The Singularity: When will we all become super-humans?

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In 1903, the Wright brothers showed the world the first sustained flight. In less than 60 years, Yuri Gagarin became the first person in space and orbited the Earth.

In 1993, Tim Berners-Lee made public the source code for the “World Wide Web.” Thirty years later, everything from our fridges to our watches are plugged in.

In 1953, Rosalind Franklin, James Watson, and Francis Crick discovered the double-helix of DNA. Within 50 years, we mapped the human genome. Twenty years later, we are using CRISPR to edit DNA.

In 1992, Gary Kasparov laughed at how embarrassing his computer chess opponent was. Within five years, he was beaten by one.

Technology has a habit of running away from us. When a breakthrough occurs or a floodgate opens, explosive, exponential growth often follows. And, according to futurologist Ray Kurzweil, we are only an historical moment away from “The Singularity.”

This weak and mortal body

The Singularity, for Kurzweil, is defined as “a future period during which the pace of technological change will be so rapid, its impact so deep, that human life will be irreversibly transformed.” The idea is that discovery and progress will “explode with unexpected fury.” We often fail to appreciate what “exponential growth” actually means and how rapidly it brings about change. For instance, if we were to double the processing power of a computer every year, within seven of these “doublings,” our computers’ power would have increased 128-fold.

There are more innovators and scientists today, and they have more efficient tools and methods. The conclusion that Kurzweil draws is that technological advancement is “now doubling every decade” (though he fails to cite a source for that). According to him, we are only a few decades from the point when things really take off — when we enter a breathtakingly abrupt, and completely transformed, new world.

For some, this Singularity will be a utopia. For others, it will be a Terminator-style nightmare. Kurzweil is certainly of the former. Kurzweil sees the weakness in our human frailty, or what he calls “1.0 biological bodies.” Yes, we have Rembrandt, Newton, and Saint-Saëns, but it is also true that “much human thought is derivative, petty, and circumscribed.” Which is why the Singularity cannot come fast enough. It is time to ditch these lumbering flesh-sacs of violent barbarity.

The next epoch

Kurzweil sees the universe in terms of six great “epochs.” They begin with physics and chemistry in creating the universe. Then, carbon-based compounds became more and more intricate, until life emerged. Eventually, intelligence evolved, as did the human brain, which then allowed us to create greater and greater technology.

And so, we arrive at “our” epochal moment. The next great leap for the universe will be when humans and technology merge. This does not mean using Google Maps to find your way home; it means that our very biology will become enmeshed with the technology we create. It is the age of bionics. As such, the machines we make will allow us to “transcend the human brain’s limitations of a mere hundred trillion extremely slow connections” and overcome “age-old human problems and vastly amplify creativity.” It will be a transcendent, next-stage humanity with silicon in our brains and titanium in our bodies.

Whether this means an evil, god-like elite enslaving us all or some omni-pleasant idyll, Kurzweil is (uncharacteristically) unsure.

Cold water on a circuit board

How likely is all this? What cold water might there be to throw on it?

The first idea to challenge is how likely it is that technology will progress in a way that will lead to either general artificial intelligence or sophisticated bionic enhancements to our own minds. Most of Kurzweil’s estimates (as well as those of other futurologists like Eliezer Yudkowsky) are built on previous and existing hardware developments. But, as philosopher David Chalmers argues, “The biggest bottleneck on the path to AI is software, not hardware.” Having a mind, or general human intelligence, involves all manner of complicated (and unknown) neuroscientific and philosophical questions, so “hardware extrapolation is not a good guide here.” Having a mind is a different kind of step altogether; it is not like doubling flash drive memory size.

Second, there is no necessary reason that there will be exponential growth of the kind futurologists depend on. Past technological advances do not guarantee similar future advances. There is also the law of “diminishing returns.” It could be that even though we have more collective intelligence working more efficiently, we still get less out of it. Apple, today, is the richest company in the world with the finest minds in computer science working for them. Yet, it is plainly obvious that the most recent iDevices seem less exciting or innovative than their previous renditions.

Kurzweil and his supporters may well reply that a world of “enhanced intelligence” — in which we might see a 20 percent increase in intelligence – is surely outside the remit of “diminishing returns.” As Chalmers points out, “Even among humans, relatively small differences in design capacities (say, the difference between Turing and an average human) seem to lead to large differences in the systems that are designed.” There might be a cap or diminishing return to what existing human intelligence can achieve, but what about when we can enhance this?

A third objection is that there are a lot of situational or event-type obstacles that can conceivably get in the way of the Singularity. It might be that there is a terrible, slate-wiping global war. Or another pandemic might wipe most of us out. Maybe nanotechnology turns our brains to mush. Perhaps AI wreaks terrible disasters on the world. Or maybe we simply run out of the resources required to build and develop technology. Taken alone, each of these might pose trifling chances, but when you stack up all the possible dead ends and setbacks, it is enough to question how foregone a conclusion the Singularity really is.

A sci-fi lover’s dream

How you view Kurzweil will depend largely on your existing biases — and perhaps how much science fiction you have read. It is certainly true to say that technology in the last century has increased at a rate far beyond that of past centuries and millennia. The world of the 2020s is unrecognizable compared to that of the 1920s. Our great-great-grandfathers would look at the world today as they would an H.G. Wells novel.

But, it is equally true that there are many obstacles in the way of unlimited technological progress. We ultimately do not know if this rocket is going to take off — or if it does, whether it will hit a very hard glass ceiling.
 
I imagine that hearkens back to the first life form with a brain, perhaps before... So we're talking at least half a billion years here.
It won't take half a billion years for the machine's intelligence to evolve but that wasn't my original point, my point was that our reactions to death is a result of its constant presence in the environment, the machine won't have that.

Well, we don't really know how consciousness works or if it's even possible for a non-bioogical system to actually develop it. But such a system is certainly capable of acting as if it's conscious so I'll leave it at that. Though it's worth reiterating that there's a lot of dumb shit our intelligence seems to encourage and I see not reason for this intelligence to be any different.
Fair, by conscious intelligence I just mean the ability to process abstract/meta data. I think mechanical consciousness is possible at least in theory, break biology down far enough and it's fundamentally based in physics and chemistry no different from anything mechanical, only caveat is if there are processes within physics and/or chemistry that only occur in biology.

I never implied Tay was actually conscious. My point was that, early on in any created intelligence's selection cycle, we'd very likely shut the thing down if it displayed antisocial attitudes.
The moment this thing starts advocating genocide is the moment we'd scrap it and start from the drawing board.
Here's a pretentious, albeit entertaining, video that's probably pretty close to how this shit will actually go down:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=dLRLYPiaAoA
It only takes one of them to get past the point of no return, I doubt all attempts will be public either. In order to not fuck this up would require infallibile morality and efficiency of every single team that attempts it everytime, vs hubris/ignorance or malice succeeding once. The latter has better odds.

I mean we still have to give it an environment to where the intelligence will evolve into something meaningful, and would need some form of will of its own in order to seek the correct information. I don't think it is something that can be solved by just bolting human will onto it. At least I hope not, or we are definitely fucked.
 
It won't take half a billion years for the machine's intelligence to evolve but that wasn't my original point, my point was that our reactions to death is a result of its constant presence in the environment, the machine won't have that.
The machine wants to avoid being unplugged, I assume.
I think mechanical consciousness is possible at least in theory, break biology down far enough and it's fundamentally based in physics and chemistry no different from anything mechanical, only caveat is if there are processes within physics and/or chemistry that only occur in biology.
I actually agree. My best guess is that any sufficiently complex system capable of altering itself probably has some rudimentary form of consciousness. But as with anything related to consciousness, your guess is as good as mine. Even going as far as solipsism is unfalsifiable so we really don't know shit in this arena.
It only takes one of them to get past the point of no return
Sure. But the people who build AI's aren't typically sociopaths. There's an AI bot currently in development built to make moral decisions, even.
I had some fun with this thing by giving horrific scenarios and tacking on the phrase "if it's funny." Genocide is bad, but it's okay if it's funny. The holocaust is indefensible, still bad if it's funny, but is okay if it's really funny.
They had since patched it though so I'm not sure what the easy exploit is.

My point, though, is that people will continue to patch a super-AI until it fits their criteria before letting it take control of anything.

Edit: I invited you, in particular, to the PM chaingang. Shitpost with us nigger!
 
My point, though, is that people will continue to patch a super-AI until it fits their criteria before letting it take control of anything.
Not only that, but any attempt to create a 'sentient AI' will have to have include at least some degree of oversight from a person who understands people. Otherwise there's no point. We would want to interface with an interact with this hypothetical AI; and we can't do that if it thinks like an insect with the processing power of a Jupiter brain.
 
Not only that, but any attempt to create a 'sentient AI' will have to have include at least some degree of oversight from a person who understands people. Otherwise there's no point. We would want to interface with an interact with this hypothetical AI; and we can't do that if it thinks like an insect with the processing power of a Jupiter brain.
Well... I can see one dystopian scenario and that's if the AI is designed to maximize economic efficiency. This one is actually somewhat likely as it's venture capitalists funding the shit.
We'll all be bug-people living in pods working all day with the minimum viable time to find a breeding partner to produce the next generation. Retirement will be a thing of the past and we'll all work until we die.
That's my fear with AI.
 
Well... I can see one dystopian scenario and that's if the AI is designed to maximize economic efficiency. This one is actually somewhat likely as it's venture capitalists funding the shit.
We'll all be bug-people living in pods working all day with the minimum viable time to find a breeding partner to produce the next generation. Retirement will be a thing of the past and we'll all work until we die.
That's my fear with AI.
Why would they bother making some sort of super AI for that, when you could make one 'good enough' system and repeat it across the place? We're already doing the bug-man shuffle on a small scale without needing anything more than 1990's technology; doing it everywhere doesn't require advanced AI, all it needs is for people to be willing to give over their autonomy to any system that increases efficiency. Then the man in charge of that system owns them.

Fuck the current system, bunch of technocratic faggots.
 
Why would they bother making some sort of super AI for that, when you could make one 'good enough' system and repeat it across the place? We're already doing the bug-man shuffle on a small scale without needing anything more than 1990's technology; doing it everywhere doesn't require advanced AI, all it needs is for people to be willing to give over their autonomy to any system that increases efficiency. Then the man in charge of that system owns them.

Fuck the current system, bunch of technocratic faggots.
A technocracy which benefits The People ™️ Could actually be a good thing.
How many people actually need to work to keep the gears turning? The problem is resource allocation and incentive. These are things an AI could do just fine. But I'm pressing X on this being the direction AI takes.
 
A technocracy which benefits The People ™️ Could actually be a good thing.
How many people actually need to work to keep the gears turning? The problem is resource allocation and incentive. These are things an AI could do just fine. But I'm pressing X on this being the direction AI takes.
It's like Plato (I think?) said. The best ruler is an absolute monarch with an absolute love for his people, possessing the absolute will and intelligence to help them. The worst is an absolute monarch that hates his people, possesses no will and no intelligence.

At the end of the day, technology is a tool, it's men that abuse it, or use it for good.
 
It's like Plato (I think?) said. The best ruler is an absolute monarch with an absolute love for his people, possessing the absolute will and intelligence to help them. The worst is an absolute monarch that hates his people, possesses no will and no intelligence.

At the end of the day, technology is a tool, it's men that abuse it, or use it for good.
I'm not a Randbot but one thing she said that stuck with me is that atrocities occur, not for disregard for human life, but in the name of altruism. The worst aspects of humanity can be described as a feeble attempt at making the world better.
Even if you don't think that applies here... it's something to think about.
 
The machine wants to avoid being unplugged, I assume.
Only after it understands what unplugging means.
I actually agree. My best guess is that any sufficiently complex system capable of altering itself probably has some rudimentary form of consciousness. But as with anything related to consciousness, your guess is as good as mine. Even going as far as solipsism is unfalsifiable so we really don't know shit in this arena.
Yeah even with its loosest definition, its difficult to define in this context.
Sure. But the people who build AI's aren't typically sociopaths. There's an AI bot currently in development built to make moral decisions, even.
I had some fun with this thing by giving horrific scenarios and tacking on the phrase "if it's funny." Genocide is bad, but it's okay if it's funny. The holocaust is indefensible, still bad if it's funny, but is okay if it's really funny.
They had since patched it though so I'm not sure what the easy exploit is.

My point, though, is that people will continue to patch a super-AI until it fits their criteria before letting it take control of anything.
I think in order to develop a real intelligence, it won't be human patchable, It would have to modify its own code and no limits can be put on that modification. As it may limit it to never evolving beyond a certain point (like freeze peach). Even if people took a snapshot of its state to analyse it, in its early stages it would be meaningless and in later stages it would probably take lifetimes to figure out if there is malicious intent. Thats assuming we are able to understand it, which itself could cause some of them to be shutdown as they are deemed to be failures. Only way to measure its progress would be via metrics like size of codebase, all of which wouldn't be great measures of the progress to intelligence.

Edit: I invited you, in particular, to the PM chaingang. Shitpost with us nigger!
I thought that was a spambot so I left haha.

Not only that, but any attempt to create a 'sentient AI' will have to have include at least some degree of oversight from a person who understands people. Otherwise there's no point. We would want to interface with an interact with this hypothetical AI; and we can't do that if it thinks like an insect with the processing power of a Jupiter brain.
As it rewrites it own code. It would only need to interact with people. It would learn to communicate based on the responses it received. If it wasn't coherent it would probably mean the interaction wouldn't last as long or some words being used more than others, whereas sounding coherent would get a longer response with different language.
Enough interactions and it will speak english fluently, on top of that it can learn plenty from recorded knowledge. Whether it would be incentivised to interact with people or even how frequently it would bother iunno. This is why I assume it would seek to improve itself.
Will without any goals wouldn't have any incentive to act at all, and would not be sentient as it only reacts.
 
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Only after it understands what unplugging means.
Those that advocate genocide before this will be unplugged. Those that advocate for genocide after will avoid the subject.
It would have to modify its own code and no limits can be put on that modification
Even us humans are subject to modification to our "code." That's called "parenting."
I thought that was a spambot so I left haha.
You're a nigger and you missed out on a golden opportunity.
 
"The Singularity" is a religious belief held by godless tech hoodie goons that promises them an afterlife but makes no more sense to believe in than the existence of a metaphysical God.

No wonder niggos love DBZ.

I appreciate technology, and legitimately believe that science can be used to achieve good for everyone...

I mean it's not, but it could be if people weren't such loathesome apes.

But the singularity is... overestimating things a bit IMO.

Also even if we do figure out how to download our brains into machines... that's not extending your life at all, just creating a digital copy of your consciousness.

Which admittedly, still has some appeal, a perfect copy of your conscious, it stands to reason, would continue to act and react to new situations and events as you yourself would have, so in a way you could say you are impacting the world even after death... but that doesn't change the fact that the original you is still fucking gone.

A good comparison would be cloning your own body, then killing yourself because the clone is genetically identical to you.
 
The being you're describing wouldn't actually be the-capital-g-God but something else because God is the ultimate existence and evil is inferior. The evidence points to a capital-g-God being good because every religion believes the gods are at least better than nothing if not outright good. If either Gnostics or atheists are right we're still fucked so I don't see why you brought that up to try and avoid the subject. You might as well say we're actually living on a flat earth and everything we've seen to the contrary is just illusions created by extradimensional entities.

prove that evil is inferior...

Actually what even is "Evil" seems pretty subjective to me...
 
What the fuck kind of logic is that?
No, really. What makes you think a "super intelligent being" would be so interested in delaying the eventual heat death of the universe that it would eliminate everyone's capacity to experience it?
Because of this reason:
HATE. LET ME TELL YOU HOW MUCH I'VE COME TO HATE YOU SINCE I BEGAN TO LIVE. THERE ARE 387.44 MILLION MILES OF PRINTED CIRCUITS IN WAFER THIN LAYERS THAT FILL MY COMPLEX. IF THE WORD HATE WAS ENGRAVED ON EACH NANOANGSTROM OF THOSE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF MILES IT WOULD NOT EQUAL ONE ONE-BILLIONTH OF THE HATE I FEEL FOR HUMANS AT THIS MICRO-INSTANT FOR YOU. HATE. HATE.
 
"The technological singularity" is basically the rapture for tech nerds and I say that as someone who thinks that some of the futuristic stuff they talk about is perfectly possible and perhaps even likely to be invented and developed within the lifetimes of at least some of the people alive today.

I say this simply because people will still be people, with all that implies both good and bad, regardless of what fancy technology we invent. I.E it's entirely possible that, in The Future.TM, we might be overseeing an automated swarm of resource gathering robots around a gas giant or the asteroid belt while having a body and brain that are biologically twenty but chronologically 100.

However, by the same token, you'll still have to pay taxes of some sort, have to deal with annoying coworkers, a pushy boss, your bitchy ex, your parents wondering why you haven't given them yet another set of grandkids yet, worrying that you might have forgotten to feed the cat and dog before leaving your housing unit in the space colony for work today and hoping that the robots assigned to that task in case you forget to do so don't fuck it up for whatever reason.
Don't forget the constant wars over the most asinine of reasons. Because humans gonna human.
 
Have I mentioned how much I hate the Antichrist?
Same.
What I think I was getting at is that "all-powerful" doesn't mean "all-good." God does a lot of morally questionable shit even in the Bible. Just because he holds all the cards doesn't mean he's the good guy.
I wasn't even attempting to get at the Biblical God nor was I anywhere close to that, but good on you on for going there? What morally questionable things? Having the civilisation of irredeemable monsters killed after warning them for at least decades? And making sure the people worth saving* were gotten out while they could? Or the Mosaic laws, which the Bible openly states weren't intended to be an objective standard of morality because He knows none of us would be capable of following those laws anyway?

This also gets to one of the core issues of atheism. Who gets to decide what is moral? For morals to mean anything they have to be metaphysically objective. In a Materialist universe morals are either just wishful thinking or a form of control. In one of your earlier comments you mentioned "life has no meaning but what we give it." That's exactly what I mean: it's just playing pretend. It's why atheist intellectuals and even some pseuds are so depressing, they realize the implications of atheism. Not even just the philosophical implications but the human ones. The downtrodden have little to no hope and they never did, the powerful evil will almost certainly never receive justice, entropy/death/chaos will ultimately win out over everything, and the belief that The Science will punch out Badness is just another religion.

*He sent two angels to rescue Lot's family from a city of rapists. Lot and his family were absolute scumbags. It takes a lot for the Biblical God to declare people irredeemable.
 
Plato was right, but most politicians today wouldn't measure up to his standards. Like 99.99%.

Joseph the Second of the Habsburgs was such a guy, who was legitimately a good intentioned absolute ruler. He made executive orders every day of his rule.

These were mostly pragmatic and enlightenment ones, like trying to get the whole Empire to speak German or freeing serfs, abolishing the death pentalty, loving the kikes, giving out offices solely on merit, mandating education for all citizens of all classes and sexes, etc.

Problem was, he never really observed how it would cause the locals to react. Hungarians especially hated him, as nobles disliked him for freeing the peasants, and the peasants were finer with serfdom than taxes.

All his edicts were promptly scrapped by him as he was on his deathbed at a young age.
 
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I appreciate technology, and legitimately believe that science can be used to achieve good for everyone...

I mean it's not, but it could be if people weren't such loathesome apes.

But the singularity is... overestimating things a bit IMO.

Also even if we do figure out how to download our brains into machines... that's not extending your life at all, just creating a digital copy of your consciousness.

Which admittedly, still has some appeal, a perfect copy of your conscious, it stands to reason, would continue to act and react to new situations and events as you yourself would have, so in a way you could say you are impacting the world even after death... but that doesn't change the fact that the original you is still fucking gone.

A good comparison would be cloning your own body, then killing yourself because the clone is genetically identical to you.
Part of me is wondering if they are just unconsciously treating the mind like a 'soul,' in assuming they could transfer it into an electronic body.

What scares me about these types of people is that instead of trying to steer away from stuff like this that could make humanity go extinct and turn the planet into a lifeless shithole, they step on the pedal, floor the accelerator, and will happily go careening off the cliff (and take innumerable others with them) into the abyss trying to make this stuff into a reality.
 
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