Culture The perverse incentives that help incels thrive in tech - ex-reddit CEO ellen pao talks incels

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The world has recently become more terrifyingly aware of incels, which, if you don’t already know, stands for “involuntary celibate.” It’s an underground coalition of mainly men who complain about how society actively and unfairly deprives them of sex, often, they say, because they are too ugly or too fat.

It is, of course, nonsense. Incels are usually conspiracy theorists, not victims, who believe the world is purposely denying them their fundamental right to sex on demand—and who share many values and tactics with white supremacist, men’s rights, and alt-right groups. Self-declared incels encourage violent acts, including the “incel rebellion” in Toronto that killed 10 people and injured 20 more.

What hasn’t been discussed much is their presence in our everyday lives, including our workplaces. Like many groups of young men whose misogynistic beliefs gestate online, incels often work in the tech industry and in engineering—and because of tech’s long-standing, well-quantified lack of women and other underrepresented groups, it’s a natural fit.

Technology plays a central role for these hate groups, as a career and as a weapon. On incel forums, they pride themselves on their tech contributions; they joke that the world would collapse without them to maintain network infrastructures, and that their companies would fail without them. They move seamlessly among online hate group forums where racism and misogyny feed on one another.

Many large tech companies have unwittingly encouraged these groups in the name of unconstrained debate and “free speech.” Misguided advocates quote the late U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis—“Sunlight is the best disinfectant”—to argue that open platforms will expose and show the wrongness of hate and terrorism. Instead, though, what we’ve learned from platforms ranging from Reddit and Twitter to GoDaddy and Cloudflare is that public exposure consistently normalizes, encourages, and amplifies these beliefs.

I hear every day from tech employees and executives, and many tell me in painstaking detail about how hate groups are using tech platforms and workplace communities to spread their ideas, onboard new recruits, and train them on how to execute these ideas in their companies. In an industry with predominately white men as employees and leaders, and a hands-off approach to monitoring speech and behavior, hate groups have a huge advantage. They weaponize communications and interactions, setting traps to use as fodder for complaints, trolling, and, in some cases, litigation.

Others expressed concerns about thought policing. After all, whatever goes on in somebody’s head is their own business. And that’s true—until they act on it. Consider how these ideas are directed at weaponizing interactions between incels and others targeted by gender. And how the group intends to spread the behavior and push boundaries as far as they can. Sometimes their misogyny can be hard to spot—like a microaggression inflicted on a coworker. Other times it manifests itself very clearly. We’re not talking about ideas here; we’re talking about employee safety. We don’t allow groups of employees to congregate in person to hurt others; why would we allow it online? Why is it that, when hate takes shape online, people automatically allow it as freedom of expression? Shouldn’t we respond to behavior that is intended to harm others, regardless of where and how it happens?

Incels can be vicious, and dealing with them head-on can be intimidating. When I tweeted a simple question—“CEOs of big tech companies: You almost certainly have incels as employees. What are you going to do about it?”—I got almost 3,000 replies, and many were insults and threats from incels. I also received more than 2,000 likes. And I heard from others who worked with incels at tech companies who were afraid to speak publicly, but expressed support—and a need for action.

One woman told me about an incel at her tech company, and she described a horrifying situation: He started stalking coworkers, going so far as to hide his mobile phone in the bathroom to video female employees using the toilet. He later used the captured video to intimidate, threaten, and harass his colleagues.

The modern workplace—especially in tech—isn’t prepared to deal with these kinds of interactions. When inappropriate behavior is reported to managers or HR, bad actors rarely face serious consequences. In this case, I heard that complaints to HR went unheeded, and the situation escalated, making HR and the company look increasingly foolish for ignoring warning signs.

The tech environment’s star system is a big part of the problem. We hear time and time again about stars getting second, third, or more chances after complaints about their behavior. Instead of addressing the core problem, CEOs delegate to HR, which usually tries to address short-term symptoms by pushing out the person who speaks up. As a result, they compound the core problem, as fewer people see value in speaking up, bad actors feel even more empowered to harass coworkers, and others follow their example.

What should we do? As leaders or managers, our job is to create a productive environment for employees with, at a minimum, physical and emotional security. Aspirationally we want our culture to allow everyone to contribute their best, most meaningful work. In both cases, that absolutely entails creating a diverse and inclusive culture—and that means rooting out and banning incel beliefs.

Ultimately leaders need to lead, even if it’s uncomfortable.

In 2015, as Reddit’s CEO, I was able to start changing the culture both internally and externally. We had just come out of a painful period in which we enabled the widespread viewing of unauthorized nude photos of celebrities on the site. In the office, we prided ourselves on an open culture that reflected our product, exemplified most memorably for me in a 45-minute-long, company-wide discussion comparing the aesthetics of penises and breasts.

Changing Reddit’s culture was an ongoing, multistep process. I invited outside speakers to talk to our team about diversity and inclusion. CEOs like Y Combinator's Michael Seibel, Coinbase’s Brian Armstrong, and Stellar’s Joyce Kim described their successes through the lens of diversity and inclusion. We held an all-hands focused on change; Freada Kapor Klein and Mitch Kapor led a session on culture and anti-harassment and anti-discrimination, including dos and don’ts of behavior and interactions. Afterward, several women reported having been harassed by coworkers; we tried to address each situation individually through conversations and warnings, and the problem in aggregate through ongoing monitoring and values reinforcement. And it seemed to work: No one sued us, and, six months later, the same women said they were satisfied with changes in behavior and interactions.

At the same time, I enforced our values, especially around privacy, on the Reddit website. We were the first major site to ban unauthorized nude photos and revenge porn. A few months later, we banned the five most harassing subreddits—and a study showed we were effective in reducing hate speech.

What I learned was pretty simple, but effective internally and externally: 1. Make your company values and codes of conduct (internal and external) clear. Write them down and share them. 2. Build multiple paths for raising concerns and reporting violations, and make them easy to understand and easy to take. 3. Learn about violations as early as possible, especially ones that can escalate. You should focus on solving the actual problem, not trying to hide its symptoms.

Back then, pre-#MeToo and pre-Susan Fowler, I felt like my efforts were not valued by many, especially when I was fired. But I have no regrets. If we don’t lead and address these problems proactively, they won’t go away. Any conversation that values one group of people less than others is inappropriate for the workplace, because it almost certainly conflicts with company values. Conversations encouraging unwanted, misogynistic actions on others should also be banned. Using our company’s workspaces—physical ones, virtual ones, tools, and platforms—to spread this kind of thinking should be a fireable offense. We cannot allow employees to mobilize identity-based intolerance, much less against their own coworkers.

Tech workers know incels and the like expertly wield our companies’ innovations to attack the vulnerable. Employees also know those toxic beliefs are shared by more coworkers than many of us realize—and they’re willing to push to end them. When a group of Google employees teamed with investors this month to put inclusion on the Google shareholder ballot, they stated that workers were “feeling unsafe and unable to do our work.” Their initiative wasn’t particularly controversial except for its format, which forced management to confront these issues publicly and reactively.

Now, what actions do you plan to take to address the incels in your workforce and to protect your employees and culture—before you don’t have a choice anymore?

https://www.wired.com/story/ellen-pao-the-perverse-incentives-that-help-incels-thrive-in-tech
 
Didn't this idiot run multiple companies into the ground due to incompetence and was fired for it?
 
Didn't this idiot run multiple companies into the ground due to incompetence and was fired for it?

A lot of people think she was hired onto reddit as an easy scapegoat a few years ago, while the company restructured itself, to take some hate and then leave after the changes finished. I haven't gone on the site in a couple years, but I believe everything that people hated about her was kept or expanded after she left and that she never signed on as anything more than an interim CEO.

Jesus Christ she is a cunt though. Also, why does everyone treat "Conspiracy theorist" as a derogatory term? Do they really believe everyone should just be accepting of whatever is told to them and never investigate anything further? I'm sure the people who thought Nixon was spying on reporters, NSA was taking in private information, or Saudi Arabia supplied the 9/11 terrorist attacks fall under the label "Conspiracy theorist." Why is believing a conspiracy is happening or information is being withheld something that you criticize people over, especially when they are often willing able to offer up their documented proof.
 
The reason so many incels are in the industry is that they are more likely than the average person to be ok with sacrificing huge amounts of personal time and any semblance of a normal life so they can spend more time coding for the current sprint.

That's all. No big mystery. Dweebs without girlfriends don't care as much about losing their free time, because they were just going to spend it in front of a screen anyway.
 
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Didn't this idiot run multiple companies into the ground due to incompetence and was fired for it?

Nah, she was a middling pseudo-secretary (chief of staff) at a Silicon Valley venture capitalist firm until she filed a gender discrimination lawsuit after shitting where she ate, was summarily fired, and later lost her lawsuit in a jury trial on all counts.

Then Yishan made her interim CEO at reddit (for whatever reason), and she was an obvious fall guy, as she knew literally nothing about the platform (she tried linking people to her personal messages and had to have CSS explained to her) and was openly antagonistic towards the users. Ever since she left reddit she's basically been on that professional victim/diversity consultant gig so many high profile Women in Tech seem to prefer to actual technical careers.
 
She actually said that there needs to be "emotional security" in the workplace.

Emotional security.

I have absolutely nothing to add to that.
 
She actually said that there needs to be "emotional security" in the workplace.

Emotional security.

I have absolutely nothing to add to that.
Sometimes people feel so shit that they think they might cry, because a project or release is behind schedule or close to a cut-off date & managers are up your ass. The point is to not break though, so that you look like you can take it, versus the whiny cunt who does break and cry about it on the job. The feelings are normal, but being a professional means keeping your emotions in check and reconciling them in private later.
 
The "Incel Panic" continues, generating hysteria amongst those who are easily riled and prone to hysteria. We're facing a wave of incel terrorism, supposedly yet it's notable that there's maybe two or three whole "incel" incidents in like ten years.

The message is clear from Pao's artice - any suspected group that makes upper middle class white and Asian women vaguely uncomfortable should have all resources of society marshaled to crush them. Also: males in tech, you had better toe the line if you want to remain employed or we might suspect YOU are an incel as well.
 
The "Incel Panic" continues, generating hysteria amongst those who are easily riled and prone to hysteria. We're facing a wave of incel terrorism, supposedly yet it's notable that there's maybe two or three whole "incel" incidents in like ten years.

The message is clear from Pao's artice - any suspected group that makes upper middle class white and Asian women vaguely uncomfortable should have all resources of society marshaled to crush them. Also: males in tech, you had better toe the line if you want to remain employed or we might suspect YOU are an incel as well.
Don't forget about the dangers that awful Freeze Peach yields.
 
Stop giving Incels legitimacy by taking them seriously. Legitimacy and calling it a "panic" is the worst thing possible for these attention whore losers.
 
Daily reminder, this is what they fear so much:

images
 
The "Incel Panic" continues, generating hysteria amongst those who are easily riled and prone to hysteria. We're facing a wave of incel terrorism, supposedly yet it's notable that there's maybe two or three whole "incel" incidents in like ten years.

The message is clear from Pao's artice - any suspected group that makes upper middle class white and Asian women vaguely uncomfortable should have all resources of society marshaled to crush them. Also: males in tech, you had better toe the line if you want to remain employed or we might suspect YOU are an incel as well.

Incels by definition are already rejected by women. But that's not good enough! Now comes the demand that someone else... what, remove "incels" from the workforce so their very presence doesn't trigger the super-sensitive, laughably neurotic women who have already rejected them? How does that make any sense? How weak and pathetic are these women?

I think this is just a new tactic to assign "problematic" men to an outgroup while the stronk, independent wahmen scream louder that they need someone else (read: other men and/or the mob) to save them from a "new" boogeyman. In other words, the ratcheting up of the hysteria is literally the point. It's just another way for nutter dangerhairs to stay in control (and in the "victim" role) through manipulation.

Which, it should be noted, is an extreme and extremely feminine thing to do, the worst kind of female behavior. We're hardwired to want to protect women in danger which is why these absurd claims of danger work on so many stupid and desperate men.

Daily reminder, this is what they fear so much:

images
To be fair, Captain N did a lot of damage with his Zapper and belt-mounted controller.
 
The word incel is used like twice in this article. It's just more anti white male dangerhair reeeeing trying to use scary incel boogymen for legitimacy.
 
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