revolts caused so much damage. That’s also the danger of the Anarch movement in general for the Camarilla and the Sabbat. A mass movement of kindred demanding the elders pay them some respect has resulted in the deaths of some of the most powerful kindred in history. Smart elders remember that they were once young, and humor the neonates to a degree. Dumb ones antagonize them and cause Anarchs to burn their mansions down around them.

Rudi is a danger to some because there’s the fear he might spark a neonate wave. Rudi is also possibly talking out of his ass - the Anarchs book is entirely written from the perspective of Anarchs, most of them neonates.

 

[SiccDicc]

Not sure about Rudi's generation but we're talking about someone lecturing Eldar vampires on the Patriarchy while palling around with his human buddies. The average neonate is going to be a bit much for him so whats going to happen when he calls the primogen a "shitlord"?

With the current crop of writers they have? He'd be crowned New Caine by Caine and Lilith would be resurrected to be his wife and totally be okay with it as they rule vampires into a new age with humans and Tru-Blood.

Avellone can only do so much in a consultant role.

 

[Emperor Julian]

Rudi is a danger to some because there’s the fear he might spark a neonate wave. Rudi is also possibly talking out of his ass - the Anarchs book is entirely written from the perspective of Anarchs, most of them neonates.

Well, Rudi's homebase is cophenhagen and their's a shit load of norse setites up in copenhagen and this could be a play by them assuming white wolfs writters better than I presume.

 

[Techpriest]

Well, Rudi's homebase is cophenhagen and their's a shit load of norse setites up in copenhagen and this could be a play by them assuming white wolfs writters better than I presume.

Very possible. There's only been a total of four V5 books IIRC, two of which are just in setting details on the sects of the anarchs and camarilla. So whatever theory you want to go with, go with it.