TV Tropes community

  • 🏰 The Fediverse is up. If you know, you know.
  • Want to keep track of this thread?
    Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
    Create account
Not from the forums, but given what Lily Wachowski retconned about the original Matrix film, might as well post what they consider to be the film's Misaimed Fandom:


"The term Redpilled is nowadays used by a great number of right-wing people who claim that they have woken up to how the world really is (mostly in regards to feminism or racism). Red was the colour of premarin, a pill commonly prescribed to transgender women in the 1990s. Both Wachowskis have since come out as trans women, i.e. woken up to who they really are. Word of God says that it was intentional. Red pillers adopting this imagery is pretty hilarious."
 
I've heard it put more pointedly as "the Matrix is the story of a white computer nerd learning from a woman and a black man that everything he thinks about how the world works is wrong, as told by two trans women." It certainly is pretty funny that anytime a famous person uses the "redpill" term on Twitter one of the Wachowskis shows up and tells them they're a fucking idiot.
 
Not from the forums, but given what Lily Wachowski retconned about the original Matrix film, might as well post what they consider to be the film's Misaimed Fandom:


"The term Redpilled is nowadays used by a great number of right-wing people who claim that they have woken up to how the world really is (mostly in regards to feminism or racism). Red was the colour of premarin, a pill commonly prescribed to transgender women in the 1990s. Both Wachowskis have since come out as trans women, i.e. woken up to who they really are. Word of God says that it was intentional. Red pillers adopting this imagery is pretty hilarious."
I've heard it put more pointedly as "the Matrix is the story of a white computer nerd learning from a woman and a black man that everything he thinks about how the world works is wrong, as told by two trans women." It certainly is pretty funny that anytime a famous person uses the "redpill" term on Twitter one of the Wachowskis shows up and tells them they're a fucking idiot.
Someone needs to write a bot that just posts White Rabbit by Jefferson Airplane at them whenever the Wachowskis say retarded shit like that. It's as bad as JK Rowling saying Hermione was black.
 
Not from the forums, but given what Lily Wachowski retconned about the original Matrix film, might as well post what they consider to be the film's Misaimed Fandom:


"The term Redpilled is nowadays used by a great number of right-wing people who claim that they have woken up to how the world really is (mostly in regards to feminism or racism). Red was the colour of premarin, a pill commonly prescribed to transgender women in the 1990s. Both Wachowskis have since come out as trans women, i.e. woken up to who they really are. Word of God says that it was intentional. Red pillers adopting this imagery is pretty hilarious."
So what does that mean about all the Jesus and Christian imagery they put in the film? Is that pretty hilarious in its irony that two trans women are using so much of it?
 
Last edited:
I've heard it put more pointedly as "the Matrix is the story of a white computer nerd learning from a woman and a black man that everything he thinks about how the world works is wrong, as told by two trans women." It certainly is pretty funny that anytime a famous person uses the "redpill" term on Twitter one of the Wachowskis shows up and tells them they're a fucking idiot.

Good God, they gone the JK. Rowling route. Yeah like this clearly isn't something that they pulled out of their asses just to look woke, we swear 🙄
 
So what does that mean about all the Jesus and Christian imagery they put in the film? Is that pretty hilarious in its irony that two trans women are using so much of it?
I always do find it funny how often in american pop culture there is a Christ like saviour present in action movies.Its funny because the biblical Jesus was as close to a hippie as you could get in roman times.Having your character be a Jesus analogue has always been weird in an action movie.It does say something about how americans imagine Jesus though.Or what kind of Jesus they want.
 
I always do find it funny how often in american pop culture there is a Christ like saviour present in action movies.Its funny because the biblical Jesus was as close to a hippie as you could get in roman times.Having your character be a Jesus analogue has always been weird in an action movie.It does say something about how americans imagine Jesus though.Or what kind of Jesus they want.
I don't view Jesus as an action hero. I don't know way people do that here.
 
I always do find it funny how often in american pop culture there is a Christ like saviour present in action movies.Its funny because the biblical Jesus was as close to a hippie as you could get in roman times.Having your character be a Jesus analogue has always been weird in an action movie.It does say something about how americans imagine Jesus though.Or what kind of Jesus they want.
It's part of reformulating media as the American secular religion. Though I would argue that the Messiah archetype seen in modern media isn't Christian. Jesus was no hippie, but this is unlike his teachings nonetheless. It's more akin to the Jewish Moshiach, who was supposed to be a warrior who killed the enemies of Zion.
 
I always do find it funny how often in american pop culture there is a Christ like saviour present in action movies.Its funny because the biblical Jesus was as close to a hippie as you could get in roman times.Having your character be a Jesus analogue has always been weird in an action movie.It does say something about how americans imagine Jesus though.Or what kind of Jesus they want.
Messianic archetypes are older than Christianity. Look at the Old Testament, Moses is an example of one. Although yes it is an Abrahamic motif although there's non-Abrahamic versions too like Buddha Maitreya or Kalki (final avatar of Vishnu).
It's part of reformulating media as the American secular religion.
Messianic archetypes have nothing to do with secular religion unless you think the popularity of King Arthur in medieval England was an attempt to take away from the popularity of the Bible.
 
Messianic archetypes have nothing to do with secular religion unless you think the popularity of King Arthur in medieval England was an attempt to take away from the popularity of the Bible.
The fact that modern leftoids derive the full extent of their virtue from mass media (superhero movies, Star Wars, and Harry Potter) should tell you that it's more of a problem than that.
 
Messianic archetypes are older than Christianity. Look at the Old Testament, Moses is an example of one. Although yes it is an Abrahamic motif although there's non-Abrahamic versions too like Buddha Maitreya or Kalki (final avatar of Vishnu).

Messianic archetypes have nothing to do with secular religion unless you think the popularity of King Arthur in medieval England was an attempt to take away from the popularity of the Bible.
Moses is not completely like a messianic archetype as understood today.The messianic archetype either has some messsianic elements ie rise from the dead or can do godlike things heal the sick either that or lazily the character will be pretty much spelled out as being Jesus.Someone is gonna call them 'Jesus' or they'll be presented as the saviour of humanity with some obvious initials JC or the trully lazy version have him talk to a preacher while a Jesus portrait is hanging in the back occupying half the screen.Its weird though how in american culture this character type is usually reserved for action movies.You rarely see it in anything else.Then again considering gun ownership levels in the US there might be a direct correlation between this and 'Jesus' in America is an action hero killing everyone instead of trying to change their ways.
 
Having a hero who advocates some form of good behavior, goes through some sort of suffering or setback, but then returns stronger and triumphs is a pretty obvious part of any sort of good-v-evil story. Pointing out that these characters can be interpreted as "Christ figures," but not why you should care, is what lazy 10th grade English teachers do in lieu of actually teaching anything useful about literature. So people who never got beyond that point intellectually see them everywhere and in true TVTropes fashion think that writing a story about a "Christ figure" means something if the story isn't otherwise good.
 
I always do find it funny how often in american pop culture there is a Christ like saviour present in action movies.Its funny because the biblical Jesus was as close to a hippie as you could get in roman times.Having your character be a Jesus analogue has always been weird in an action movie.It does say something about how americans imagine Jesus though.Or what kind of Jesus they want.
I think you mean, "say something about HOLLYWOOD imagines Jesus." You can try watching some actual Jesus movies for at least a slightly more accurate gauge of what american Christians actually believe.

i.e. I know Paul said "robocop is the american jesus" - well he's not american so what does he know? Plenty of Christians just like it because it's a pretty badass and fun film.

You ever see those paintings of him on the cross? Dude's ripped as fuck. Swole Jesus murdered for your sins.

Yeah, because the word for "carpenter" in their language is "worker with hard substances" which would include wood and...... stone! (Jesus, OG stonemason) Guess which Israel has a lot more of.

Try working with rock for a few years with their tool set and see if you don't get ripped too.

What I ment is, I don't seeing him going all Rambo on somebody. Not that he's not buff.

Someone needs to flip to Revelation. There's whole chapters on that.

Its weird though how in american culture this character type is usually reserved for action movies.You rarely see it in anything else.

You.... have not seen many movies have you? Here to bring this back on track, have fun:
 
I think you mean, "say something about HOLLYWOOD imagines Jesus." You can try watching some actual Jesus movies for at least a slightly more accurate gauge of what american Christians actually believe.

i.e. I know Paul said "robocop is the american jesus" - well he's not american so what does he know? Plenty of Christians just like it because it's a pretty badass and fun film.



Yeah, because the word for "carpenter" in their language is "worker with hard substances" which would include wood and...... stone! (Jesus, OG stonemason) Guess which Israel has a lot more of.

Try working with rock for a few years with their tool set and see if you don't get ripped too.



Someone needs to flip to Revelation. There's whole chapters on that.



You.... have not seen many movies have you? Here to bring this back on track, have fun:
Which christian movies would those be 'Kirk Cameron's Saving Christmas/God's not dead/Last ounce of courage'?The fact that this archetype is popular among audiences does mean that it appeals at least to some extent to a portion of the population in the US.Hollywood may have its agenda but importantly they also do a constant analysis of what the public likes.You can't honestly state to speak for every christian in America.David Koresh was a christian and honestly he probably wasn't that much more nuts than Kenneth Copeland(who judging by how rich he is he must have a sizeable audience).Classic biblical movies have largely gone out of favour ever since the late 50's the era of Ben Hur with a few exceptions.'Christian' cinema in the US with the exception of 'mormom' movies tends to be quite interesting to watch but its not exactly flattering for the people making it.The truth is persons who take their christian faith in the US somewhat more seriously do have a strong undercurrent of paranoia.There is this strong tendency towards fear ever since 9/11.Lets be honest here just go to the web profile of someone from Texas and see how often they not only cherish their guns but also give strong hints towards their willingness to use them.That says something about the people.It does hint towards a strong paranoia because swedish gun lovers and there are many because guns are not that hard to buy in Sweden rarely if ever emphasise their willingness to shoot someone even as a joke.Of course in Sweden you usually have to be a gun club member to buy guns and if you emphasise a shoot first ask questions later attitude that puts everyone else in a negative light.And in this case the popularity of the Rambo Jesus kind of makes sense.So yes the feeling of fear and loss of place in America that christians are starting to feel at least as an undercurrent might explain partially why in Man of steel Superman is pretty much shown as a Jesus.White guy from Kansas feeling lost in the world a post-9/11 world yes it does tie into that if you think about it.
 
Last edited:
Which christian movies would those be 'Kirk Cameron's Saving Christmas/God's not dead/Last ounce of courage'?

That those are the only films you can name proves how little of the culture you're aware of. I mean you could start with one of the biggest blockbusters of all time - Passion of the Christ. You have classic plays like Jesus Christ, Superstar. Controversial films like the Last Temptation of Christ. Just plain classics like Ben-Hur or the Greatest Story every Told. Have you even heard of Risen?

The fact that this archetype is popular among audiences does mean that it appeals at least to some extent to a portion of the population in the US.Hollywood may have its agenda but importantly they also do a constant analysis of what the public likes.

I never even said it was unappealing. I outright said "Plenty of Christians just like it because it's a pretty badass and fun film." Please point to the words in that quote which say anything about it being unappealing.

Your fault is the assumption of why it's appealing to people. Like some alien looking at humans and declaring, "Oh they must like steak because of it's sweet, sweet taste." No, candy and ice cream are enjoyed for their sweetness - steak is enjoyed for a different tastes.

You can't honestly state to speak for every christian in America.

Neither can you. And I bet I can speak for a whole lot more of them than you can. Have you even bothered looking at any purported Christian reviewers just to check their reactions to stuff? Ever seen: "Oh I love this movie so much because the protagonist is such a kick-ass Jesus" written in a review?

David Koresh was a christian and honestly he probably wasn't that much more nuts than Kenneth Copeland(who judging by how rich he is he must have a sizeable audience).Classic biblical movies have largely gone out of favour ever since the late 50's the era of Ben Hur with a few exceptions.

Seriously, are you capable of hitting the space bar after a '.' ? Anyway, nobody is denying that hollywood stopped producing historical epics, or explicitly religious films. Haven't seen any sign of hollywood being that religious since.... well pretty much the 50s.

'Christian' cinema in the US with the exception of 'mormom' movies tends to be quite interesting to watch but its not exactly flattering for the people making it.The truth is persons who take their christian faith in the US somewhat more seriously do have a strong undercurrent of paranoia.

What happened to "can't honestly state to speak for every Christian in america"? Don't recall you being elected Pope or anything.

There is this strong tendency towards fear ever since 9/11.Lets be honest here just go to the web profile of someone from Texas and see how often they not only cherish their guns but also give strong hints towards their willingness to use them.That says something about the people.
Yeah, I've had neighbors attacked by animals. Can't imagine why they want to own guns. And that's not even a veiled reference to the riots, I mean real, ACTUAL animals have attacked them. Or their pets.

There's other lives and considerations outside your tiny little bubble. Maybe step outside it once in awhile and check the reality rather than leaping to conclusions.

It does hint towards a strong paranoia because swedish gun lovers and there are many because guns are not that hard to buy in Sweden rarely if ever emphasise their willingness to shoot someone even as a joke.Of course in Sweden you usually have to be a gun club member to buy guns and if you emphasise a shoot first ask questions later attitude that puts everyone else in a negative light.And in this case the popularity of the Rambo Jesus kind of makes sense.

Yeah I'd look up what the sweedish box office numbers are for movies but... nobody seems to care.

So yes the feeling of fear and loss of place in America that christians are starting to feel at least as an undercurrent might explain partially why in Man of steel Superman is pretty much shown as a Jesus.White guy from Kansas feeling lost in the world a post-9/11 world yes it does tie into that if you think about it.
yeah that's why Superman in his film died and came back to life--

Oh wait.

Don't get me wrong, I facepalmed at Zack Snyder's clumsy hamfisted attempt at symbolism*, but if that's all it takes for you to go "hur dur, it's jesus!" then you're a worse autist than any of the TVTropes folks. (or possibly a baby - that would explain the lack of a spacebar) There was literally nothing else Jesus like about supes in that film. He doesn't even die or come back to life until Justice League - oh yeah, which was a flop.

Here, let me help you out: A society's religion is a sort order of that society's moral values. The venerated figures of that religion will be those who best embody those moral values. THEREFORE if that society makes a story about heroic, laudable figures, those figures are going to trend towards similarities with the venerated religious figures.

I mean, by your standards, I could go on and on about the Jesus imagery with films like "Kick" or "Baahubali" - which are from Bollywood. That is India. Or Anime (and I don't mean the obvious stuff like NGE) - which is from Japan. Neither nation which is known to have massive Christian populations, especially in their film industries. Try harder n00b.

*Zack should have consulted an actual priest for what they might say to superman since the guy in the film sounded more like a priest of the church of Oprah than any actual Christian denomination.
 
Back
Top Bottom