Twitter Hides POTUS Tweet

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I didn't "convince myself." I saw it obviously protecting the right in a way nothing else could. I am hardly the only person to call it "the First Amendment of the Internet." This is not some fanatical nonsense I conjured up out of nowhere. My position on Section 230 is little different than that of Eugene Volokh, one of the preeminent First Amendment scholars in the country.

I'm not sure why you would think I needed to "convince myself" of something that is self-evidently obvious to me. In short, suck my dick. Your question is fucking dumb because I did not have to "convince myself" of fucking anything.

I am taken aback by your rudeness, sir. There's no reason to go full Ralph over a little difference of opinion. This is KiwiFarms, after all. Let's manage our decorum accordingly.

If I want the LOLbertarian perspective on freedom of speech, I'll read Volokh Conspiracy. EV is quite literally a paid shill for big tech, so take all of his big-brained "tech censorship = free speech" arguments with a big grain of salt. To be fair to Eugene, I have never heard him suggest that § 230 is just as important as the First Amendment. In his most recent writings on the subject, he seems open to amending § 230 (which, btw, is the course of action I endorse). And FWIW, Eugene hosts contributors on his blog who recognize that Section 230's blanket immunity regime should reconsidered, for reasons you have largely ignored.

Because you unironcally state that 230 "obviously protect [freedom of speech] in a way nothing else could," it is apparent that you have convinced yourself of an absurd position. Section 230 is not sacrosanct. It is not the source of speech rights; nor is it the best or only way to protect freedom of speech online. It is not the bedrock of a free society, or some gay shit like that. It is a statute, drafted in the mid-1990's, and it reflects concerns of that era. It does not reflect an era of multinational social media corporations influencing our political discourse.

As I stated, I don't want § 230 to be repealed. I believe it can be amended to accommodate the competing interests at play here. But if it were repealed, internet shitposting would persist, and society would find a way to cope. If the First Amendment were repealed, then we'd be in trouble.
 
I am taken aback by your rudeness, sir. There's no reason to go full Ralph over a little difference of opinion. This is KiwiFarms, after all. Let's manage our decorum accordingly.

You have to admit it was at least somewhat rude to claim I had to "convince myself" of a position I sincerely hold, which was so passive aggressive a way of calling me intellectually dishonest it made me mad because here, you can just call me a faggot if you feel like it. You don't have to be sneaky.
 
You have to admit it was at least somewhat rude to claim I had to "convince myself" of a position I sincerely hold, which was so passive aggressive a way of calling me intellectually dishonest it made me mad because here, you can just call me a faggot if you feel like it. You don't have to be sneaky.
I've never understood the logic of people who think that anybody who dissents from their line of thought must somehow have made a conscious effort to be wrong.
 
Trump's biggest problem has always been his ego. Sure Twitter like most social media cucks itself over and over but you don't go full tard and fuck about with freedoms the people have from the Government itself.

That's how you, as a president or leader, lose a lot of support from people you once courted under the banner of freedom.

Trump should stop being a bitch cause Jack upset him and go loot some Target's to feel better about himself. It's just Twitter, calm the fuck down.
 
Trump's biggest problem has always been his ego. Sure Twitter like most social media cucks itself over and over but you don't go full tard and fuck about with freedoms the people have from the Government itself.

That's how you, as a president or leader, lose a lot of support from people you once courted under the banner of freedom.

Trump should stop being a bitch cause Jack upset him and go loot some Target's to feel better about himself. It's just Twitter, calm the fuck down.

I think if someone has publicly supported rioting and looting, Trump should personally show up at their home and smash it up and personally steal all their shit.
 
I think if someone has publicly supported rioting and looting, Trump should personally show up at their home and smash it up and personally steal all their shit.

He should at least give the go ahead for anyone who knows where the person lives to seize the property and everything in it. Communism means sharing!
 
You have to admit it was at least somewhat rude to claim I had to "convince myself" of a position I sincerely hold, which was so passive aggressive a way of calling me intellectually dishonest it made me mad because here, you can just call me a faggot if you feel like it. You don't have to be sneaky.

We're on opposing sides of a controversial issue, but that doesn't mean I don't respect you, and that doesn't mean I think you're dishonest. You're one of the few people here who has some finer grasp of law, which makes your point of view interesting. If I throw some barbs at you, it's nothing personal.

Just like this is nothing personal:
Josh is Mad at the Internet.jpg


It's just the internet, you know?
 
This situation seems reminiscent of Nixon vs Timothy Leary.

A narcissistic Leary with a brazen drug habit attempted to poke a deeply devious Nixon in the eye by mocking Operation Intercept. So Nixon lumped Leary's drug promotion with the burgeoning counter-culture. Lsd, a safe and pleasant drug at low dosage was banned. Nixon arrested Leary. Nixon crushed Leary.

Don't pick a fight with the executive branch, if you have no leverage.
 
I say good. Trump should revoke section 230. The internet was invented by the Jews anyways. Nothing like going to the library or opening a phone book. Same with smartphones. I hope the internet really does fucking go away. It was the worst invention ever, no matter what you people want to say about it. Maybe then people might go back to reading books or going outside for once. Same with smartphones. I fucking hate those things. Computers are also an entirely new invention that were designed to eavesdrop on people to begin with. Who was the fag Alan Turing? What was the Bombe? Or the Colossus? Computers were invented to spy on Nazi communications that used encrypted ciphers like the Enigma machine or the Lorenz cipher. The internet itself was invented by the Department of Defense. It's no wonder the NSA is spying on people. Of course they fucking would, because that's what computers and the internet was made for to begin with. Instead of making people smarter it makes them dumber. This social experiment was fun while it lasted guys, but then again, just remember that with Jews you ALWAYS lose, no matter how good it may seem on it's face.
Ouch the racism for Orange Man.
 
So sad this may be the end of KF... but alas, i guess there are other interesting forums with a owner with some balls? Dead Horse Interchange is too off-topic and unhinged, any tips for where to exoduss to?
 
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Would section 230 being repealed affect websites hosted in other countries or is it just American sites that would get bootyraped?

So sad this may be the end of KF... but alas, i guess there are other interesting forums with a owner with some balls? Dead Horse Interchange is too off-topic and unhinged, any tips for where to exoduss to?
If I understand correctly, if section 230 is repealed, all websites on the clearweb will have to enforce much stricter censorship. There will be nowhere to exodus to but maybe the darkweb if someone decides to break the law for the sake of free speech and host an illegal shitposting forum.
 
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I'll believe that section 230 being repealed isn't an idle threat once I see something more substantial about said repeal other than Trump talking tough on twitter. All I see so far is an EO that will, theoretically, fuck twitter in the ass if they don't stop their bullshit.
 
I can only imagine the arguments here if Citizens United were decided today.

Ironically, Citizens United more or less legalized what Twitter is doing when it interferes with elections. Prior to Citizens United, Twitter's conduct could have conceivably been prosecuted as illegal campaign contributions.
 
If I understand correctly, if section 230 is repealed, all websites on the clearweb will have to enforce much stricter censorship. There will be nowhere to exodus to but maybe the darkweb if someone decides to break the law for the sake of free speech and host an illegal shitposting forum.

That is an argument advanced by webhosts, ISPs, social media corporations. It's not a fact per se. In some ways, it's actually more of a threat to deter the public from touching § 230 (i.e., "if you take away our statutory privilege, we'll punish you by censoring you more, and you'll be sorry").

This is very similar to the arguments/threats Big Business makes when legislators threaten to end illegal immigration, impose tariffs, or close tax loopholes., etc. For example, if we don't accede to Big Business demands for illegal "guest workers" or lower tariffs on their 3rd world imports, Big Business always threatens that "we'll forced to raise prices" and "the costs will be passed on to the consumer." Similarly, if we ever try to raise taxes on corporations or impose labor restrictions, they reflexively threaten to "move our headquarters to a more business-friendly country." Blah, blah, blah. It's the white collar equivalent of throwing a tantrum. Of course these companies can't and won't follow through on their threats, because they want to stay in business. If we deported illegals, imposed tariffs, etc., Big Business might take a haircut, but pretty much every U.S Citizen would be better off, and life would simply go on.

Similarly, tech companies typically threaten to increase moderation, close their comment sections, or quit if 47 U.S.C. § 230 is repealed. Obviously, § 230 is a windfall for anyone in the web-based social media industry, no doubt about it. If it were repealed, the industry would throw a massive bitch fit, and some people/businesses might quit out of spite. But the internet would go on. Yes, social media sites would incur litigation costs like literally every other business does, and they'd have to figure out a way to manage that. And yes, social media sites would have to walk a fine line between publishing defamatory smears and censoring speech. But the best companies will figure it out, and the internet would go on. If Josh quits Kiwi Farms, some dedicated genius will open up the Pineapple Plantation, and he'll find a way to make it work.

That being said, Section 230 does protect some legitimate policy interests. IMO, it should be amended and improved upon. But there's no reason to give social media sites blanket immunity simply by virtue of their status. As I like to say, "absolute immunity begets absolute impunity."

Ironically, Citizens United more or less legalized what Twitter is doing when it interferes with elections. Prior to Citizens United, Twitter's conduct could have conceivably been prosecuted as illegal campaign contributions.

In your opinion, was that case correctly decided?
 
Ironically, Citizens United more or less legalized what Twitter is doing when it interferes with elections. Prior to Citizens United, Twitter's conduct could have conceivably been prosecuted as illegal campaign contributions.

That's pretty much what I was insinuating, with a side of "I suspect that people who are OK with what Twitter is doing were supposedly not OK with how Citizens United turned out."
 
Yes, social media sites would incur litigation costs like literally every other business does, and they'd have to figure out a way to manage that. And yes, social media sites would have to walk a fine line between publishing defamatory smears and censoring speech. But the best companies will figure it out, and the internet would go on. If Josh quits Kiwi Farms, some dedicated genius will open up the Pineapple Plantation, and he'll find a way to make it work.
Do you realize how hard it is for Null to keep the site running? His entire family received death threats, Vordrak's group of loonies spent a year harassing them, they tried to pin terrorist threats on Null (the incident where Vordrak called a school and said he would bomb them comes to mind) and a tranny even showed up at his mom's door with a knife. He's under constant threats of lawsuits, his reputation is ruined and people want him behind bars. He basically had to flee the country. The protection that section 230 gives us is the only thing keeping this forum afloat because if someone could come after Kiwifarms legally, they definitely would. People have spent thousands of dollars trying to take us down already.

For someone to open Pineapple Plantation, they would need to have balls of steel.
 
In your opinion, was that case correctly decided?

I'm rather ambivalent about it. I share the opinion of the majority that spending on political campaigns is essentially a form of speech, at least for most such activities, although it is hard to say that a campaign donor who donates equally to both sides is actually expressing a political opinion instead of just a desire that whoever gets elected does their bidding. If the Court is going to make a mistake about free speech issues, though, I would prefer it err on the side of more rather than less freedom. Possibly CU erred on the side of freedom.

It is one of many things (including Section 230) that has enabled Twitter specifically and social media in general to become a cancer on the body politic.

The protection that section 230 gives us is the only thing keeping this forum afloat because if someone could come after Kiwifarms legally, they definitely would.

The strength of 230 is why only the most impotent and stupid of nuts has even tried lawfare against us. Even the crazies we piss off that would definitely go after us without it know it's a total waste of their time. There is not a quicker or cheaper way of disposing of lawsuits against the site than Section 230.

Even litigating other well-established immunity defenses like DMCA can get into the tens of thousands of dollars, e.g. Monsarrat's frivolous suit against ED and Zaiger.

Section 230 is quite simply the gold standard for such legislation and if it can be improved, it can't be improved enough to warrant even touching it, considering the danger of doing so.

That is an argument advanced by webhosts, ISPs, social media corporations. It's not a fact per se.

It is nearly universally advanced by all advocates of Section 230, regardless of their status, from First Amendment scholars like Volokh on down.

The real problem isn't that Section 230 exists and immunizes platforms, it's that these platforms are allowed to censor at all. We don't need to punish users by forcing platforms to censor them. Instead, there should be a prohibition of the actual problematic behavior, which is these platforms being allowed to censor at all. There is no reason Twitter should be allowed to engage in viewpoint discrimination while having a monopoly on its form of social media.

The proper way to deal with offensive content, whoever is offended, is to provide users with tools to block content they don't like, not prevent everyone, including people who want to see that content, from seeing it.
 
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