Culture The Methodist Church split over same-sex marriage, explained - The church’s proposed splintering is one of the most drastic responses to marriage equality - Vox

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There are big changes coming to the spiritual home of George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Hillary Clinton, and Elizabeth Warren.

The United Methodist Church, the second-largest Protestant denomination in the US, announced Friday a proposal to split after years of dispute over LGBTQ issues and marriage equality.

Church leaders revealed a plan that would divide its roughly 13 million members worldwide by creating a new “traditionalist Methodist” denomination that maintains a strict ban on ordaining LGBTQ clergy and same-sex marriage.

The proposal is the latest and perhaps most drastic development as religions have grappled with the increasing social acceptance of marriage equality and LGBTQ rights over the past several decades. The number of Americans who regularly attend church is sitting at its lowest point in decades, and millennials in the US are particularly turned off by anti-LGBTQ church doctrine.

According to Guthrie Graves-Fitzsimmons, an author and disillusioned former Methodist, tensions over queer issues have been increasing for decades, but really hit a key point at the church’s 2016 general conference. “There was a lot of hope then that the restricted anti-LGBTQ language would be removed from the Book of Discipline, which they’d been debating every four years since 1972, but instead of making a decision, they decided to form a special commission,” he told Vox. It was at that point that Graves-Fitzsimmons decided to leave the Methodist Church after having been a member of the denomination since childhood.

That special commission concluded with 53 percent of church leaders and lay people voting to tighten language on its same-sex marriage ban at a general conference last February, in a measure saying “the practice of homosexuality is incompatible with Christian teaching.” It was a decision that made the plan to split all but inevitable.


“We tried to look for ways that we could gracefully live together with all our differences,” Louisiana-based Bishop Cynthia Fierro Harvey told the New York Times. After last year’s conference, “it just didn’t look like that was even possible anymore,” she said.

Each congregation will now hold a vote over whether to remain in the United Methodist Church or join the anti-LGBTQ splinter group. It’s expected that the majority of American congregations will choose to remain in the more liberal denomination, but Graves-Fitzsimmons is worried about how those congregation votes will affect LGBTQ parishioners.

“The sad part to me is that people will have to vote on a local level, which I think is incredibly harmful for LGBTQ people,” he said, pointing out that queer Methodists will essentially have their validity voted on by their neighbors. “This is in a local church. It’s much different when it’s at a global meeting.”

Religious leaders have struggled to adapt to changing social mores
To survive, churches must maintain a steady membership. The percentage of Americans who said they belong to a church, synagogue, or mosque hit a high of 76 percent in 1948 and has been in steady decline ever since, according to data from Gallup. In 2018, that number had declined to just 50 percent.

Methodist membership numbers, specifically, have declined every year since 1964. For example, average weekly church attendance in the US fell 3.3 percent in 2016 from the previous year. Unsettled questions over the church’s stance on LGBTQ people have only exacerbated the situation.

There are many reasons why Americans aren’t as religious as they used to be, but for many young people, the way their LGBTQ friends are treated by hard-line Christians and Catholics is often a motivator for leaving the church.

While the cultural approval of LGBTQ people had been slowly moving in a progressive direction for decades, the first civil unions for same-sex couples were allowed in Vermont in 2000, then marriage equality became state law in Massachusetts in 2004. From there, a steady drumbeat of court rulings and legislation expanded the right throughout much of the US before a Supreme Court required the remaining states to legalize marriage equality in 2015.

Church leaders have been forced to reconcile their own deeply held beliefs with a more accepting social environment, and the Methodist split is just the latest in a long series of church adaptations on queer issues.

The United Church of Christ was the first major Protestant denomination to take affirming action for LGBTQ people, allowing same-sex couples to get married in 2005, while the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America opened its doors to queer marriage in 2009, though it leaves the final decision up to each local minister.

In 2015, the Presbyterian Church USA voted to change its definition of marriage by amending its Book of Orders to say marriage is “between two people.” Seventy-one percent of church leaders voted in a general assembly to approve the change. Episcopalians followed suit in 2018, expanding the right of gay congregants to get married in all congregations.

While some Protestant denominations have taken steps to open their doors to their LGBTQ neighbors, more conservative strains of Christianity aren’t having much of those discussions. Pope Francis has drawn acclaim for saying “Who am I to judge gay people?,” but the Catholic Church has shown no sign of changing its strict anti-LGBTQ doctrine. In fact, the Vatican has rejected the entire notion of transgender people.

Similarly, the Southern Baptist Convention, the largest Protestant denomination in the US, continues to marginalize LGBTQ congregants, with messages that have become culture-war talking points against queer rights — like homosexuality is not a “valid alternative lifestyle” and “gender identity is determined by biological sex and not by one’s self-perception.”

“The Southern Baptists and the Catholics are a long way off,” said Graves-Fitzsimmons of their LGBTQ acceptance. The Methodist split, he said, “will move us past this long, tumultuous period where there will be churches that welcome, affirm, celebrate the gifts of LGBTQ people. And there will be churches that don’t.” Ultimately, it will make clearer where people may find they belong.

Before coming to an agreement about separating, church leaders from the US, Europe, Africa, and the Philippines gathered in Washington, DC, for bargaining sessions last week. Negotiations also focused on ironing out financial differences, like how pensions and funding will be allocated to those congregations that will be leaving. The church’s worldwide conference, scheduled for May, still needs to approve the restructuring.

- End of Article -​

seems to be moreso whining about how christians hate the gays than anything else
 
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That is what protestantism is. from Luther to the magesterial reformers, to radical reformers to today and the word of faith. Its that personal moral values which bred "Jesus and the disciples and david and jonathan are gay" and "god hates fags".

Notice what Pope Francis said, "it's not my place to judge a gay" and how difficult it is for Vox to understand what that means, whining about "the catholic church isn't allowing gay marriage and doesn't believe in trannyism". Homosexuality is sin and yet, God is merciful and understands that all people are sinners and need Pastoral Care via repentance and the eucharist, etc.

In the prot world, pastoral Care is the word that transgressives use to soften christian dogma. The whole theology is all backwards. the sinner needs to be happy and fulfilled, not healed, and the church is the place to find happiness, not salvation.

You're not wrong, one of the reasons for the decline of pederasty, child abandonment and the rise in the wellbeing of women was christianity's "imago Dei".
The funny part is all the dogma, all the ritual, is stuff the church came up with itself, because everyone loves rules.
Many of the moral values people tend to view as religious are actually arbitrary rules that have nothing to do with the spiritual lessions taught in these books.

they much more have to do with ancient laws and rules of the societies of the time, and they often are deturpations of the original teachings done in order to control people, the catholic church and

that being said is obvious that the lack of "traditional" religion is not fufilling many of the essential needs a big part of society has towards believing and belonging, thats partially why with the deturpation of these "universal moral values" that are leading to the dimissal of religion in modern societies, we see the ressurgence of what I pretty much call "secular religion"

although I was raised in a religious family, I too don't have a horse in this particular game, I feel people should study for themselves the origins of their religion instead of being taught by other people interpreting it, if they think a split over their understandment of morality is the best compromise I have nothing else to say, and while I am naturally untrusting of anything that has to do with LGBT advocacy, the root of my dislike is ideological instead of moral (the use of Cancel Culture for example, that I would rather not see spread to the religious camp since it´s exactly the same shit the religious nuts did but done by different people), if they think this works, I´d hather have a live and let live approach to it.
That's the thing. Pretty much all of the orthopraxy AND orthodoxy of all of the flavors of Christianity didn't come from the guy it's based on. That dude pretty much said that he was fulfilling the promise of the old covenant(s), and here's a new one - I'll be back. Until then, be nice, pay your taxes, and when you get together with friends and party think of me, now excuse me while I go amd symbolically get punished for everything everyone has ever done wrong so they don't have to be.

Everything else is stuff his posse said to do or made up by various councils or later followers to make a coherent religion. The core is pretty amorphous, though, so there's as much justification for the wokeshit as anything.

It's not like the other two big Abrahamic religions where very detailed, oppressive lists of what to do and when are spelled out in their instruction manual and are direct commands from the godbear.

Some people think tambourines and contemporary Christian music and snake handling are reverential. Most people think it's fucking wierd. They used to torture and kill those guys. People are very protective of their traditions, for good or for bad.
 
Well I see progress on removing all religions except the state is progressing swimmingly. We should have people eating bugs and living in government pods in no time.
 
Disagreement is "incredibly harmful", so lets just get the church council to change doctrine and force everyone else in line. Anything else would be invalidating!

If they think that's invalidating, wait until they try out an eternal dip into a lake of fire.

(Or did they already vote Hell out of existence? I can't keep track any more.)
 
Cool. I actually like how some churches require marriage counseling and an interview before booking a wedding there.

If you want to get gay married, get the state or someone else who wants to do it. You aren't entitled to a Methodist wedding.
Oh, THAT explains the Disagree ratings! I meant marriage in the general sense, not necessarily per religion. I didn't know states can ratify marriages; most everybody gets married at a church or with a ministry.

That being said, gay marriage should be possible. I stand with that statement.
 
Oh, THAT explains the Disagree ratings! I meant marriage in the general sense, not necessarily per religion. I didn't know states can ratify marriages; most everybody gets married at a church or with a ministry.

That being said, gay marriage should be possible. I stand with that statement.
Basically any clerk at any city or county court can issue a marriage licence, and virtually anyone can officiate a wedding.
 
Mainstream American Christianity is cancer. I don't like talking shit about prots because as a Catholic I know my faith is equally fucked values-wise, but cmon.

Changing the values of the church will not get the Millenials attending. They'll rather have fake spirituality that doesn't challenge their values and sells them shit. It will also drive away actual believers because you make the establishment be a whore that wants acceptance.

Quoting a book is nearly always autistic, but I think this excerpt from Fahrenheit 451 is apt:

Liberal millenials who love faggots won't give a shit about Jebus anyway. You can't convince them because there's already a dominant culture that embraces that stuff while asking nothing of them and permitting even more. They'll turn to atheism and hedonism instead of the church because those are the values of shabbos heteros like them.
 
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