Undertale / Deltarune / Toby Fox Discussion

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I need this with Carol and Susie
 
So, weird idea that I had: how would it look like if we took the most fucked up offensive songs and made Ralsei sing and censor them "Raise Up Your Bat" style?

This is my best attempt in rewriting lyrics like this:


[Chorus]
You don't wanna bake with me, me, me
I whip it up with the mix, mix, mix
You don't wanna bake with me, me, me
SPRINKLES - LOVE - AND~ - CUPCAKES!
You don't wanna bake with me, me, me
I whip it up with the mix, mix, mix
You don't wanna bake with me, me, me
SPRINKLES - LOVE - AND~ - CUPCAKES!

[Verse 1]
Yo, let me tell you 'bout my friend, Emily
She's the sweetest girl you'll ever meet, you see.
Her boyfriend drops her off, and they agree
To join our baking club, for them it's key!
So I meet her at the door with a happy shout
Got the mixing bowls and ingredients out
Another friend saw us and wanted in, no doubt
Now we're preheating, gotta let the heat spout!
I get the flour and the sugar measured right
Whip out the whisk and the spatula, so bright
Bring the chocolate chips, a delicious sight
Drop a spoonful of batter, it's pure delight
The timer's set, according to the recipe plan
I walk to the table with the pans in my hand
Spread the frosting as fast as I can
Now let me show you how to be a baking fan!

[Chorus]
You don't wanna bake with me, me, me
I whip it up with the mix, mix, mix
You don't wanna bake with me, me, me
SPRINKLES - LOVE - AND~ - CUPCAKES!
You don't wanna bake with me, me, me
I whip it up with the mix, mix, mix
You don't wanna bake with me, me, me
SPRINKLES - LOVE - AND~ - CUPCAKES!

[Verse 2]
I wish it was a Sunday but it's a Monday
Still, I'm betting it's a fun day
'Cause I'm mixing up a batter, yay!
At the club, ready for some bake-play!
And I'm not worried 'bout the dough, nay
Nor looking 'round checking out the buffet
I'm lookin' for my friends who want to play, ay
And share a tasty treat with me in some way!
Yo, you should come and have some, hey!
When you're not even too busy to run away
I'll point and click and the mixer will say
What for the longest time I was gonna say
In the frosting, we'll bathe in sweet glaze
The kitchen rabble-rabble in a happy craze
But before we can finish this fun phase
I'll save you a slice, in a nice, warm way, 'cause

[Chorus]
You don't wanna bake with me, me, me
I whip it up with the mix, mix, mix
You don't wanna bake with me, me, me
SPRINKLES - LOVE - AND~ - CUPCAKES!
You don't wanna bake with me, me, me
I whip it up with the mix, mix, mix
You don't wanna bake with me, me, me
SPRINKLES - LOVE - AND~ - CUPCAKES!

[Bridge]
So, here we go
It's time for the show
Baking all the yummiest, sweetest little treats
And yo, now you know
The oven's aglow
We're making cookies for the whole street!

[Verse 3]
Last week I planned a bake sale threat
You didn't take the warning
But now you see that I'm baking yet
And the treats are ready this morning!
So I take out my chocolate and vanilla cups
Sweet-toothed friends, it's time to fill your tums!
In groups of ten they form two lines for pups
I served them all, and now I'm washing up the crumbs!
And I don't do chores 'cause I don't do grime
I do acts of kindness that you'll all discover!
This is for how you cheered up your sisters and brothers
This is for how we all help each other
And when the ovens ding, the air smells sweet
Till I hear my friends on the street
I share my cupcakes, a wonderful feat
Let's all take a bite, a tasty treat!

[Chorus]
You don't wanna bake with me, me, me
I whip it up with the mix, mix, mix
You don't wanna bake with me, me, me
SPRINKLES - LOVE - AND~ - CUPCAKES!
You don't wanna bake with me, me, me
I whip it up with the mix, mix, mix
You don't wanna bake with me, me, me
SPRINKLES - LOVE - AND~ - CUPCAKES!
 
Two Dollars said:
I like how it’s not even something like “Kriselle but political” it’s just “Noelle x some guy”.
Click to expand...
Still less forced than Suselle, I think

Без имени1.jpg
>Pretends to be smart
>Is actually the least intellegent character in the game
>Agreed to be the most annoying out of everyone
>Gets beaten up by a gang (Fun gang)
>Dies at 17 in a violent altercation (SnowGrave)
>Depicted as a black person

What did the artist mean by this?
 
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smartgenius55583433157 said:
Still less forced than Suselle, I think
Click to expand...
Krusie’s foundation is “enemies to friends to lovers” and “dumbasses who share a brain cell”.

Kriselle’s foundation is “childhood friends who know each other better than anyone else and become something more”.

Suselle’s foundation is “lesbians”. It’s literally just lesbians.
 
Two Dollars said:
Suselle’s foundation is “lesbians”. It’s literally just lesbians.
Click to expand...
Well it's not just that... It's also... That Noelle gave Suise a pencil, and also thinks she's like really hot or something.

Honently, I also kind of shared the same sentiment that Krusie and Kriselle always had the most foundation and chemistry than the Suselle we've got.

And it always felt like that weird fan ship that obviously would never be in the real story, but Tumblr users would ship it anyway.

Not to mention that it just copies Alphys x Undyne's dynamic of "Total dork that goons over her crush x Unhinged tomboy that somehow fallen over for her".

And the only reason it's even in the game is because Toby Fox pretty much Deus Ex Machinaed all of the Suselle moments into existence.

Like, remember the Ferris Wheel ride? Sure, we saw a billboard about it beforehand, but isn't it too convininent that it just so happens to be just next to Noelle's room for the girls to hop in?

You would totally get made fun of if you pulled that in your fanfic. But because it's the official game and also gay it gets a free pass.

Despite the fact that it's like pulling a Royal Flush out of your sleeve in a poker game and then trying to convince everybody that it was actually a skilled play.

This ship also just serves as a plot device to guide Kris and Suise. Noelle asks Kris to bring Suise to the library to study together? The next dark fountain is there!

Susie wants to investigate in mayor's house to find any info on the shelter code? They ask Noelle but she understands that her mom would totally be against it! Well, worry not, Noelle is so into Suise that she would make an exception and let them in!

And don't get me started on how much chemistry Kris and Suise have, as well as emotional dependence.

Like, if you made Suise lose Noelle, sure she'd be mad, but if Kris? Holy fuck, you'd better be not the reason for it.

Kris and Suise have gone through so much together, have such deep connection, that they fucking eat moss of the wall together AND trust each other's lifes.

There's a reason Suselle fags suddenly started to like Krusie after playing chapter 4, because they're realizing that Toby fox is writing way to good of a relathiosnip between these two.

If Suselle wants to ever hold a candle to Kruise, it would have to somehow develop everything that Krusie already built, which would be monumental.

But obviously the bacon strip flag enjoyers are going to be seething if you take away the forced Suselle, and considering that Yuri is literally Toby's barely disguised fetish, I feel like he might go through with it anyway.
 
smartgenius55583433157 said:
Honently, I also kind of shared the same sentiment that Krusie and Kriselle always had the most foundation and chemistry than the Suselle we've got
Click to expand...
I think it's funny that Kris has better chemistry with both characters than Noelle has with Susie. Hell, it's true even for "Kralsie." It doesn't help that Susie and Noelle have only had two conversations total, one of which she thinks was a dream.

I feel like it can't be just a coincidence that the dark fountains appear in that particular order, and that everything doesn't go the way it would in a more conventionally told story. Everything about Susie and Noelle is contrived, but I think the stage was set for Kris and Noelle to have this adventure. I think Susie was supposed to be a force of nature rather than a hero and Ralsei shouldn't have even existed, but had to for the story to go the way it's currently going. Kris isn't the kind of guy to try and convince anyone that everything can be solved with hugs and kisses, but Ralsei sure is. He's the complete opposite of Kris, and fills a slot in the prophecy that may have been intended for someone else like Asriel, the only other prince in town. So, who's the Girl? Noelle? Dess? Dess can't be the Knight and the Girl at the same time, so if she's the Girl, who's the Knight? Starting to think it's Rudy.

The Knight knew where Kris was going to be when the Library's fountain opened. Maybe they could tell that there were two people in the room when they opened the fountain from the closet. In fact, every dark room opened by the Knight was located in a room with a closet, not counting Ralsei's dark world. The knight could hide there, and nobody would know to expect it. They could even make a getaway to the closet and open another dark world if they got cornered. Maybe the supply closet fountain was opened second, and the knight rushed to the classroom's dark world from the newly formed one so they could escape while Kris and the other hero were trapped in the closet being accosted by Lancer.

The outlier here is chapter 3's TV world. Kris did that, and we can only guess why. Was he creating a situation where Susie would have to go to church with him the next day, or did he do it to stop the knight from kidnapping Toriel? The hell was the knight even doing in the church? There wasn't anyone important there to chat up aside from Gerson, who doesn't really give a shit about anything the knight could tempt him with.
 
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Two Dollars said:
Krusie’s foundation is “enemies to friends to lovers” and “dumbasses who share a brain cell”.

Kriselle’s foundation is “childhood friends who know each other better than anyone else and become something more”.

Suselle’s foundation is “lesbians”. It’s literally just lesbians.
Click to expand...
And also "Noelle wants to fuck Susie because she reminds her of her dead/missing/whatever sister"
 
smartgenius55583433157 said:
And the only reason it's even in the game is because Toby Fox pretty much Deus Ex Machinaed all of the Suselle moments into existence.
Click to expand...
That (among other things) is why a lot of people speculate that all the Suselle moments are shoehorned in on purpose to build up to Chapter 5 where Noelle confesses and Susie is off-put and confides to Kris, where she realizes she has feelings for him. One moment in Chapter 4 that I don’t think gets enough focus is when you check the mirror with Susie. The first time, it says something like “Despite everything that’s happening, as long as you have Susie, you feel like everything’s going to be okay.” But if you check it a second time, Susie looks at you both in the mirror, deep in thought, likely thinking the exact same thing.

Not only is Suselle a bad crackship on its own, it would also require you to just ignore all the very deliberate buildup between Kris and Susie on both sides throughout the last 3-4 chapters.

Before I forget, there’s also how Susie reacts to Noelle in Chapter 2’s weird route. We don’t know the full context, but it came across to me as Noelle coming onto Susie, and instead of reacting how most people would react to their crush confessing and hitting on them, Susie’s reaction was “lmao I gotta tell Kris about this”.
 
Two Dollars said:
That (among other things) is why a lot of people speculate that all the Suselle moments are shoehorned in on purpose to build up to Chapter 5 where Noelle confesses and Susie is off-put and confides to Kris, where she realizes she has feelings for him.
Click to expand...

* Somewhere, in the depths of​
Bluesky...
* You could feel a person with a
lesbian pride flag in their profile
being filled with COPE.
 
Two Dollars said:
That (among other things) is why a lot of people speculate that all the Suselle moments are shoehorned in on purpose to build up to Chapter 5 where Noelle confesses and Susie is off-put and confides to Kris, where she realizes she has feelings for him. One moment in Chapter 4 that I don’t think gets enough focus is when you check the mirror with Susie. The first time, it says something like “Despite everything that’s happening, as long as you have Susie, you feel like everything’s going to be okay.” But if you check it a second time, Susie looks at you both in the mirror, deep in thought, likely thinking the exact same thing.
Click to expand...
this is a very good point, and by all conventional standards of writing Krusie is a shoe-in.

However, this is a Toby Fox game...
 
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