The Official Simpsons Griefing Thread

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Travoltron said:
I've tried to pinpoint the Jump the Shark moment on The Simpsons, but I can't. It was a a slow, almost imperceptible decline. I can't remember which came first, the Jockey Elves or the cruel death of Maude Flanders, but it was around that time that I knew the show was dead.
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Another factor to add to the list, the death of Phil Hartman who voiced Lionel Hutz and Troy McClure. Sorry Gil, but even Lionel Hutz is a better lawyer than you. There's others fan who also pinpoint to the Principal and the Pauper where Skinner was Armin Tazmarian who show a sign of decline.
 
Travoltron said:
I've tried to pinpoint the Jump the Shark moment on The Simpsons, but I can't. It was a a slow, almost imperceptible decline. I can't remember which came first, the Jockey Elves or the cruel death of Maude Flanders, but it was around that time that I knew the show was dead.
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When was that stupid ass Episode where Lisa became a Vegitarian?
 
Honka Honka Burning Love said:
When was that stupid ass Episode where Lisa became a Vegitarian?
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Lisa the Vegetarian? That was a fun episode though.

I think the definitive "The Simpsons aren't the same anymore" moment for me was season 8. It definitely started getting a bit too wacky for its own good around then. I love plenty of season 8 episodes like You Only Move Twice, A Milhouse Divided, Homer's Enemy and the Spin-Off Showcase but you can definitely see the writing on the wall with all the wacky and/or boring shit.
 
vertexwindi said:
It was but then Homer's Enemy was his downslide into an insufferable idiot. I still like that episode though.
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We covered this pages back, but I hate that episode and i will take shark jumped Homer over Shark Jumped Lisa any day of the week, at least supid homer can sometimes fall ass backwards into a joke, Lisa stopped being funny entirely at some point.
 
Jozef said:
About the discussion on when the Simpsons went shitty, I think the series took a shit after season 12, but it started to nosedive after season 10.

Season 1-10 is worth buying on DVD. Season 11-12 is worth buying on DVD if you get a good deal on cheap used box sets. Season 13-20 is worth watching on TV if they come on, but not worth buying. Season 21+ isn't even worth watching at all.
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Thinking critically it's probably s9 for me, however i feel there are enough good 1/2 episodes and jokes through to s13 to be mostly entertained. Though if i was going to buy, I'd likely only go for 1-10 max.

Honka Honka Burning Love said:
It was also when Lisa started her downslide into an insufferable know it all.
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I'll never forget this brilliant line in regards to Lisa's continued decline into the insufferable.
 
Travoltron said:
I've tried to pinpoint the Jump the Shark moment on The Simpsons, but I can't. It was a a slow, almost imperceptible decline. I can't remember which came first, the Jockey Elves or the cruel death of Maude Flanders, but it was around that time that I knew the show was dead.
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I actually liked Season 11, but I can see why some people hated it. It definitely was a change of pace, but I think the show was still good (or at least decent) until after the movie. Season 18 was the first season that I felt was truly bad and while the movie was enjoyable, the post-movie seasons are where true "Zombie Simpsons" begins for me.

Like, Seasons 1-10 are a golden age, and Seasons 11-13 are a silver age that wasn't as good as the Hartman years, but was still good despite being different. As much as everyone hates Saddlesore Galactica, I liked it because it was a self-parody of how the show was getting more ridiculous, and they pulled that premise off a lot better later that very same season with Behind The Laughter.

Seasons 11-13 would be a silver age that has retroactively aged better over the years, Seasons 14-16 would be a bronze age where you could tell that the show was truly in decline but it hadn't completely jumped the shark just yet.

Everything after that is pure Zombie Simpsons. The movie is simply a ceremonial end date, much like how the tragic death of Phil Hartman is a ceremonial end date for the show's golden age.
 
I have taken advantage of disney plus to watch some season 1 episodes (as part of a larger plan for a more full rewatch up to an as yet undetermined season over time) and the differences in character behaviors compared to now is completely different and actually make them likable as opposed to know where it is hard to like any member of the Simpsons family.

I also took the time to watch the most recent episode earlier this week and it is a solid "meh" for me. Which for modern simpsons is the best it will ever get.

Syaoran Li said:
I actually liked Season 11, but I can see why some people hated it. It definitely was a change of pace, but I think the show was still good (or at least decent) until after the movie. Season 18 was the first season that I felt was truly bad and while the movie was enjoyable, the post-movie seasons are where true "Zombie Simpsons" begins for me.

Like, Seasons 1-10 are a golden age, and Seasons 11-13 are a silver age that wasn't as good as the Hartman years, but was still good despite being different. As much as everyone hates Saddlesore Galactica, I liked it because it was a self-parody of how the show was getting more ridiculous, and they pulled that premise off a lot better later that very same season with Behind The Laughter.

Seasons 11-13 would be a silver age that has retroactively aged better over the years, Seasons 14-16 would be a bronze age where you could tell that the show was truly in decline but it hadn't completely jumped the shark just yet.

Everything after that is pure Zombie Simpsons. The movie is simply a ceremonial end date, much like how the tragic death of Phil Hartman is a ceremonial end date for the show's golden age.
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I agree, there are some post Hartman to Movie era simpsons episodes that I really like. The ones that come to mind for me right now are Skinner's Sense of Snow (I just really enjoyed this episode and still did the last time I watched it), Grift of the Magi(I really liked the Fat Tony stuff and the funzo stuff in general), Kill Gil, Volumes I & II (only because the knockoff grinch is really funny to me) , and Dude, Where's My Ranch? (I thought the dude ranch stuff was pretty funny, especially Cookie)

The only post movie Simpsons episode that stands out as good to me is "E. Pluribus Wiggum" just because I like the whole Ralph running for president thing and the ad at the end. There are some others that are passable in the post-movie years but they get alot more rare and they get worse as it has gone on.
 
Travoltron said:
I've tried to pinpoint the Jump the Shark moment on The Simpsons, but I can't. It was a a slow, almost imperceptible decline. I can't remember which came first, the Jockey Elves or the cruel death of Maude Flanders, but it was around that time that I knew the show was dead.
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I think it's less something you can pinpoint in the show itself and more when did the Simpsons really stop making sense as part of the broader American culture?

Simpsons really personified 90s culture and in the post 9/11 era was when it really started to feel out of place, it should have ended around the time The X-Files, another show that personified 90s culture, did.
 
Dom Cruise said:
I think it's less something you can pinpoint in the show itself and more when did the Simpsons really stop making sense as part of the broader American culture?

Simpsons really personified 90s culture and in the post 9/11 era was when it really started to feel out of place, it should have ended around the time The X-Files, another show that personified 90s culture, did.
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I'd say the show personified 90's culture the best, but it still worked within the wider context of the early 2000's (I count 2000 and the first half of 2001 as part of the 90's) and I think it truly became irrelevant with the Great Recession and the rise of smartphones and social media in the late 2000's.

Some of the more maligned "Bronze Age" episodes actually hold up a lot better when compared to what came later, most notably "There's Something About Marrying" from Season 16. Even in the Golden Age episodes, there were subtle hints that Patty was a closeted lesbian to the point that it was a recurring joke, so it didn't come out of nowhere nor was it all that hamfisted like when Smithers publicly came out many years later.

Homer's get rich quick scheme of performing gay weddings is even more relevant in the age of "Pride Month" where the big corporations sell more merch by slapping a rainbow on it, and the last act is the kind of stuff that would make troons seethe in today's political climate.

The Great Recession killed the concept of the nuclear family as the default for the average American with the Millennials as the first major "non-starter" generation in the post-WWII era and Web 2.0 drastically altered the very landscape of our culture to a point that a show like The Simpsons simply could not work in today's culture for reasons that have little or nothing to do with politics and woke culture. The fundamental nature of media has changed too much and is still in a state of rapid change.
 
Wasn't there other things they edited and censored out on Disney+? I know I've been quite cruisin for a bruisin lately but today has been a fun filled day learning of how internet censorship and the ugly miserly plotters known as The Morality Squad are trying to plant down the "No Fun Allowed" sign before making us all puritian dickchoppers and vagina stitchers again before awaiting the magical day when the earth turns to salt, fire, and brimstone.

I am also not going to lie either; I think the point where you could see the decay a bit was as evident as back in Season 5 with Secrets Of A Successful Marriage. That episode in opinion was one of the biggest cases of season finale dud I ever watched, and having watched the actual episode in full, it is possibly the origins of Zombie seasons plot conflicts of "Homer sucks at being husband, must go through hell to make his wife happy again" and "Jerkass Homer". Sure, Moe droppin' suckas dissin' your flygirl while dancing to the beat is momentous, but after that, it gets outright stupid with little characterization when Homer inevitably shows how much of a fuckup he is at being a marriage counselor. Like, you think Homer's Enemy is bad in making Homer stupid? Try the episode where he is so out of character dumb as fuck to be forced to live in the treehouse after pissing off Marge, the one thing he has not fucked up going over the line through. I think they tried to build up to this with the early gags of "My lifelong dream", but when you don't have an episode about fleshing out this gag with characterization, when you have an absolutely poor lead up with no prior characterization that is known to that character, and when you have episodes about him refusing cheating on Marge, and in one instance, accepting him back with no repercussions and full forgiveness, that's when the episode falls short. I know that Season 5 was also trying to go for more of a psychological and smart angle about this, but Secrets was just another shitty cliqued sitcom plot about marital frictions and just done in the facsimile of The Simpsons with none of its subversions and healthy deconstruction. I think that's when the first crew knew that they were really losing steam, and that was not remedied in the long run either.
 
I Love Beef said:
Wasn't there other things they edited and censored out on Disney+? I know I've been quite cruisin for a bruisin lately but today has been a fun filled day learning of how internet censorship and the ugly miserly plotters known as The Morality Squad are trying to plant down the "No Fun Allowed" sign before making us all puritian dickchoppers and vagina stitchers again before awaiting the magical day when the earth turns to salt, fire, and brimstone.

I am also not going to lie either; I think the point where you could see the decay a bit was as evident as back in Season 5 with Secrets Of A Successful Marriage. That episode in opinion was one of the biggest cases of season finale dud I ever watched, and having watched the actual episode in full, it is possibly the origins of Zombie seasons plot conflicts of "Homer sucks at being husband, must go through hell to make his wife happy again" and "Jerkass Homer". Sure, Moe droppin' suckas dissin' your flygirl while dancing to the beat is momentous, but after that, it gets outright stupid with little characterization when Homer inevitably shows how much of a fuckup he is at being a marriage counselor. Like, you think Homer's Enemy is bad in making Homer stupid? Try the episode where he is so out of character dumb as fuck to be forced to live in the treehouse after pissing off Marge, the one thing he has not fucked up going over the line through. I think they tried to build up to this with the early gags of "My lifelong dream", but when you don't have an episode about fleshing out this gag with characterization, when you have an absolutely poor lead up with no prior characterization that is known to that character, and when you have episodes about him refusing cheating on Marge, and in one instance, accepting him back with no repercussions and full forgiveness, that's when the episode falls short. I know that Season 5 was also trying to go for more of a psychological and smart angle about this, but Secrets was just another shitty cliqued sitcom plot about marital frictions and just done in the facsimile of The Simpsons with none of its subversions and healthy deconstruction. I think that's when the first crew knew that they were really losing steam, and that was not remedied in the long run either.
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Really? THAT'S your idea of worst golden age episode?
 
Uncanny Valley said:
Really? THAT'S your idea of worst golden age episode?
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"Hey, if you think that's something, wait till you see my butt!"

Going back to form, let's take this up a notch. I think Season 5 feels like the weakest of the Golden Age of The Simpsons. It's definitely got plenty of good episodes, highlights, memeworthy gags (Our beloved Sugarposting is from Boy Scoutz 'N The Hood) and I'd rather watch the season than dare risk most any of the shit that comprises Zombie Simpsons seasons, hell I even own a boxset of the season, but there's plenty of seeds of discontent to be had; in layman's terms, it's not perfect.

For starters, I can tell that Season 4 is a very hard act to follow. That is the heart of Golden Age Simpsons for most likely not just me, but a majority of the fanbase, and I'd sell my firstborn son for another boxset of it after the one I lost (he'll do as he's told). There's so much about it that can't be explained without a thesis to why it's the best season, but I can fold it up to how it's surreal but relatable, and doesn't go for the cynicism bent too hard as the episodes ends. Season 5 however, I think it tried to top 4 with trying to branch out with more over the top and even larger than life situations, but I also think you can feel some evidence of weariness and tired ideas that tell us that the writers probably need a bit of a vacation to recharge. Yeah, a lot of the episodes are also Golden Age and are classics, but 5 also strangely has a few odd ends that makes it feel like an odd gap before Season 6 and had some aspects to its episodes that felt more experimental. A lot of the episodes deal with the Simpsons somehow gaining a ton of prestige, getting into even greater out of the ordinary leveled situations, or as I've said, deal with parts of their personalities we've never seen but have not been hinted or just come out of nowhere, and I can say that's a bit more jarring than the Simpsons in Season 4 just dealing with the snow and car problems, a first crush, trying to get a script accepted by an animation studio and made into an actual episode, or even just fighting off conmen, be it monorail sellers or the former CEOs of European branch theme parks. Even the marital friction subplots in 4, from A Streetcar Named Marge or Homer Alone were best as just as they were, a subtle but reoccuring subplot that made the latent but effective core of the episode, and overall it is a rather bizarre yet conclusive analysis of mine that Season 4 transitioning into Season 6 feels a lot more fluid and consistent. Season 5 however, somehow just doesn't have that, and it's one of the reasons why I feel it is the weakest Golden Age season.
 
Seasons 1-7 is when the show was at its prime for me, although seasons 1-3 were the most emotional, heartfelt and down to Earth for me, having a lot of sweet moments and a real dedication to continuity that made the family almost seem real rather than just cartoon parodies. Ingenious throughout except for two or three episodes and half of another (all of which came from season 5...).

Seasons 8-9 are when the rot starts to show itself. There's still good and great episodes in them, but its not as consistent as the first 7 and something seems off or very questionable about the characters and setting. However Homer's Enemy would've been the perfect grim end to the series, showcasing its fall into extravagance, Homer's decline from a sympathetic and struggling goofy father to generic pop culture icon and the show's over reliance on celebrity support, but then again, the fact that the show continued even after this blatant jab at itself best represents how distant the show had gotten from its roots and how much further it continued to distance itself.

Season 11 is when shit hits the fan and we reach the point of no return with so much shit going on that it's impossible to mend. From then on it's just an unstoppable and harsh descent into mediocrity, shallowness and outright putridness that would forever plague the series from then on, with only one or two rough goodies showing themselves in-between every couple of seasons (if one was lucky) or none at all, but the characters had become so obnoxious and heartless that you honestly start to lose any connection and sympathy you once had for them and their "struggles".
 
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One thing I particularly dislike about Zombie Simpsons is the excessive violence that's kind of like what's in Family Guy. That and the THIS IS A JOKE AND THIS IS WHY IT'S FUNNY style "humor."
 
Not quoting posts because I'm lazy and I'm using mobile.

@Syaoran Li

Definitely agree. It was a dud of an episode. Remove the frequency of jokes and the script wouldn't be out of line within a Season 13/14 marriage crisis episode. That being said, that's not my signal for decline. I think I may have said it before, but earlier in the season, Bart's Inner Child. If you remove the jokes, majority of which are fucking hilarious, it's probably one of the most structurally inconsistent episodes in the show. Earlier episodes of The Simpsons. Felt connected through some kind of narrative. Inner Child felt like a series of vignettes, although funny, feel very disjointed. Think about it: first act is the matress shit, second act is when Marge tries to get self-help and shit (which only starts because of a meta joke, one of very few episodes I can think of where the plot is inspired by a meta joke) and third act the whole town decides to be like Bart, only then reflecting the title of the episode into a plot. It's like George Meyer spent his whole time taking all the best jokes the writers wrote and making it into a loosely connected story with wacky gags. The episode itself really does kind of lack the grounded nature the show had. There's loads of visual and reference gags in this one, all of which are timed well and funny, but they lack. Plus, the third act.

I mean, you can go even earlier. Nobody mentions Marge In Chains, a Season 4 episode that starts off fairly normal (although Apu is weird in this one) and throws a legendary second act pulled through by Lionel Hutz, but devolves into shit once Marge goes into women's prison. Normally with this, you'd think that the writers would put focus on the house falling apart without Marge, and they do, but they go to the extreme route, by suggesting that THE WHOLE TOWN would fall apart without Marge being the balance beam that holds things together, which is a really, really strange plot point. Hell, not to drag out my autism further, but you could even say Marge Vs. The Monorail or Mr. Plow marked a shift in the nature of the show due to celebrity overload and the absurdist humor within those two episodes being the forefront.

@I Love Beef

I don't personally agree that Season 5 is the weakest season of the Golden Age, but I could see why. A lot of the episodes in that season have wackier plot points, jokes, and bigger adventures rather than the small compact peaceful Simpsons nature. Surprisingly, I think Season 4 is the weakest, because I feel that Season 4 is very inconsistent with what it wanted to do. It started out fine, but by the second half of the season I feel like it kind of fell off. I think the last 4 episodes of Season 4 are some of the weakest of the Golden Age, mostly because they weren't that funny or they had a lot of story problems, and I think a lot of the favored Season 4 episodes are overrated as fuck...except for Last Exit To Springfield. Season 6 is my favorite season of the show because I feel like it's a perfect balance. It's Season 3 and 5 in a blender. You take wackier jokes and put them with more grounded stories, and boom, Season 6. Perfecto mundo.
 
ToroidalBoat said:
Another thing I dislike of Zombie Simpsons is when it tries too hard to be "artsy." Like in overly long couch gags.
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I think I would've appreciated these kind of couch gags (especially ones by guest animators) more if they were made during the show's heyday. It's painfully obvious it's being a tryhard in staying remotely relevant. All that talent wasted on the husk of a once-great show.
 
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