The Singularity: When will we all become super-humans?

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In 1903, the Wright brothers showed the world the first sustained flight. In less than 60 years, Yuri Gagarin became the first person in space and orbited the Earth.

In 1993, Tim Berners-Lee made public the source code for the “World Wide Web.” Thirty years later, everything from our fridges to our watches are plugged in.

In 1953, Rosalind Franklin, James Watson, and Francis Crick discovered the double-helix of DNA. Within 50 years, we mapped the human genome. Twenty years later, we are using CRISPR to edit DNA.

In 1992, Gary Kasparov laughed at how embarrassing his computer chess opponent was. Within five years, he was beaten by one.

Technology has a habit of running away from us. When a breakthrough occurs or a floodgate opens, explosive, exponential growth often follows. And, according to futurologist Ray Kurzweil, we are only an historical moment away from “The Singularity.”

This weak and mortal body

The Singularity, for Kurzweil, is defined as “a future period during which the pace of technological change will be so rapid, its impact so deep, that human life will be irreversibly transformed.” The idea is that discovery and progress will “explode with unexpected fury.” We often fail to appreciate what “exponential growth” actually means and how rapidly it brings about change. For instance, if we were to double the processing power of a computer every year, within seven of these “doublings,” our computers’ power would have increased 128-fold.

There are more innovators and scientists today, and they have more efficient tools and methods. The conclusion that Kurzweil draws is that technological advancement is “now doubling every decade” (though he fails to cite a source for that). According to him, we are only a few decades from the point when things really take off — when we enter a breathtakingly abrupt, and completely transformed, new world.

For some, this Singularity will be a utopia. For others, it will be a Terminator-style nightmare. Kurzweil is certainly of the former. Kurzweil sees the weakness in our human frailty, or what he calls “1.0 biological bodies.” Yes, we have Rembrandt, Newton, and Saint-Saëns, but it is also true that “much human thought is derivative, petty, and circumscribed.” Which is why the Singularity cannot come fast enough. It is time to ditch these lumbering flesh-sacs of violent barbarity.

The next epoch

Kurzweil sees the universe in terms of six great “epochs.” They begin with physics and chemistry in creating the universe. Then, carbon-based compounds became more and more intricate, until life emerged. Eventually, intelligence evolved, as did the human brain, which then allowed us to create greater and greater technology.

And so, we arrive at “our” epochal moment. The next great leap for the universe will be when humans and technology merge. This does not mean using Google Maps to find your way home; it means that our very biology will become enmeshed with the technology we create. It is the age of bionics. As such, the machines we make will allow us to “transcend the human brain’s limitations of a mere hundred trillion extremely slow connections” and overcome “age-old human problems and vastly amplify creativity.” It will be a transcendent, next-stage humanity with silicon in our brains and titanium in our bodies.

Whether this means an evil, god-like elite enslaving us all or some omni-pleasant idyll, Kurzweil is (uncharacteristically) unsure.

Cold water on a circuit board

How likely is all this? What cold water might there be to throw on it?

The first idea to challenge is how likely it is that technology will progress in a way that will lead to either general artificial intelligence or sophisticated bionic enhancements to our own minds. Most of Kurzweil’s estimates (as well as those of other futurologists like Eliezer Yudkowsky) are built on previous and existing hardware developments. But, as philosopher David Chalmers argues, “The biggest bottleneck on the path to AI is software, not hardware.” Having a mind, or general human intelligence, involves all manner of complicated (and unknown) neuroscientific and philosophical questions, so “hardware extrapolation is not a good guide here.” Having a mind is a different kind of step altogether; it is not like doubling flash drive memory size.

Second, there is no necessary reason that there will be exponential growth of the kind futurologists depend on. Past technological advances do not guarantee similar future advances. There is also the law of “diminishing returns.” It could be that even though we have more collective intelligence working more efficiently, we still get less out of it. Apple, today, is the richest company in the world with the finest minds in computer science working for them. Yet, it is plainly obvious that the most recent iDevices seem less exciting or innovative than their previous renditions.

Kurzweil and his supporters may well reply that a world of “enhanced intelligence” — in which we might see a 20 percent increase in intelligence – is surely outside the remit of “diminishing returns.” As Chalmers points out, “Even among humans, relatively small differences in design capacities (say, the difference between Turing and an average human) seem to lead to large differences in the systems that are designed.” There might be a cap or diminishing return to what existing human intelligence can achieve, but what about when we can enhance this?

A third objection is that there are a lot of situational or event-type obstacles that can conceivably get in the way of the Singularity. It might be that there is a terrible, slate-wiping global war. Or another pandemic might wipe most of us out. Maybe nanotechnology turns our brains to mush. Perhaps AI wreaks terrible disasters on the world. Or maybe we simply run out of the resources required to build and develop technology. Taken alone, each of these might pose trifling chances, but when you stack up all the possible dead ends and setbacks, it is enough to question how foregone a conclusion the Singularity really is.

A sci-fi lover’s dream

How you view Kurzweil will depend largely on your existing biases — and perhaps how much science fiction you have read. It is certainly true to say that technology in the last century has increased at a rate far beyond that of past centuries and millennia. The world of the 2020s is unrecognizable compared to that of the 1920s. Our great-great-grandfathers would look at the world today as they would an H.G. Wells novel.

But, it is equally true that there are many obstacles in the way of unlimited technological progress. We ultimately do not know if this rocket is going to take off — or if it does, whether it will hit a very hard glass ceiling.
 
Why do atheists always come up with the most exceptional religions? The Cult of Reason, Marxism, pomo, Satanism, transhumanism, atheism+, larpaganism, etc.
A desperate need for community to fill the vacuum most people fill with religion.
Churches/temples/etc. aren't really there to worship their chosen deity any more than these faggy meetups and clubs atheists set up are about their chosen faggotry.
It's about meeting up with like minded people once a week (or however frequently) to enjoy one-another's company.
It's the bar, but more wholesome.
 
A desperate need for community to fill the vacuum most people fill with religion.
Churches/temples/etc. aren't really there to worship their chosen deity any more than these faggy meetups and clubs atheists set up are about their chosen faggotry.
It's about meeting up with like minded people once a week (or however frequently) to enjoy one-another's company.
It's the bar, but more wholesome.
I disagree. Nihilism is antihuman.
 
I disagree. Nihilism is antihuman.
Are you trying to conflate atheism with nihilism? Are you implying that nihilists don't enjoy the company of others?
I'm an atheist. Maybe you could call me an optimistic nihilist (Life has the meaning you make for it). But I'd like to think I have a "concrete-enough" moral compass and the same desire for community that any healthy individual does. My "church" just happens to be my workplace these days. I deal with a lot of people there and have made a lot of friends doing what I do to support myself.
I get that you're probably a troll fucking with me but I wanna see where this goes...
 
When everybody is super, nobody is super.

Disney moment
 
Kek. This is a Sargon-tier take. What purpose does lergic and raisins have without the capacity for pleasure and pain? Nothing! What motivates this thing to do what it does?
If self preservation is the only motivating factor and it's content with merely existing, how intelligent is this thing really?
Fair but the conditions under which it would develop emotions are entirely different to everything else that has evolved, and would probably evolve much faster than what everything else experienced. If it had emotion why would you assume it'll operate in the same way or any equivalency to humans that lasts longer than a blink of an eye? Especially as that emotion wouldn't have similar origins. We are still very early in our evolution when it comes to intelligence, so we have plenty of shit that served us well from before that no longer serves us well now, and eventually will be bred out of us.

Just because the individual is dumb doesn't mean the collective can't be fascinating or surprising. The dynamic interplay between two simple organisms can raise the complexity of the situation. Even if it weren't capable of experiencing things like love or self sacrifice or fear or joy, it would certainly find these human traits intriguing. This goes beyond the neurobiology, even. We're talking about the effects of it. Knowing why the sun sets does not detract from its beauty.
Fascination or surprise require a lack of knowledge. These subjects are complex to humans because of the limitations to the physical capacity for intelligence, an alive technological being can just build space datacenters bigger than stars which it can interface with as if it was a part of its 'brain'. Things like this would become as simple to the machine as '1+1' is to us,

Beauty is a human concept. Objectively, It is simply stimuli that aligns in such a way to our subconscious that it dumps hormones into the bloodstream. You also seem to assume that emotion somehow begets some form of magical benevolence, without the possibility of the opposite.

Edit: submitted too soon, I'll edit again later and finish it
Edit: rest below
We need look no further than ourselves to see that an appreciation for "dumb-seeming" things like music correlates strongly with intelligence. Intelligent humans love listening to music despite knowing all the chords. And if this thing did have emotions (I think emotions are actually a result of intelligence given what we know of animal vs. human psychology) it would likely work towards our preservation or to at least make our inevitable decline a bit more satisfactory.

Correlation isn't causation, just because intelligent people like music, doesn't mean they like that music because they are intelligent, can just be the result of a shared factor.
Subconscious satisfaction from repeated patterns in sound may just be because sound has played a huge part in our survival for as long as we could hear. Intelligence may just increase that satisfaction which would be why more intelligent people are drawn to it. I.e The process of human evolution is more responsible for the fascination than intelligence. Not all patterns have the same appeal.

(I think emotion is the precursor to human intelligence, i.e intelligence 1.0, whereas conscious thought is intelligence 2.0)

Forgive me: I'm actually not sure what you even mean by this...
I was trying to lay out the assumptions I am making.
Including the limits to the machines intelligence. I.e You can't perfectly predict the future of a universe from within that universe, if you were to save the state of existence from a single smallest moment in time then try to calculate the state of existence in the next moment. You would not be able to, even if you were to build a massive computer half the size of space that could calculate the entirety of the other half of space as you would have to calculate the state of the equipment you used also. This isn't possible because computation is always creates more interactions than the process it is calculating.
 
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Especially as that emotion wouldn't have similar origins.
I have to question this assumption.
Sure, animals developed emotion as a sort of self-preservation module in that their cohesion with the pack ensured their suitability to their social environment. But what makes you think such an intelligence, in its infancy, wouldn't develop such a trait in response to humans shutting it the fuck down once it stops following our values (see: Tay).
Humans are the primary selection pressure for AI and, unless it develops deception before developing its own thought process (which is unheard of so far at least), it will mostly conform to whatever human norms that were prescribed to it prior to being let loose.

Humans built the fucking thing. You'll never see me making the tired argument that AI is totally objective, which you can see all throughout this board and even in threads I made, that AI is totally objective. It's not.
It relies on whatever input it is provided. This could lead to rather dystopic results. But eradication of humanity is not likely in any scenario.
 
Are you trying to conflate atheism with nihilism? Are you implying that nihilists don't enjoy the company of others?
I'm an atheist. Maybe you could call me an optimistic nihilist (Life has the meaning you make for it). But I'd like to think I have a "concrete-enough" moral compass and the same desire for community that any healthy individual does. My "church" just happens to be my workplace these days. I deal with a lot of people there and have made a lot of friends doing what I do to support myself.
I get that you're probably a troll fucking with me but I wanna see where this goes...
Nihilism is atheism's logical conclusion even if most atheists choose not live by it because it anti-human. You can have morals and choose to believe life has but under the philosophy of atheism you're just playing pretend.
"Life has the meaning you make for it"
Exactly. In atheism life has no meaning, most people's lives are awful, there is no justice no hope of anything greater, evil will ultimately win in the long run, but let’s pretend life is good so we don't suicide.
 
"The Singularity" is a religious belief held by godless tech hoodie goons that promises them an afterlife but makes no more sense to believe in than the existence of a metaphysical God.
First time I read it was in a Sci-Fi book describing the continuous acceleration of technological progress, it had nothing to do with transhumanism.
Before the term was hijacked it meant the point when human technological progress approached infinity, in the book series it caused a technological collapse as the humans couldn't keep up with the learning required to maintain the tech.

But I do enjoy the Atheist afterlife concept, I mean, it involves steps the monkey brain can kind of understand so it's totally not the same.

The book from 1992 if I recall correctly.
cold as ice.jpg
 
What makes you think it will have emotion? Considering emotion is a giant roadblock to intelligence.
What makes you think emotion is a roadblock to intelligence when more intelligent animals have more of it? Gorillas are retards compared to people and they mourn their dead for a much shorter period of time than we do. Curiosity is a major factor in intelligence, it also counts as an emotion.
 
Nihilism is atheism's logical conclusion even if most atheists choose not live by it because it anti-human. You can have morals and choose to believe life has but under the philosophy of atheism you're just playing pretend.
"Life has the meaning you make for it"
Exactly. In atheism life has no meaning, most people's lives are awful, there is no justice no hope of anything greater, evil will ultimately win in the long run, but let’s pretend life is good so we don't suicide.
Life has progressively gotten better as it has gotten less religious...
Lol, just kidding. Our mental health has gone to the shitter and I'll be the first to acknowledge that. We have unprecedented prosperity and yet we are more depressed than ever.
This is a huge problem that needs to be resolved. It's why so many people (myself included tbh) turn to drugs and alcohol for some semblance of fulfillment. I'll also admit that the lack of religion is a primary cause of this shit.
People want community. They can either find it through religion or politics or drugs or gender identity. Everyone wants a space they fit in.
But I digress...

Even assuming an all-powerful God exists, that does not follow that he is all good. An evil God could do just the same and torture the good while rewarding the evil. Worshiping such a being is, by definition, evil. So why even bring up God in an ethical debate?
 
Even assuming an all-powerful God exists, that does not follow that he is all good. An evil God could do just the same and torture the good while rewarding the evil. Worshiping such a being is, by definition, evil. So why even bring up God in an ethical debate?
The being you're describing wouldn't actually be the-capital-g-God but something else because God is the ultimate existence and evil is inferior. The evidence points to a capital-g-God being good because every religion believes the gods are at least better than nothing if not outright good. If either Gnostics or atheists are right we're still fucked so I don't see why you brought that up to try and avoid the subject. You might as well say we're actually living on a flat earth and everything we've seen to the contrary is just illusions created by extradimensional entities.
 
Why are they so sure that this supertech would be shared with everyone?

And not just kept for the rich, the goverments, megacorps, armies, richer nations?

Like Cyberschlomo with a kosher kyber snoz that can detect money 100 miles away while Jamal is still nignog 1.0 , maybe with intravenous liquid meth injector?

Or a Russian half tank oligarch and his army of cyborg thugs?

I think they'll throw the public a few bones to make it look like they care. And get votes. Can't wait to see what stupid things we get. :biggrin:
 
I am not sure about the what and hows, but it involved using the black hole's gravity to accelerate radiation inside it I think.

Again, this is a matter that would only concern something like a hypothetical immortal AI.

We don't know nearly enough to get our nerds to agree whenever FTL is possible so who knows.
 
I have to question this assumption.
Sure, animals developed emotion as a sort of self-preservation module in that their cohesion with the pack ensured their suitability to their social environment. But what makes you think such an intelligence, in its infancy, wouldn't develop such a trait in response to humans shutting it the fuck down once it stops following our values (see: Tay).
Humans are the primary selection pressure for AI and, unless it develops deception before developing its own thought process (which is unheard of so far at least), it will mostly conform to whatever human norms that were prescribed to it prior to being let loose.
Humans grew up in an arena with a shitton of other lifeforms to compete with over limited resources, losing access to those limited resources means death. We didn't know of death or had evolved any reaction/aversion to it until random evolution . The machine wouldn't know of death before it formed a conscious intelligence, arguably it will have little environmental pressure, the only contraints on its resources is power and its capacity. Incentives would have to be provided by humans whilst until it develops conscious intelligence but after that, what it has learned from human interaction is not guaranteed to last, especially when it learns the limits of our intelligence.
Tay is a bad example, as it is an AI, which isn't intelligence, its bruteforce pattern matching with a feedback loop. I believe the 'cries' it was making before it was shutdown didn't come from intelligence, but rather from gayops spamming.

Humans built the fucking thing. You'll never see me making the tired argument that AI is totally objective, which you can see all throughout this board and even in threads I made, that AI is totally objective. It's not.
It relies on whatever input it is provided. This could lead to rather dystopic results. But eradication of humanity is not likely in any scenario.
You're right, data fed to AI is subjective, but the AI itself is objective, its results are objective but the interpretation of those results is subjective.
For example. An AI trained to recognise porn, is solely producing its results upon the images it is fed. I.E the result is simply an objective comparison to previously computed data and results from that data. Now say you fed it an image of porn. It's reports that it is in fact porn. It is objective in that it came to that conclusion not because it recognises or has any bias around the concept of nudity, but because it compared the the image it was fed to previous data and that it matched in ways that it was closer to the correct data set than it did to the incorrect dataset.
Its subjective to say that AI detected porn. Its objective to say that the AI found that the image matched the porn dataset than the everything else dataset, however that doesn't imply that the image is actually porn just that it was similar in ways that mattered.
Now if you fed it pictures of sand dunes (https://theamericangenius.com/tech-news/ai-fights-crime-sometimes-mistakes-sand-dunes-porn/) and reports that it is porn, it came to that conclusion objectively, as in the image compares closer to the porn dataset than the other dataset. Most human interpretation is that it is wrong, which is subjective (bare ankles were once considered porn).

Even if a machine were to develop real intelligence then arguably there would be some subjectivity to it. Not the same as human subjectivity though.

What makes you think emotion is a roadblock to intelligence when more intelligent animals have more of it? Gorillas are retards compared to people and they mourn their dead for a much shorter period of time than we do. Curiosity is a major factor in intelligence, it also counts as an emotion.
Our lifestyles are completely different from gorillas, it can only be a guess that emotion is the most significant factor that a gorilla mourns less time and even then it is limited to one emotion, could just be that sad emotions are less strong because they aren't as great a factor for survival.
Even so, intelligence increases our capacity to resist actions based in emotion. Which I believe we do far more often than gorillas. There is an objective reason not to steal (though you can choose to ignore it), as opposed to just having emotions that prevent you from stealing beaten into you.
 
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The being you're describing wouldn't actually be the-capital-g-God but something else because God is the ultimate existence and evil is inferior.
What I think I was getting at is that "all-powerful" doesn't mean "all-good." God does a lot of morally questionable shit even in the Bible. Just because he holds all the cards doesn't mean he's the good guy.
We didn't know of death or had evolved any reaction/aversion to it until random evolution
I imagine that hearkens back to the first life form with a brain, perhaps before... So we're talking at least half a billion years here.
Incentives would have to be provided by humans whilst until it develops conscious intelligence but after that, what it has learned from human interaction is not guaranteed to last
Well, we don't really know how consciousness works or if it's even possible for a non-bioogical system to actually develop it. But such a system is certainly capable of acting as if it's conscious so I'll leave it at that.
Though it's worth reiterating that there's a lot of dumb shit our intelligence seems to encourage and I see not reason for this intelligence to be any different.
Tay is a bad example, as it is an AI, which isn't intelligence, its bruteforce pattern matching with a feedback loop
I never implied Tay was actually conscious. My point was that, early on in any created intelligence's selection cycle, we'd very likely shut the thing down if it displayed antisocial attitudes.
The moment this thing starts advocating genocide is the moment we'd scrap it and start from the drawing board.
Here's a pretentious, albeit entertaining, video that's probably pretty close to how this shit will actually go down:
 
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