The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

[The Tall Man]

Sure

Is it reasonable that a room built to the exact same specifications in a special building separated from the main building as 5 delousing chambers is also a delousing chamber?

 

[Chugger]

Is it reasonable that a room built to the exact same specifications in a special building separated from the main building as 5 delousing chambers is also a delousing chamber?

Sure

 

[Bonesjones]

Sure. The delousing chambers and the bathroom had a wall between them right? You don't know this probably but delousing in Nazi Germany typically took 24 hours, so it's not like those doors were being opened and shut constantly. And if the room was sealed gas isn't going to get out.

So why would they use sealed doors on delousing chambers but not in ones used to murder jews elsewhere?

 

[Chunky Salsa]

Nearly 300 pages...anyone changed their mind either way?

 

[Bonesjones]

Nearly 300 pages...anyone changed their mind either way?

I'm not here to change minds I'm here to dunk on retards who think the Holocaust is real

 

[Chugger]

Nearly 300 pages...anyone changed their mind either way?

Yes. A stalwart soul by the name of Rapechu. After hundreds of posts, he disappeared from the forum, but not before conceding that millions of Jews had died in German hands, including most of the "resettled" Jews. https://kiwifarms.st/threads/the-holocaust-thread.68380/page-74

 

[Bonesjones]

Yes. A stalwart soul by the name of Rapechu. After hundreds of posts, he disappeared from the forum, but not before conceding that millions of Jews had died in German hands, including most of the "resettled" Jews. https://kiwifarms.st/threads/the-holocaust-thread.68380/page-74

That doesn't support the holocaust unless you redefine the holocaust as all people who died from world War 2, faggot.

 

[Chugger]

That doesn't support the holocaust unless you redefine the holocaust as all people who died from world War 2, faggot.

Holocaust is definitionally the genocide of Jews. Other groups were subject to genocide as well. Jewish deaths to starvation and disease are counted as Holocaust deaths by historians. Even at this point Rapechu has moved much closer to me than you with his admission that millions died in German captivity. He moved even closer to me as he researched the fate of Jews in occupied USSR and saw all of the evidence pointed to the "cleansing" of Jews being mass shooting rather than resettlement operations.

That part of this thread is very informative and me and Rapechu had a testy but ultimately positive relationship, conducive to research and understanding. I recommend everyone interested in history to check it out.

 

[fresh pair of socks]

Nearly 300 pages...anyone changed their mind either way?

I've learned Chugger has a humiliation fetish.

 

[Bonesjones]

Holocaust is definitionally the genocide of Jews.

No it's the gassing and cremation of jews, holocaust is literally burnt offering you fucking idiot.

Other groups were subject to genocide as well.

You mean the ones the allies killed?

Jewish deaths to starvation and disease are counted as Holocaust deaths by historians.

Yeah to cover up the fact they couldn't prove any of them were gassed and cremated

Even at this point Rapechu has moved much closer to me than you with his admission that millions died in German captivity.

Millions dying in captivity isn't genocide, it has to be done on purpose

He moved even closer to me as he researched the fate of Jews in occupied USSR and saw all of the evidence pointed to the "cleansing" of Jews being mass shooting rather than resettlement operations.

Mass shootings of partisans isn't genocide, it's wartime deaths.

That part of this thread is very informative and me and Rapechu had a testy but ultimately positive relationship, conducive to research and understanding. I recommend everyone interested in history to check it out.

The only positive relationship you have with is aids

 

[Ignatius von Cistern]

you fucking idiot.

NSFW

 

[Bonesjones]

NSNSFW

http://www.deathcamps.org/editorial2013.html

 

[Ignatius von Cistern]

http://www.deathcamps.org/editorial2013.html

The split between ARC and Holocaust Controversies seems to be primarily over the little power that being a comprehensive online resource on the Holocaust affords. Both accuse one another of toying with faked material. Ultimately, I believe the story is that ARC did not agree with HC's policy of engaging holocaust revisionists on any level while for their own part have actually featured faked material at some stage.

Both resources argue the holocaust to have been real.

 

[Bonesjones]

The split between ARC and Holocaust Controversies seems to be primarily over the little power that being a comprehensive online resource on the Holocaust affords. Both accuse one another of toying with faked material. Ultimately, I believe the story is that ARC did not agree with HC's policy of engaging holocaust revisionists on any level while for their own part have actually featured faked material at some stage.

Both resources argue the holocaust to have been real.

It's so real they need to forge documents to make it real.

 

[Ignatius von Cistern]

It's so real they need to forge documents to make it real.

What's an example of a forged document, featured on either resource?

And more to the point, what's an example of a document either resource had supposedly forged?

From memory the issue between those two was that ARC got careless with vetting new material and had accepted a couple of fakes. This was later corrected. Now, ARC accuse HC of faking the material, while HC state the issue lies elsewhere entirely, which is their policy to engage deniers and revisionists and the fake material is just an excuse. It's retarded holocaust nerd drama, but it doesn't make the holocaust not real.

 

[Bonesjones]

What's an example of a forged document, featured on either resource?

And more to the point, what's an example of a document either resource had supposedly forged?

I don't know nor care, I consider documents and eye witness testimony worthless. I only rely on physical evidence to make my case. Unfortunately the holocaust relies entirely on document and eye witness testimony, as admitted in the David Irving legal case.

From memory the issue between those two was that ARC got careless with vetting new material and had accepted a couple of fakes. This was later corrected. Now, ARC accuse HC of faking the material, while HC state the issue lies elsewhere entirely, which is their policy to engage deniers and revisionists and the fake material is just an excuse.

They don't engage with revisionists because their evidence is faulty and doesn't withstand basic scrutiny.

Why would HC need to fake anything to engage with anyone? At no point have revisionists not been willing to argue their case. It's only holocaust propagandists who do that, because they know if they let people make inroads in questioning the Holocaust, their gravy train falls apart. That's why call anyone doing academic study of revision as unacademic and faulty before they even look at what they are saying.

It's retarded holocaust nerd drama, but it doesn't make the holocaust not real.

Its both, holocaust propagandists have had over 80 years to solidify and make their case and have been unable to do so, their actions haven't resulted in a better more scientific understanding, but only in obfuscation of facts.

As always there's a few simple questions that destroy the holocaust narrative.

1. Where are the direct orders for genocide? The allies had defeated all axis encryption before the wars end, so where is any holocaust communication?

2. Why would they use extremely time and laborous methods to gas jews when they were already diseased and starving?

3. Where is all the physical remains from the cremation, that requires millions of tons of any fuel source that can't be located and has long lasting environmental effects?

Just look at holocaust poster child Anne Franke, why did she travel through 2 death camps to die in a hospital?

 

[Ignatius von Cistern]

I don't know nor care, I consider documents and eye witness testimony worthless.

every court knows and cares.

I only rely on physical evidence to make my case.

Have you gone to Poland and verified this? rhetorical question.

To address the points at the end of your post:

1 the allies have not decrypted everything, but these instructions were likely not sent by radio or telegraph. the germans knew what they were doing was immoral and veiled it in euphemisms such as "deportation to the east for special treatment"

2 the jews were healthy at the onset of war. the ones that were not shot or gassed immediately were worked to death.

3 just as an exampe, the "bor" in Sobibor means "forest." in that particular case the fuel was felled timber from the surrounding forests worked by a well-stocked crew of captives who dug up and cremated the dead and continued cremating the corpses of new arrivals.

4 anne frank's demise is not well documented. they suspect typhus. because the people that gave us mozart and goethe also stuffed thousands of people into barracks with poor food and no sanitation.

 

[Bonesjones]

every court knows and cares.

So if eye witness testimony and documentary evidence is your standard, that makes Bigfoot more real than the holocaust. Do you believe in Bigfoot?

Also when we look at the Nuremberg trials full of tortured witnesses, why would you believe in objective courts?

Have you gone to Poland and verified this? rhetorical question.

As a holocaust denier, I cant travel through much of Europe for fear of arrest for the denial of truth. Funny how you need to arrest people to show true something is.

1 the allies have not decrypted everything, but these instructions were likely not sent by radio or telegraph. the germans knew what they were doing was immoral and veiled it in euphemisms such as "deportation to the east for special treatment"

None of that fits in any logical nor illogical way. You can't have millions of people gladly genocided and keep it a secret. You can't have millions of anything without massive logistical support. It's just a holocaust propaganda cope. Remember they had to gas them because direct murder was so traumatizing, so how does any of it fit?

2 the jews were healthy at the onset of war. the ones that were not shot or gassed immediately were worked to death.

Yet millions survived, funny how all these inefficient methods of death had a lack of results, almost like the goal wasn't genocide at all.

3 just as an exampe, the "bor" in Sobibor means "forest." in that particular case the fuel was felled timber from the surrounding forests worked by a well-stocked crew of captives who dug up and cremated the dead and continued cremating the corpses of new arrivals.

So you think they killed and buried people, dug them up, just to cremate them again?

4 anne frank's demise is not well documented. they suspect typhus. because the people that gave us mozart and goethe also stuffed thousands of people into barracks with poor food and no sanitation.

Except aerial photos disprove that as well as your theory of using wood to burn corpses, since there are no stockpiles in any of them.

All evidence supports the fact that Jewish expulsion was stopped by the war, where they were put in labor camps, which as the war went on with Allied bombing campaigns destroying infrastructure caused massive disease and starvation. Post war all attempts at treating it was recontextualized as being genocidal.

 

[Chugger]

1 the allies have not decrypted everything, but these instructions were likely not sent by radio or telegraph. the germans knew what they were doing was immoral and veiled it in euphemisms such as "deportation to the east for special treatment"

The only orders that would satisfy Bonesjones, would be a Himmler radio message, "Kill all Jews, everwhere,." specifying that everywhere is the whole of German occupied territory. Apparently Himmler would necessarily be sending these radio messages one by one, to each local commander, who really only had jurisdiction over a limited area. Because no messages of this kind exist, to Bonesjones this is critical evidence that the Holocaust Did Not Happen.

What do we do have are radio telegrams like this, from Himmler to the Second Cavalry Regiment: "Explicit order of the RFSS. All Jews must be shot. Jewish women to be driven into the swamp."

Later we have this (from David Irving's site)

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https://old.fpp.co.uk/old-web/Auschwitz/docs/PoliceDecodes.html

On September 2, 1941 Churchill is shown a brief report from Nigel de Grey on 'German Police,' a report to Himmler dated August 26, 1941 : 'A report from the Berditschew Korosten area mentions that the Russians are still retiring and burning the villages. Prisoners taken number 47, Jews shot 1246, losses nil.' Churchill rings the '1,246' in red ink. [PRO file HW.1/40] On October 13, 1941 Churchill read a summary which included German police messages analysed by Nigel de Grey two days earlier: 'On 26/9 arrangements were being made for a 3 or 4 day visit by Himmler to the Southern Area of the Russian front. Places to be visited were Shitomir, Berditschew (where the dwellings etc. of the German colonies were the attraction. Dept Note .: It will be remembered that the Russians were reported to have removed the German population to Siberia.) Thence to Kiew, if possible to Uman, then Krivoi-Rog, Nikolaiew and possibly Cherson. He was accompanied by his fleet of cars including his wireless car. 'On 13/9 the 3 officers commanding on the North, Centre and South Russian Front were reminded that the danger of their messages being decoded was great. Among other secret matters that should not be sent by wireless was the number of executions carried out.' On September 13, 1941 Kurt Daluege, Chef der Ordnungspolizei, sent the following message to the HSSuPf of the forces in Russia, 'The danger of decipherment by the enemy of wireless messages is great. For this reason only such matters are to be transmitted by wireless as can be considered open [groups missed]. Confidential or Secret, but not information which is containing State secrets, calls for especially secret treatment. Into this category fall exact figures of executions (these are to be sent by Courier) ' The scale of these executions was 'a clear indication of the utter ruthlessness of the Germans in Russia.' The GC&CS report adds, 'The anxiety may have been increased by a speech by the Prime Minister drawing the attention of the world to this carnage. In any case the German authorities evidently demanded more drastic steps still, and these culminated in a complete change of cypher in mid-September. Double transposition [a straightforward system, and relatively simple to break] was dropped (never to appear to again) and Double Playfair took its place.'

So we have radio message saying they were going to stop transmitting this kind of information by radio.

 

[Ignatius von Cistern]

@Bonesjones:

1 This isn't about bigfoot
2 Nuremburg "tortured witnesses" - because being in a deathcamp is torture.
3 As a holocaust denier you can travel, just not deny the holocaust. You don't make German laws, the Germans do.
4 Millions were killed and it's not a secret. The logistical means of the entirety of Europe was available for this as well as many other tasks, the main being attacking the Soviet Union. In comparison by scale, the holocaust was a footnote.
5 Taken at face value, all these millions of jews were resettled in the East. In the immediate rear of advancing German armies on the Eastern front. OK. Where are they and their offspring? OK, so some immigrated to Israel and the USA. Again where are these millions of emigres?
6 "So you think they killed and buried people, dug them up, just to cremate them again?"
yes not "again", but to cremate them and yes that's precisely what happened. more specifically, they would sometimes build the cremation grids on top of the existing mass graves, gradually "compacting" the "material."
7 The allied aerial photos of Auschwitz are well known, you can see the gassing facilities and the adjacent incineration pits, smoke and all.
8 There were both labour and death camps. Both not OK.

@Chugger there is no need to get into the minutia. This stuff falls apart right at the surface.