Undertale / Deltarune / Toby Fox Discussion

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Toby showed off some new lines from Ch. 5's translation sheet today.
Link
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gaysexenjoyer said:
>The shadow crystals contain determination
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> Reveal Mike is real and what his role in past was in the newsletter
> Confirm Shadow Crystals are connected to DT in a tweet
Toby's funny, I guess I can see what 5 was supposed to release alongside 3&4 if we were going to get a continuation of the Mike stuff and more information on the Shadow Crystals.
 
gaysexenjoyer said:
So you know Mike the human from earlier? Yeah, so it turns out that he's in a coma and this is all his dream.
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Also don't forget that this all comes out of absolutely fucking nowhere in the second game. The first game had no hints of this at all. Or if it did it was so fucking subtle about it that I never picked up on it. Apparently though they were supposed to be a trilogy, but I guess for whatever reason they only got approved for a single sequel meaning they had to axe whatever plans they originally had and try to cram everything into the second game which explains a fair amount in all honesty. Maybe there was meant to be more buildup, I dunno. I still think the twist was dogshit either way.
Lowkey, I thought Mike was a fucking joke character in the first game. Like as a kid my first thought was that he was one of the developers that put themselves in the game as a joke. Especially because he literally is completely unimportant to the plot in the first game besides the fact you rescue him, he then proceeds to do nothing else for the rest of the game.
He doesn't really do much important in the second game either but suddenly near the end it's like "THE WORLD IS GONNA END AND IT'S MIKE'S FAULT BRO!" or some shit. Like, what? Bro, Mike is just fucking here. What do you mean?

Also the fact that Deltarune also has a mysterious character named "Mike" is very coincidental and humorous.
But anyway, come to think of it the first game also had literal darkness, you had to slowly uncover the town and save all the townspeople. I swear to god if Deltarune ends with Kris waking up in the hospital because Asgore ran over Dess while drunk driving and crashed into a tree I'm going to fucking lose it.
 
Bob Barbas said:
But anyway, come to think of it the first game also had literal darkness, you had to slowly uncover the town and save all the townspeople. I swear to god if Deltarune ends with Kris waking up in the hospital because Asgore ran over Dess while drunk driving and crashed into a tree I'm going to fucking lose it.
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kris isn't even kris, kris is toby fox, noelle is andrew hussie, dess is hussie's brother, rudy is hussie's (dead) father, and carol is hussie's mother whose maiden name is holiday. toby's dad ran over hussie's brother which caused hussie sr. to get gigaids
 
Bob Barbas said:
Also don't forget that this all comes out of absolutely fucking nowhere in the second game. The first game had no hints of this at all. Or if it did it was so fucking subtle about it that I never picked up on it. Apparently though they were supposed to be a trilogy, but I guess for whatever reason they only got approved for a single sequel meaning they had to axe whatever plans they originally had and try to cram everything into the second game which explains a fair amount in all honesty. Maybe there was meant to be more buildup, I dunno. I still think the twist was dogshit either way.
Lowkey, I thought Mike was a fucking joke character in the first game. Like as a kid my first thought was that he was one of the developers that put themselves in the game as a joke. Especially because he literally is completely unimportant to the plot in the first game besides the fact you rescue him, he then proceeds to do nothing else for the rest of the game.
He doesn't really do much important in the second game either but suddenly near the end it's like "THE WORLD IS GONNA END AND IT'S MIKE'S FAULT BRO!" or some shit. Like, what? Bro, Mike is just fucking here. What do you mean?
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Even as a kid I thought it was bullshit. Like, in 2 there's some retroactive "ooooh" reveal stuff like with the game asking you to draw the night of the crash but with letters missing so you don't know what it's asking of you until the very end, or how there's a mysterious prayer that's seemingly adressed to you, the creator, but is actually Mike's sister praying to God for him to live. Vague breadcrumbs like that.

Nothing to make the twist not come out of nowhere mind you, but there's something.

But in 1? Nothing. There are zero hints that anything in 1 is fake or that Mike is important. For fucks sake, you don't even meet Mike until like... the last 2 hours of the game. He's just a random NPC you save like every other Rapposa. Him being one of the devs as a cameo Kojima-style makes more logical sense then him being some key to everything or the central character.

How the fuck is the entire world Mikes dream if he doesn't even show up until almost the very end of the first game? That doesn't even make any sense. If he created the world how could it have existed before he ever got there?

I'm convinced the "it was a dream" shit was a retcon they created for 2 so they could end the story definitively after they never got a third game. It completely destroys the entire world and makes any kind of sequel or spinoff impossible + it had no buildup in the first game whatsoever. There's no way it was planned from the start.
 
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gaysexenjoyer said:
I'm convinced the "it was a dream" shit was a retcon they created for 2 so they could end the story definitively after they never got a third game. It completely destroys the entire world and makes any kind of sequel or spinoff impossible + it had no buildup in the first game whatsoever. There's no way it was planned from the start.
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Maybe it was done out of spite? I could buy that. Perhaps they were pissed they didn't get the trilogy they wanted. I could buy that.
gaysexenjoyer said:
Him being one of the devs as a cameo Kojima-style makes more logical sense then him being some key to everything or the central character.
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That was literally my thought process as a kid I thought it was literally just "Ha ha, funny random human among cast of non-humans."

I wouldn't be surprised if Drawn To Life had some kind of psychological effect on me that made me hate the "It was all in Le Head" twist. I've seen people say the ending made them sad or tear up even but honestly I was confused at first. Then once I processed it I was pissed off. Now admittedly the games did have a few emotional moments like Jowee deciding to stay with Mari at the end of the first game instead of choosing a life of adventure. The part in the second game where the mayor almost gives up her life is only sad the first time and the song really helps to deceive you and make you forget she's basically choosing to die and leave her son alone because she lost a competition to some Phantom of the Opera looking jackass. Then it becomes retarded rather than sad. Point is the ending was NOT one of those moments that made me feel things, it made me angry because as you said it more or less just smacked you in the fucking face and said "Guess what! Everything you just did was a waste of fucking time, fuck you retard!" which okay, yes. You're not wrong, but you didn't have to be such a faggot about it.

To somewhat get the thread back on topic there was also this Deltarune horror webseries (Not an ARG as there was no audience participation to my knowledge.) called Ashveil Lane. To put it bluntly the entire series is literally the "This is all in your head, Luigi!" twist. So the story is, Kris is adopted by Toriel but Asriel fucking hates him for whatever reason, they get into a fight then Toriel decides to move Kris to a different family but then Kris runs away from home and makes a deal with a demon or something who then creates this fake perfect life for him. To put it shortly though it begins crumbling and the series ends with Kris facing reality and walking off into the woods having earned nothing. Still homeless and still alone. It's all pretty hollow and retarded tbh.
So I'm hoping actual Deltarune's ending is not hollow and retarded as well.
 
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