TV Tropes community

[vertexwindi]

A dissonant moment would be a more appropriate name, but I can understand why there would be an article on that. What does it have to do with big lipped alligators, though?

It's a Nostalgia Chick quote.

 

[Pointless Pedant]

It's a forced Nostalgia Critic joke that's aged really poorly. He reviewed some movie with a musical number starring a big-lipped alligator that never appears afterwards, and then started throwing a "BIG-LIPPED ALLIGATOR MOMENT" banner on any inexplicable scene like that.

It's a Nostalgia Chick quote.

I feel sorry for you that you know that.

So TV Tropes named one of their articles after a joke from Channel Autism. It's possible, if TV Tropes stays popular into the 2020s, that that article name will be one of the main things left from Doug Walker's legacy. Already I expect a lot of people reading TV Tropes don't get it, given TGWTG hasn't really been popular since the early 2010s.

Imagine.

 

[GethN7]

I don't understand why you bothered to make a copy of TV Tropes. A wiki about how stories are put together could be interesting, but it's best done with explanations written in plain English, not with lists of code named things which mostly aren't even real tropes. Literary tropes are language devices like metaphors and analogies, not a "Badass Longcoat" or a "Big Lipped Alligator Moment" (seriously, what the hell is that)?

I respect your honest criticism. I actually agree with you on that one, it is a rather silly term that isn't very descriptive of what it actually means, and has aged very poorly.

If you want, you can propose we change it on ATT, and we'll give any alternative proposal an honest look, my word on it.

And one of our co-founders wrote a blog post on your very point on how in many ways were are still just as bad as TV Tropes, and if you can help us suck a little less, then by all means, we'd welcome the help.

 

[Pointless Pedant]

I respect your honest criticism. I actually agree with you on that one, it is a rather silly term that isn't very descriptive of what it actually means, and has aged very poorly.

If you want, you can propose we change it on ATT, and we'll give any alternative proposal an honest look, my word on it.

And one of our co-founders wrote a blog post on your very point on how in many ways were are still just as bad as TV Tropes, and if you can help us suck a little less, then by all means, we'd welcome the help.

Thank you for responding calmly.

It's not really a question of the term ageing poorly, it's that it was never accurate in the first place. I don't know when people started to use it that way, but we're even seeing it on this forum with people talking about "anime tropes" in the Alex Mahan thread.

I know this is a major departure from what you do, but really the main thing I suggest is enforcing notability. If you didn't let cartoon spergs write pages on their My Little Pony fanfiction longer than the page on Paradise Lost, there would be a lot less autism around the site, both because of the lack of MLP fanfiction itself and because the kind of people who write MLP fanfiction would be driven elsewhere. Unless a fan fiction is licensed or extremely notorious like My Immortal, it shouldn't really be on the site. It's not notable for understanding storytelling in general because barely anyone reads it.

There's no way the article on this:

http://allthetropes.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_Equestria

Should be longer than this:

http://allthetropes.wikia.com/wiki/The_Tale_of_Genji

But it is, by an enormous extent.

For crying out loud, a fanfiction of a MLP fanfiction has a longer article than the Romance of the Three Kingdoms.

http://allthetropes.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_Equestria_Project_Horizons_(Fanfic)

http://allthetropes.wikia.com/wiki/Romance_of_the_Three_Kingdoms

Could you link to the blog post?

 

[GethN7]

Thank you for responding calmly.

It's not really a question of the term ageing poorly, it's that it was never accurate in the first place. I don't know when people started to use it that way, but we're even seeing it on this forum with people talking about "anime tropes" in the Alex Mahan thread.

I know this is a major departure from what you do, but really the main thing I suggest is enforcing notability. If you didn't let cartoon spergs write pages on their My Little Pony fanfiction longer than the page on Paradise Lost, there would be a lot less autism around the site, both because of the lack of MLP fanfiction itself and because the kind of people who write MLP fanfiction would be driven elsewhere. Unless a fan fiction is licensed or extremely notorious like My Immortal, it shouldn't really be on the site. It's not notable for understanding storytelling in general because barely anyone reads it.

Thing is, we still defend that principle, but we found a better way to keep it from becoming a problem.

We take our "don't type one handed" rules far more seriously for one. We pared back a LOT of creepy sexual rambling for one (and still continue to do so, we ARE NOT a Fetish Fuel hive), a lot of forum roleplays have been tossed into the ether because even TV Tropes doesn't cover them all that much, to this day we are still tossing out creepy stuff or nonexistent fan work material.

It's done us a lot of good keeping out the creeps and TV Tropes still keeps the mass majority of the types who will write far more about Fallout Equestria instead of War and Peace, and frankly, that suits us fine, most of us are people who enjoy actual works that will stand the test of time.

Also, here's Brent's blog post:

http://blog.brentlaabs.com/2014/02/troping-considered-harmful.html

 

[Pointless Pedant]

Thing is, we still defend that principle, but we found a better way to keep it from becoming a problem.

We take our "don't type one handed" rules far more seriously for one. We pared back a LOT of creepy sexual rambling for one (and still continue to do so, we ARE NOT a Fwtish Fuel hive), a lot of forum roleplays have been tossed into the ether because even TV Tropes doesn't cover them all that much, to this day we are still tossing out creepy stuff or nonexistent fan work material.

It's done us a lot of good keeping out the creeps and TV Tropes still keeps the mass majority of the types who will write far more about Fallout Equestria instead of War and Peace, and frankly, that suits us fine, most of us are people who enjoy actual works that will stand the test of time.

I think you might still have a few creeps hanging around.

http://allthetropes.wikia.com/wiki/Kodomo_no_Jikan

I'm not saying that doesn't deserve an article, but the coverage devoted to a creepy cartoon is pretty extensive. From the YMMV page:

• Fetish Fuel Station Attendant: Take your pick of the main three girls. No matter the choice, you'll at least get a loli with Rapunzel Hair. Who you choose will decide whether you also get a:
  • S-Class Zettai Ryouiki Tsundere that wears revealing clothing for her age;
  • Cute Clumsy Meganekko who is more developed than everyone else her age;
  • Or an Elegant Gothic Lolita Schoolgirl Lesbian who doubles as a Cosplay Pettanko.

 

[GethN7]

I think you might still have a few creeps hanging around.

http://allthetropes.wikia.com/wiki/Kodomo_no_Jikan

I'm not saying that doesn't deserve an article, but the coverage devoted to a creepy cartoon is pretty extensive. From the YMMV page:

I'll look into that, you have my word.

Also, I took your suggestion for the BLAM trope:

https://allthetropes.org/w/index.ph...d=tnon4y6nmojsws5u#flow-post-tnon4y6nmojsws5u

Finally, I'm gonna be frank considering our Wikia fork. Unlike our Miraheze fork, it gets a lot of Wikia fandom runoff and generally serves as a containment vessel. Our Miraheze fork is much more tightly curated and I try to invite the better contributors to post on Miraheze as well.

Edit: I think you might appreciate this:

http://allthetropes.wikia.com/index.php?title=Kodomo_no_Jikan/YMMV&diff=311539&oldid=19568

 

[Pointless Pedant]

I'll look into that, you have my word.

Also, I took your suggestion for the BLAM trope:

https://allthetropes.org/w/index.ph...d=tnon4y6nmojsws5u#flow-post-tnon4y6nmojsws5u

Finally, I'm gonna be frank considering our Wikia fork. Unlike our Miraheze fork, it gets a lot of Wikia fandom runoff and generally serves as a containment vessel. Our Miraheze fork is much more tightly curated and I try to invite the better contributors to post on Miraheze as well.

Edit: I think you might appreciate this:

http://allthetropes.wikia.com/index.php?title=Kodomo_no_Jikan/YMMV&diff=311539&oldid=19568

Thank you. It would help a lot if you scrubbed all the TGWTG trope names, if there are any others. I really don't think most new users will get them at this point. I'm less bothered by stuff like "Cerebus Syndrome", since Cerebus the Aardvaak was a reasonably well known comic which I've actually heard referenced in real life, but having references to has-been internet reviewers from 2009 makes the wiki difficult to understand.

Allthetropes.org has the exact same creepiness in the Kodomo no Jikan YMMV section.

https://allthetropes.org/wiki/Kodomo_no_Jikan/YMMV

 

[GethN7]

Thank you. It would help a lot if you scrubbed all the TGWTG trope names, if there are any others. I really don't think most new users will get them at this point. I'm less bothered by stuff like "Cerebus Syndrome", since Cerebus the Aardvaak was a reasonably well known comic which I've actually heard referenced in real life, but having references to has-been internet reviewers from 2009 makes the wiki difficult to understand.

Allthetropes.org has the exact same creepiness in the Kodomo no Jikan YMMV section.

https://allthetropes.org/wiki/Kodomo_no_Jikan/YMMV

Already fixed. Took a bit of a blowtorch to the main page as well, will be mirroring the change on both sites.

However, let me make something clear: We work on a consensus basis, meaning we put everything to a vote. I will not unilaterally change all trope names you don't like on a whim and force it on others, I will let the community give their opinions before making changes.

I'm subject to the same policy as would be any other editor on ATT, and I will not break with that.

 

[Pointless Pedant]

Already fixed. Took a bit of a blowtorch to the main page as well, will be mirroring the change on both sites.

However, let me make something clear: We work on a consensus basis, meaning we put everything to a vote. I will not unilaterally change all trope names you don't like on a whim and force it on others, I will let the community give their opinions before making changes.

I'm subject to the same policy as would be any other editor on ATT, and I will not break with that.

I wasn't expecting you to unilaterally change all the trope names, just suggesting that I'm probably not the only one who was confused by some of them.

What changes did you make to the main page?

Having read the blog post, it seems there was a massive fuss on TV Tropes over the Japanese word "nakama", friend. I don't understand why they would use a foreign word for something so universal.

Except, of course, :autism:.

 

[GethN7]

I wasn't expecting you to unilaterally change all the trope names, just suggesting that I'm probably not the only one who was confused by some of them.

What changes did you make to the main page?

Having read the blog post, it seems there was a massive fuss on TV Tropes over the Japanese word "nakama", friend. I don't understand why they would use a foreign word for something so universal.

Except, of course, :autism:.

Mostly removed some over excessive detail on some sexual stuff, cut out some links to it as well.

As for the foolishness over that Japanese term, it was during the time of the "weeaboo" phase of TV Tropes, where the aforementioned weebs were resistant to any anime scented term getting a name change, even if it would be more logical to give it a sensible name.

The predecessor attempt to All The Tropes was born by Jack Butler (who as I understand had a burning hatred of the weeaboo types), who if you ask me went a bit too far in the other direction, but I'll admit his logic about how things should be more clear and not excessively laden with anime terminology just for the sake of people who hate change struck me as wise, and while I'm an admitted anime fan, I also like things to be understandable.

We forked at a time when TV Tropes was in the process of cleaning a lot of this up, so we may have a lot more artifacts of that admittedly cringeworthy time, which I'd be happy to look into.

 

[Pointless Pedant]

Mostly removed some over excessive detail on some sexual stuff, cut out some links to it as well.

As for the foolishness over that Japanese term, it was during the time of the "weeaboo" phase of TV Tropes, where the aforementioned weebs were resistant to any anime scented term getting a name change, even if it would be more logical to give it a sensible name.

The predecessor attempt to All The Tropes was born by Jack Butler (who as I understand had a burning hatred of the weeaboo types), who if you ask me went a bit too far in the other direction, but I'll admit his logic about how things should be more clear and not excessively laden with anime terminology just for the sake of people who hate change struck me as wise, and while I'm an admitted anime fan, I also like things to be understandable.

We forked at a time when TV Tropes was in the process of cleaning a lot of this up, so we may have a lot more artifacts of that admittedly cringeworthy time, which I'd be happy to look into.

Weeabooism on TV Tropes was a phase? I thought it was eternal.

I still don't understand how the concept of friendship became associated with Japanese cartoons. Wait, no, I do. Japanese cartoons were the only experience Tropers ever had of it.

 

[SuperSheep]

Weeabooism on TV Tropes was a phase? I thought it was eternal.

It waxes and wanes. While over-obsession with anime is eternal, there are points where people take a step back, look at all the anime-inspired names that don't make any sense to anyone outside of an anime fan site, and start renaming things so that its presumably English-speaking core audience can understand what the hell people are talking about as to make it more accessible to potential new people.

 

[Pointless Pedant]

It waxes and wanes. While over-obsession with anime is eternal, there are points where people take a step back, look at all the anime-inspired names that don't make any sense to anyone outside of an anime fan site, and start renaming things so that its presumably English-speaking core audience can understand what the hell people are talking about as to make it more accessible to potential new people.

For all that I complain about TV Tropes, they don't usually use Japanese words instead of English ones where there's an easy English translation. It's sobering to think that it used to be even worse in that regard.

Continuing the theme of "stupid creepy articles that shouldn't exist", here's an article on "Absolute Territory". No, this isn't the territory of absolute monarchies, it's the bare legs of an often underage girl.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ZettaiRyouiki

This page is thousands of words long.

How does this remotely constitute a trope? This website isn't a wiki on how to write fiction, it's an index of masturbation aids for stinking autistic neckbeards.

 

[Replicant Sasquatch]

How does this remotely constitute a trope? This website isn't a wiki on how to write fiction, it's an index of masturbation aids for stinking autistic neckbeards.

Even at its best as a fiction-writing guide it falls short. Good writing isn't putting together lego pieces with trope names on them.

 

[Pointless Pedant]

Even at its best as a fiction-writing guide it falls short. Good writing isn't putting together lego pieces with trope names on them.

I agree, but you'd at least expect it to try to serve that purpose, however poorly. That article wasn't even trying.

 

[SuperSheep]

Even at its best as a fiction-writing guide it falls short. Good writing isn't putting together lego pieces with trope names on them.

TVTropes has a tug-of-war relationship between posters who want to use it as a fiction writing guide and those who use it as a catalogue. I side more with the cataloguers, because I don't think you can make an effective "how-to" writing guide on a website written by randos on the internet.

 

[Pointless Pedant]

TVTropes has a tug-of-war relationship between posters who want to use it as a fiction writing guide and those who use it as a catalogue. I side more with the cataloguers, because I don't think you can make an effective "how-to" writing guide on a website written by randos on the internet.

I don't think you can either, but I also think it doesn't speak well of your website if you have a massive article perving over female cartoon characters' legs. What you choose to catalogue is important.

 

[GethN7]

I don't think you can either, but I also think it doesn't speak well of your website if you have a massive article perving over female cartoon characters' legs. What you choose to catalogue is important.

I just went through our Miraheze article on this very topic, and I saw maybe two examples of pervy drooling, now removed. The rest is just ticking off all the times it appears in media.

I do want to point out I defend having an article on it at all because it's common enough in media to be tropable, while still not common enough to the point of "People Sit On Chairs" to be pointless to catalogue.

And I do need to add, fine, I grant you it is pretty autistic to fixate on all the time in happens in media, point duly noted, but as long as it's just basic information about when it shows up in a work and not written as a masturbation aid, I don't see the problem otherwise.

FYI, thing about troping sites is that the cataloguing all the times media show a certain trope is what they do. Complaining about it is like hitting tropers for breathing. It becomes a problem when it turns into a creepy jacking off exercise, and if you guys see it on my sites, point it out and I'll apply the flamethrower to it.

 

[Replicant Sasquatch]

I just went through our Miraheze article on this very topic, and I saw maybe two examples of pervy drooling, now removed. The rest is just ticking off all the times it appears in media.

I do want to point out I defend having an article on it at all because it's common enough in media to be tropable, while still not common enough to the point of "People Sit On Chairs" to be pointless to catalogue.

And I do need to add, fine, I grant you it is pretty autistic to fixate on all the time in happens in media, point duly noted, but as long as it's just basic information about when it shows up in a work and not written as a masturbation aid, I don't see the problem otherwise.

FYI, thing about troping sites is that the cataloguing all the times media show a certain trope is what they do. Complaining about it is like hitting tropers for breathing. It becomes a problem when it turns into a creepy jacking off exercise, and if you guys see on my sites, point it out and I'll apply the flamethrower to it.

Yeah I don't really mind the ruthless cataloging of trope examples. That is kind of the point of the site, even if it reaches autistic levels.

For me, the real humor in TVTropes is how these people try using these nonsense jargon words as normal parts of their vocabulary. Talking in tropes (which I'm sure is a trope in itself) is annoying and no decent fiction writer should ever do it.