The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

[Chugger]

Well reading it, for a start it looks kinda bitchy and gossipy don't you think?

ok ... go on. I need to see a thousand words from you about this document in order to know you're not an npc about this subject and worth talking to

No it's just that they pass for whites, sometimes consider themselves white, yet seek their minority interests.

how does this create problems? ashkenazi are half white on a genetic level, btw

3. How could such a large conspiracy be maintained?

this is the toughest thing. conspiracy with a small number of participants or witnesses is doable, because theoretically you can keep a small group under control. though even with watergate, which only was a handful people, someone leaked it

but with the moon landing stuff, there are the ones who presumably faked it directly , everyone else at NASA who may have known, the hundreds of people given roles in the 'fake' landing cover story, which you can read about in any detailed book about apollo 11. all of these people have to be managed somehow, for years, decades

but with the holocaust , we have the 2+ million resettled Jews, the potentially millions of other Soviet witnesses to resettlement, and then all the German, Romanian, Hungarian, Italians witnesses, most of whom returned to the west. in my mind anyone who thinks it's possible for this amount of people to be silenced has entered the realm of science fiction or fantasy, but I guess I'm willing to hear you out

 

[Jewish Porn Hoe]

That is not evidence then.

Which you cannot know unless you investigate the relationship and truth value of things presented as evidence for the theory proposed.
Your definition of conspiracy theory is pretty fucking stupid anyway.

 

[Lemmingwise]

everyone else at NASA who may have known,

Why would everyone have known?

United states was able to develop nukes, with hundreds of thousands people working on it and only a handful of people in the know about what they were actually doing.

Or take a smaller conspiracy, like volkswagen programming their cars to notice when they're being tested for safety and to give a different performance than regular. It doesn't require every mechanic who helped built their cars to know this software quirk.

And... if we're talking about the conspiracy now, that may well have been the result of people that anonymously spread the truth, wanting to protect their family and professional career. How can you argue that the conspiracy is kept if so much information showing that it's a conspiracy is in the public domain?

 

[Chugger]

Why would everyone have known?

United states was able to develop nukes, with hundreds of thousands people working on it and only a handful of people in the know about what they were actually doing.

the moon program was not top secret. unlike manhattan project publicly announced. maybe some of the technical specs were concealed, but everyone seems to have known what the deal was

400,000 people employed. it seems these people were given real jobs (no cover story). from the perspective of conspiracy theorists then, the US really intended to put men on the moon but failed from a technical perspective or didn't want to risk disaster, so they faked it with a small crew

So in terms of "cover up" this is conceivable, unlike resettlement of millions of Jews

 

[mgc]

the moon program was not top secret. unlike manhattan project publicly announced. maybe some of the technical specs were concealed, but everyone seems to have known what the deal was

View attachment 3603566

400,000 people employed. it seems these people were given real jobs (no cover story). from the perspective of conspiracy theorists then, the US really intended to put men on the moon but failed from a technical perspective or didn't want to risk disaster, so they faked it with a small crew

So in terms of "cover up" this is conceivable, unlike resettlement of millions of Jews

Why are you arguing with them about the moon landing? We get enough kookiness from them on the Holocaust, stick to that.

 

[Lemmingwise]

Why are you arguing with them about the moon landing? We get enough kookiness from them on the Holocaust, stick to that.

Lmao, no need to get offended.

No need to tell @Chugger what to do. He defended your juvenile fuel claim, you should be more respectful to him.

the moon program was not top secret. unlike manhattan project publicly announced. maybe some of the technical specs were concealed, but everyone seems to have known what the deal was

View attachment 3603566

400,000 people employed. it seems these people were given real jobs (no cover story). from the perspective of conspiracy theorists then, the US really intended to put men on the moon but failed from a technical perspective or didn't want to risk disaster, so they faked it with a small crew

So in terms of "cover up" this is conceivable, unlike resettlement of millions of Jews

I think there is a three step fail in your presumptions in regards to holocaust, but I'm glad we agree of how the manned moonlanding is conceivably a scam.

 

[Chugger]

I think there is a three step fail in your presumptions in regards to holocaust, but I'm glad we agree of how the manned moonlanding is conceivably a scam.

well I haven't looked at your other evidence, which seems dumb upon cursory glance. but I agree with History, this is a topic for the moon landing hoax thread if there is one. i was merely remarking in broad terms that a cover up involving dozens or even hundreds of people is conceivable.

where am I going wrong with my thinking that the USSR would not, under any conceivable circumstances, be able to silence millions of witnesses to resettlement living within and outside of its borders? (in the decades following the war, and dissolution of the USSR)

 

[Stabmaster Arson]

For anyone who thinks cover ups and conspiracies never happen, look up Tuskagee.

 

[Stan]

For anyone who thinks cover ups and conspiracies never happen, look up Tuskagee.

That would be easier to do if you knew how to spell the name of the place where it happened.

No it's just that they pass for whites, sometimes consider themselves white, yet seek their minority interests.

What do you think? Is every human individual and group the same?

I think you recused yourself from the “Judaism: ethnicity or religion?” debate when you came out as a literal Nazi but that’s just me m8

Why would everyone have known?

United states was able to develop nukes, with hundreds of thousands people working on it and only a handful of people in the know about what they were actually doing.

Or take a smaller conspiracy, like volkswagen programming their cars to notice when they're being tested for safety and to give a different performance than regular. It doesn't require every mechanic who helped built their cars to know this software quirk.

And... if we're talking about the conspiracy now, that may well have been the result of people that anonymously spread the truth, wanting to protect their family and professional career. How can you argue that the conspiracy is kept if so much information showing that it's a conspiracy is in the public domain?

And here I thought I could joke “what’s next, are you all gonna say the moon landing didn’t happen” but here we are. Wish I had a moon rock, I’d throw it right now In frustration.

 

[Basado]

Never forget the 6 gorillion you guys personally turned into lampshades

 

[Lemmingwise]

And here I thought I could joke “what’s next, are you all gonna say the moon landing didn’t happen” but here we are. Wish I had a moon rock, I’d throw it right now In frustration

Also there were dancing israelis on 9/11.

 

[Stabmaster Arson]

That would be easier to do if you knew how to spell the name of the place where it happened.

Are you trying to say that the 40 year long Tuskagee experiment (Google still shows it first even with that spelling, get bent faggot) conspiracy didn't exist?

Too big a lie to be real?

 

[mgc]

Zo, I would be interested in hearing your explanation for the diary entries of Auschwitz doctor Johann Paul Kremer (translation from Mattogno's book Special Treatment in Auschwitz), who participated in "selections" at Auschwitz. -

September 2, 1942

“For the 1st time present outside at 3 am at a special operation. Compared to this, Dante’s Inferno seems to me almost like a comedy. Auschwitz isn’t called the camp of annihilation in vain!”

October 18, 1942

“Present at the 11th special operation (Dutch nationals) this Sunday morning, with damp, cold weather. Dreadful scenes with three women, who pleaded for their very lives.”

Note that on October 18, 1942, 1,710 Jewish deportees arrived from the Netherlands. The large majority were not "selected" for labor, and thus were not registered or admitted into the camp. I Wonder what happened to them?

Relatedly, if "special operation" is not a euphemism for killing, why are these Dutch Jewish women pleading for their lives?

Also, please do not post 50 Mattogno pages in response to this. I am reading this guy's books already. Paraphrase an argument from him if you want, even quote him if you wish, but no bloated copypastas.

 

[Chugger]

your explanation for the diary entries of Auschwitz doctor Johann Paul Kremer

yeah I made this meme graphic earlier to present the information more clearly. I forgot to include the part where in response to Kremer using the term anus mundi (anus of the world) in reference to the special actions, Faurisson says this is a about how typhus can cause anal bleeding

no revisionist has been able to tell me what a 'special action' is. the two possibilities Faurisson mentions are nonsensical in light of the diary entries

 

[Bonesjones]

This being Kiwi Farms, I’ve been thouroughly catchecized in the pitfalls of being forthright to anybody about anything.

Guys I have to lie I'm on kiwifarms! No one else could possibly be telling the truth here.

I use it as an example of the ridiculous-on-its-face claims you make about the Holocaust. You had some other choice ones; "who says Jews have memories? They turn rumors into narrative", was one, "Dr. Mengele was a caring physician fighting typhus in the camps", is another "Carlo Mattogno is a respected historian", a third; "I'm a Nazi, AMA" is another. Combine it with your penchant to dismiss any evidence as fake/lies/coercion/Jewish Illuminati conspiracy and you’ve built yourself a nice little mental fortification from which to confidently argue the sky is green.

Memories are often wrong and considering the high rates of schizophrenia in jews, maybe we should get a second opinion.

Doctors are routinely subhuman scum who use the prestige of office to push terrible crimes against humanity, that doesn't make them bad at their job though.

Respect depends entirely on who you ask. Kiwifarms is respected amongst free speech absolutist and gossipy bitches. Amongst everyone else? Not so much.

Maybe fix your own life before worrying about history bro
mmk ty bones

You can just choose not to be Jewish and live a happy and fulfilling life. There's a whole book about rejecting the false teachings of the pharasees and living a better life.

1) Did non-working Jews receive health care? (Note that I do not deny that sick able-bodied Jews received health care, but a 25-year old man with the flu receiving health care is not the same as 5 year old or a paraplegic receiving health care. Mattogno's book basically relies on a semantical conflation of ill but able bodied Jews versus non-able bodied Jews. Btw the latter were the overwhelming majority, and killed as "useless eaters" upon arrival.)

Didn't you post a chart about hungarian jews who included a bunch of useless eaters being deported?

2) Was the health care "high-quality"? (This defies common sense. Look at pic related, the living quarters of the Jews. Obviously the Nazis did not care about their well-being, but just wanted to do the bare minimum to keep them alive for labor.)

Wait till you see what the average modern jail cell looks like. They aren't even having to constantly delouse everyone.

Pretty much every single conspiracy theory I've studied relies on tons of evidence for it. It may be misrepresented or falsehoods or the causal relationships may not work out on a second or third look but it's "evidence" nontheless.

Most conspiracy theories involve making connections and acknowledgement of the gaps in knowledge and why.

how does this create problems? ashkenazi are half white on a genetic level, btw

You are 99% banana on a DNA level, sometimes the differences are more important than the similarities.

Why would everyone have known?

We know how classification of secret information works, it's public knowledge and you can research how and why it works. The absolute basics is compartmentalize and only distribute on a need to know basis.

the moon program was not top secret.

The moon program was the public facing story for many different programs under NASA, the military, and many other organizations. Remember when the hubble launched and was fucked up and the national reconnaissance office basically fixed it for them using one of their old satellites. No one even knew the office existed until this happened, basically.

where am I going wrong with my thinking that the USSR would not, under any conceivable circumstances, be able to silence millions of witnesses to resettlement living within and outside of its borders? (in the decades following the war, and dissolution of the USSR)

Its hard to get testimony from people killed by the USSR. You know since they killed 60 million of them.

I think you recused yourself from the “Judaism: ethnicity or religion?” debate when you came out as a literal Nazi but that’s just me m8

People who hate themselves don't really get a say in how people should behave.

Wish I had a moon rock, I’d throw it right now In frustration.

Just go to Antarctica, they are just laying around.

 

[Lemmingwise]

You are 99% banana on a DNA level, sometimes the differences are more important than the similarities.

Technically this comes from a study that compared the gene products that they could compare between humans and banana's (which is only 60% as the remainder was too different to be comparable between the two), and of that 60%, 40% was identical. So it's more accurate to say we share about 24% of gene products with banana's.

You can go for chimpanzees and make the same point though, where we share 99%.

 

[mrolonzo]

This being Kiwi Farms, I’ve been thouroughly catchecized in the pitfalls of being forthright to anybody about anything.

Now you tell us there are pitfalls in truth and honesty.

We literally tell you that you are dishonest and foul. Now you freely admit this.

In slightly different ways this is the case also for Chugger and HS.

I use it as an example of the ridiculous-on-its-face claims you make about the Holocaust.

Wow. Why do you even ?

Stan saying a thing is this or that is completely irrelevant to the facts. Everyone on this thread agrees this is so.

It's only ridiculous to those who've been propagandised to believe whatever they're told.

You had some other choice ones; "who says Jews have memories? They turn rumors into narrative", w

Easily demonstrated. Read Filip Muller.

as one, "Dr. Mengele was a caring physician fighting typhus in the camps

Easily demonstrated. What we do have from him is that he denies any wrongdoing. So this accords with the record.

", is another "Carlo Mattogno is a respected historian",

No historian has ever countered his work. Which is extensive and detailed.

In fact I'd be hard pressed to find a better historian. And when I ask your people. You are unable to provide any.

a third; "I'm a Nazi, AMA" is another.

Why is that ridiculous?

I didn't say im a member of the 1921 NSDAP.

Combine it with your penchant to dismiss any evidence as fake/lies/coercion/Jewish Illuminati conspiracy and you’ve built yourself a nice little mental fortification from which to confidently argue the sky is green.

Now that's ridiculous. We don't dismiss every document. Ive literally posted authors citing direct evidence myself.

I certainly do not deny that Jewish slave-laborers at Auschwitz received health care. Our dispute on health care is over two questions.

1) Did non-working Jews receive health care? (Note that I do not deny that sick able-bodied Jews received health care, but a 25-year old man with the flu receiving health care is not the same as 5 year old or a paraplegic receiving health care. Mattogno's book basically relies on a semantical conflation of ill but able bodied Jews versus non-able bodied Jews. Btw the latter were the overwhelming majority, and killed as "useless eaters" upon arrival.)

No such conflation occurs.

2) Was the health care "high-quality"? (This defies common sense. Look at pic related, the living quarters of the Jews. Obviously the Nazis did not care about their well-being, but just wanted to do the bare minimum to keep them alive for labor.)

Ridiculous. The living quarters was not the hospital.

There is one exception -at the end of 1944, when the Soviets were weeks away, the Germans tried to cover up their crimes. This meant an end to the exterminations at Auschwitz and an order from Himmler to provide better treatment to the Jews, including better health care. At this time, non-working Jews could have received health care.

So Jews got healthcare you admit. But you posit that the old and infirm were gassed. You fail to explain when asked, the procedure for gassing the infirm, who cannot walk into a gas chamber.
And no one was gassed at Auschwitz anyway because there were no homicidal gas chambers as Pressac's criminal traces, being the best evidence you have, was debunked by Mattogno and Rudolf from two different angles you refused to counter.

ok ... go on. I need to see a thousand words from you about this document in order to know you're not an npc about this subject and worth talking to

Uh no. You go on. I asked you what you think.

No one is interested in your fake npc word play. An npc is a non player character derived from computer games who gives no thought to the issue or these specific issues.

If im not worth talking to for you that's fine by me.

how does this create problems? ashkenazi are half white on a genetic level, btw

It's simple. They see themselves as a persecuted minority. Their best chance from persecution is therefore multi culturalism.

That would be easier to do if you knew how to spell the name of the place where it happened.

I think you recused yourself from the “Judaism: ethnicity or religion?” debate when you came out as a literal Nazi but that’s just me m8

And here I thought I could joke “what’s next, are you all gonna say the moon landing didn’t happen” but here we are. Wish I had a moon rock, I’d throw it right now In frustration.

Again. Unable to answer a single question.

Zo, I would be interested in hearing your explanation for the diary entries of Auschwitz doctor Johann Paul Kremer (translation from Mattogno's book Special Treatment in Auschwitz), who participated in "selections" at Auschwitz. -

September 2, 1942

October 18, 1942


Note that on October 18, 1942, 1,710 Jewish deportees arrived from the Netherlands. The large majority were not "selected" for labor, and thus were not registered or admitted into the camp. I Wonder what happened to them?

Relatedly, if "special operation" is not a euphemism for killing, why are these Dutch Jewish women pleading for their lives?

Also, please do not post 50 Mattogno pages in response to this. I am reading this guy's books already. Paraphrase an argument from him if you want, even quote him if you wish, but no bloated copypastas.

The term s.b. is dealt with extensively by the very author you're reading. So just tell us yourself from this reading.

yeah I made this meme graphic earlier to present the information more clearly. I forgot to include the part where in response to Kremer using the term anus mundi (anus of the world) in reference to the special actions, Faurisson says this is a about how typhus can cause anal bleeding

View attachment 3604154

no revisionist has been able to tell me what a 'special action' is. the two possibilities Faurisson mentions are nonsensical in light of the diary entries

S.b. is dealt with, as your friend HS will attest.

Why are you arguing with them about the moon landing? We get enough kookiness from them on the Holocaust, stick to that.

The moon landing topic isn't actually about the moon landing. It's about how anyone can know anything. You should have cottoned on by now to this.

 

[mgc]

We are talking about the "special actions" Kremer describes in his diary, in which he says the selected are naked and (in one case) pleading for their lives. He also says "Auschwitz is not called a camp of annihilation in vain" after witnessing a special action.

You have no response to these I take it? Mattogno's response is to suggest that the victims were only pleading for their lives because they had been misled by false rumors of gas chambers (a theory contradicted by Kremer's description of special actions as the worst of the worst, and representative of an "extermination camp").

 

[Chugger]

@mrolonzo

yeah you are a bot, at least when it comes to holocaust stuff. incapable of even paraphrasing mattogno re kremer.

It's simple. They see themselves as a persecuted minority. Their best chance from persecution is therefore multi culturalism.

maybe that's one of the reasons they advocate for it, but what's the problem here?

 

[potato in mah painus]

Ill bring this up about the moon landing, and why it differs from the holocaust:

You can charter time with surface side telescopes to see many of these with your own eyes, direct irrefutable proof of the flights and landings. Same way with flat earth, I can disprove that stupidity with a sun dial, pencil, and paper they way our ancestors did.
The holocaust as we know it isn't anywhere near as clear cut, its retarded to even consider what we know about the events fact and set in stone.