The Magic the Gathering Community

[kaien]

I never thought, looking at this, that Sheldon and the Rules Committee would actually be on top of things for Commander when they banned Lutri...

That said it all when it comes to Ikoria.

Wizards: "We're going to make a set that's all about Commander!"

CRC: "We're gonna start banning this shit from Commander before the set even drops."

 

[Truant]

I don't have a problem with the Lutri ban, he's just not meant for EDH or Brawl.
The idea behind him is "what if you could build an EDH style deck but legal in Standard?" which is fine, but doesn't work in other formats.

 

[breadandcircuses]

That said it all when it comes to Ikoria.

Wizards: "We're going to make a set that's all about Commander!"

CRC: "We're gonna start banning this shit from Commander before the set even drops."

At least the Ikoria Commander Product seems to not suck brazen donkey balls.

Though all at once, content creators for Commander on Youtube started dropping videos saying you shouldn't play taplands and cards that violate color pie and "I know it's a staple for your colors, but have you thought not playing it?"

 

[Opiophile]

At least the Ikoria Commander Product seems to not suck brazen donkey balls.

Though all at once, content creators for Commander on Youtube started dropping videos saying you shouldn't play taplands and cards that violate color pie and "I know it's a staple for your colors, but have you thought not playing it?"

That's the thing though. In my opinion, WoTC creating new cards for EDH is a terrible idea, since they can't make balanced sets anymore. EDH needs to be something that grows organically from the community, using whatever sets they put out. That's the whole point! That's why it was created, to use old cards and express yourself, and it doesn't matter if you just have a pile of shitty cards, you can still have fun with your friends.

Think about a few years from now, after say a decade of WoTC making dedicated EDH products. All of the decks that will become popular will HAVE to have 1/3-1/2 or more Commander precon set cards in them, all of them. It's just such a shame that WoTC has to go and ruin another format to make more money.

The other thing is MaRo asking about what people would want more in new sets, Balance vs Innovation. Why does it have to be either or Mark? What point is there to innovate if nothing is balanced and everyone quits your game? What are we even talking about here? They have lost sight of what makes people love to Play magic. I play to have fun solving puzzles/problems every game and outwit my opponent, preferably using old cards that I love. WoTC now caters to the zoomers, so why make creatures have summoning sickness anymore, let's make Mutate so they don't have to wait. Reduce variance, make every game the same. Turn 3 Lurrus into Bauble over and over. Very disheartening.

The last thing I want to mention is my recent experience with MTG Arena. I had never tried it before, and I was impressed with how fun it was. I maybe spent $30-40 on some gems and bought some packs and drafted a few times. Had a lot of fun. Then I built 3/4 of a tier deck with all my wildcards, hoping to use the lands I get from the free Arena tutorial decks to fill it out. Big surprise after I unlock them all. If you have 1 Hallowed Fountain in your collection, and you get the UW Arena deck, it will not give you another Hallowed Fountain. It will use the one in your collection to fill that decklist. What a fucking scam! I thought it was a bug, but nope, working as intended.

So I get all these new decks with barely any new cards to add to my collection because of this ridiculous shit. It really pissed me off and made me quit playing. Fucking Wotc, they can never just give you a break, they always fuck you.

 

[breadandcircuses]

See, this is where I disagree with you, sorta, maybe? I don't know.

I think the Commander product itself. The actual pre-con 100 card decks should be something like... 75% reprints. And maybe with one or two chase cards and brand new legends for commanders.

Dockside extortionist, for example, doesn't break Commander in Red, I don't think. Though if you're running Abzan, you can include Dockside Extortionist, Revel in Riches, and Smothering Tithe, so maybe I'm wrong? Who knows.

 

[Dirty Jerz]

I'm sure companion is somehow their fault too.

There was a consultant (I forgot his name...) who specifically told them to NOT print companions.

 

[Ol' Slag]

Has anyone brought up how MPL got info two weeks early that paper magic pt2 is gonna be on Arena before anyone else?

And that when this info leaked, WoTC pulled discord communication with MPL?

Edit for clarity.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

Lurrus of the Dream Den has become almost 100% of the Vintage meta, and is probably over 80% of modern since it slots in to several different tier decks. What a nightmare.

The fact that card got printed alone should be a reason for The entire Design team to get completely ousted. Maro's team has completely abandoned Vintage and Legacy as formats in a game where the single strongest aspect is that there are Multiple formats to play, then they push their "Championship" to a product that has -1- real competitive format to it. They have always favored standard(all card games do really) but it is absolutely absurd that they abandon Modern, Legacy, and Vintage because "MUH ESPORTS!"

WoTC has a huge boner for cards creating instant value the instant they hit the battlefield these days, and I guess they forgot to print cards with drawbacks the last few years. Really sad. I hope companions are banned in eternal formats soon. Then we just have to deal with Uro/Kroxa horseshit every game then. Very depressing.

The problem is, if they don't create threats that don't provide instant value, your meta sort of just becomes various "Combo decks" and "Control decks to combat combo." Consider that Robber of the Rich..isn't even good outside of Standard, and Mono-Red wouldn't even be a good deck without Embercleave. The only reason Mono-red even plays it is because it has haste, even with the power creep Creatures -STILL- aren't good enough to hang in Eternal Formats.

Uro/Kroxia get a pass entirely because of Escape, if they were 2/2s with those ETB/Attack Triggers they wouldn't be remotely good. The problem isn't intimidate value creatures, the problem is always fucking Graveyard effects, WOTC needs to stop trying to make the Graveyard a thing, it isn't a surprise that the most absurd Companion is the god damn Play things from the Graveyard one.

Competitive constructed people play Modern or Pioneer,

Shame Pioneer got Buried by Oracle/Inverter in less than half a year.

casual constructed people play Commander

The worst of it is that the vast-vast majority of people play commander, WOTC's "Professional" Scene plays a game fundamentally different from what most people play. One that has gotten fucked every 3 months because The Designers have lost all god damn sense of what they are doing..

The little otter was just too good for the Commander world.

It isn't even really all that good, it is just "Free" for any Red/blue deck, like okay "Fork Timewarp" isn't exactly the most absurd thing in the planet. Lutri probably fights with Umori as the worst of the 10.

 

[nekrataal]

The fact that card got printed alone should be a reason for The entire Design team to get completely ousted. Maro's team has completely abandoned Vintage and Legacy as formats in a game where the single strongest aspect is that there are Multiple formats to play, then they push their "Championship" to a product that has -1- real competitive format to it. They have always favored standard(all card games do really) but it is absolutely absurd that they abandon Modern, Legacy, and Vintage because "MUH ESPORTS!"

They’ve wanted to kill off eternal for a long time because they make very little money off of it and it’s near impossible to get the esports crowd to pick up because of the cost in tickets to build a decent legacy deck. It’s easier for them to just get their consoomer playerbase to keep playing standard and limited. Sure, there’s products made for whales like the limited editions and secret lair drops, but overall it’s easier to get the average player who’s either just picked the game up in the last 5 years or who’s only played standard to keep playing that format.

Don’t forget that they’re still insisting on keeping the reserve list up despite it making things worse and allowing for certain cards to maintain high prices.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

They’ve wanted to kill off eternal

The problem is the Eternal Formats are amazing to watch, MTGO and Paper might not be the easiest things to present but if WOTC actually got their heads out of their ass, got a crew together to broadcast shit and got rid of faggots like Randy in the announce crew and put people who can actually discuss what is going on along with a director who can actually present the cards correctly.

Fucking Pokemon does it and has for years, the announcing isn't great but the presentation is so superior to WOTC it is an embarrassment. Hell Star City Games can do it better.

Edit : here is how fucked up WOTC is. Luis Scott Vargas missed out on both the Rivals and the Pro League, one of if not the best player in the world. When they announced the Rivals league before Carona fucked everything up he "qualified" for the Rivals League(Think AAA Baseball, if you win there you advance to Pro), and he directly stated he didn't know if he was going to accept because they hadn't send him a contract with the details.

They announced the League before they had even talked to one of the invited players, As fucked as game design is..the actual corporate functions of WOTC as a competitive gaming company are a hundred times worse.

 

[nekrataal]

Hell, even yugioh for a long time had better presentation than WotC when konami was still trying. It shouldn’t be so hard for them to at least know about cards that were memorable and/or are big staples in the format. That’s what I liked about SCG and channel fireball, they’d at least have knowledgeable people announcing things rather than someone who’s just bumbling and trying to wing it. That’s why despite his shortcomings, I’ve always liked Cedric Phillips.

 

[breadandcircuses]

As far as Eternal Formats go, I don't think that uh... R&D should really build with Legacy and Vintage in mind, personally. Certainly Modern, but the cost of entry into competitive Vintage is fucking insane (the winner last year had a 3 copies of 3 true duals and a Tabernacle for chrissakes.).

But certainly they should make Standard competitive with itself (as in all the sets that would be active at the same time for rotation) and probably not break Modern. I don't think that R&D should take Commander into mind when designing the set (on the other hand, I do like the idea of having a set themed commander product, but I digress).

And yeah, there should be R&D, a Design Consultancy team, and a playtest team filled with spikes.

Giving Oko, Thief of Crowns a pass because they only used it on their own mana rocks, get that shit outta here!

 

[Stab You in the Back]

I don't care, people always bitch about Magic, I just think its funny that years after Hearthstone had to nerf or ban every Start of Game effect, WotC is like "yeah, this will be balanced."

Here's how bad Start of Game effects are: Hearthstone had a 1/1 creature with haste called Patches the Pirate that was automatically summoned when you cast another pirate. This 1/1 was so horrendously overpowered that it was shortly nerfed to remove the haste. Let me repeat: a ONE HEALTH, ONE DAMAGE creature with a Start of Game effect to summon it was overpowered.

 

[Ebonic Tutor]

It isn't even really all that good, it is just "Free" for any Red/blue deck, like okay "Fork Timewarp" isn't exactly the most absurd thing in the planet. Lutri probably fights with Umori as the worst of the 10.

Fork Expropriate Warp World or Thieves Auction, prepare to dodge projectiles flying at your head.

 

[AnotherPleb]

I honestly liked it better when they didn't push Commander as hard as they have. Improving weaker color combos like Boros is nice, but putting like Arcane Signet in things that people otherwise would never buy really feel like they're speeding Commander up way too much. Then again, they've lost the plot in general when it comes to game balance, and the fetches were banned in Pioneer since they already knew the Tricycle lands would make the format a 5 color Good Shit format otherwise - that or 5 color vs Burn. If WOTC wasn't strung along to the SJW agenda they'd be shitcanning so many people from Card Design as the power creep is pushing Mirrodin levels of insanity.

On a side note, they're pushing creatures so hard since they got sick and tired of the Dies To Doom Blade meme. I don't even think Doom Blade would be that good in Standard nowadays since everything's so geared to instantly provide value and T3feri kills instant speed spells anyways.

 

[Ebonic Tutor]

I honestly liked it better when they didn't push Commander as hard as they have. Improving weaker color combos like Boros is nice, but putting like Arcane Signet in things that people otherwise would never buy really feel like they're speeding Commander up way too much. Then again, they've lost the plot in general when it comes to game balance, and the fetches were banned in Pioneer since they already knew the Tricycle lands would make the format a 5 color Good Shit format otherwise - that or 5 color vs Burn. If WOTC wasn't strung along to the SJW agenda they'd be shitcanning so many people from Card Design as the power creep is pushing Mirrodin levels of insanity.

On a side note, they're pushing creatures so hard since they got sick and tired of the Dies To Doom Blade meme. I don't even think Doom Blade would be that good in Standard nowadays since everything's so geared to instantly provide value and T3feri kills instant speed spells anyways.

Heartless Act is real damn close to Doom Blade.

Admittedly counters are pretty common in Ikoria too though.

 

[AnotherPleb]

Heartless Act is real damn close to Doom Blade.

View attachment 1294261

Admittedly counters are pretty common in Ikoria too though.

That spell's a bit weaker in standard considering how many things in standard at the moment either have counters or provide that immediate value. My best way to compare things is asking if Siege Rhino would even be as good in today's standard as it was in KTK block. I would say Reflector Mage, but it'd be even crazier nowadays with Yorion.

The point still stands that there's something massively wrong with the balance of standard at the moment, and I'm seeing that over here in Commander.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

but the cost of entry into competitive Vintage is fucking insane (the winner last year had a 3 copies of 3 true duals and a Tabernacle for chrissakes.).

Yes, which is a problem that WOTC needs to solve. They need to tell the "Investors" to go fuck themselves so that Legacy/Vintage/Modern are all actually playable.

Fork Expropriate Warp World or Thieves Auction, prepare to dodge projectiles flying at your head.

Funny I already have a deck that does that without the useless otter, headed up by Homosexual Monarchs.

Who needs the Otter when you have Hivemind to copy WarpWorld 3 times.

and the fetches were banned in Pioneer since

That is not the reason, the reason was to reduce shuffling, The Fetches were a mistake in general, watching would probably be improved in paper if they all got the axe (including Vista/Wilds/Expanse) in every format.

Heartless Act is real damn close to Doom Blade.

Heartless Act in 90% of game play is a strictly better Doom Blade. Ikoria just has a specific Counters Theme that hoses it in standard, if not for that it would probably be the best Creature Removal Standard has had in a very long time.

My best way to compare things is asking if Siege Rhino would even be as good in today's standard

That is a terrible way to judge cards, Siege Rhino wouldn't be as good because there isn't a good Abzan shell for it to fit in. Monastery Mentor did almost nothing in Standard because there wasn't a great deck for it to fit in..but it was so powerful in Vintage it was banned.

Though, there would probably be a Yorion deck that would 100% play it.

and I'm seeing that over here in Commander.

You talk like Commander hasn't always had it's problems. *Cough fast mana*

 

[Ebonic Tutor]

Heartless Act in 90% of game play is a strictly better Doom Blade. Ikoria just has a specific Counters Theme that hoses it in standard, if not for that it would probably be the best Creature Removal Standard has had in a very long time.

Oh yeah, I'm totally aware it's not exactly the best thing in standard creature removal wise. You can definitely tell they want it to be more about battlecruiser monster battles than it has been in a long time. I have heard some rumors that Core 2021 is gonna be a doozy too, expect at least 1 stupid busted Teferi in the set and probably a few other things. Least if they haven't gotten changed.

You talk like Commander hasn't always had it's problems. *Cough fast mana*

*Stares out of Mana Crypt with Moxen for eyes*

 

[AnotherPleb]

That is not the reason, the reason was to reduce shuffling, The Fetches were a mistake in general, watching would probably be improved in paper if they all got the axe (including Vista/Wilds/Expanse) in every format.

Fetches and shocks in Pioneer would have given the format Modern-level consistency with only a fraction of the land hate Modern has. Ignoring that fact is a bit shortsighted, and the Secret Lair: Fetches is a clear signal that they don't want to print the actual fetches in standard ever again.

Heartless Act in 90% of game play is a strictly better Doom Blade. Ikoria just has a specific Counters Theme that hoses it in standard, if not for that it would probably be the best Creature Removal Standard has had in a very long time.

That is a fair point, although the fact that so much of the power in the creatures in standard is all based on them ETBing feels like it's a bit too little. It's insane, as you do point out that Heartless Act is so strong.

That is a terrible way to judge cards, Siege Rhino wouldn't be as good because there isn't a good Abzan shell for it to fit in. Monastery Mentor did almost nothing in Standard because there wasn't a great deck for it to fit in, but it was so powerful in Vintage it was banned.

Though, there would probably be a Yorion deck that would 100% play it.

I'm starting to think Yorion's set to get banned on Monday, though Lurrus is on the chopping block too. I'll admit I'm not the best judge of creatures too, though I am a filthy casual.

You talk like Commander hasn't always had it's problems. *Cough fast mana*

Fast mana wasn't geared specifically for Commander, it's something that people grabbed after the fact. There's a lot being designed specifically for commander that's speeding the format up a lot though, and it's pretty worrying design.