The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

[Bonesjones]

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The only thing he crushes is his retard helmet against the wall.

 

[Azula]

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Says the holocaust denier lol

 

[Chugger]

for the record I am embarrassed by the enjoyment I get from stomping deniers in these discussions (@Lemmingwise is correct to call me smarmy), but in my defense the people I'm talking to are equally trollish. when i've had more mutually respectful conversations, such as with departed Rapechu, the tone has been much better.

 

[mgc]

for the record I am embarrassed by the enjoyment I get from stomping deniers in these discussions (@Lemmingwise is correct to call me smarmy), but in my defense the people I'm talking to are equally trollish. when i've had more mutually respectful conversations, such as with departed Rapechu, the tone has been much better.

It is a paradox because you, otoh, you feel like a chump when you are trying to be polite and earnest but only get insults.

 

[Bonesjones]

Peak, "flipping over the board and declaring yourself the winner" moment.

 

[Lemmingwise]

(@Lemmingwise is correct to call me smarmy)

It's nice of you to admit you are not believable

 

[Chugger]

It's nice of you to admit you are not believable

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yeah I know I act "fake nice" sometimes but I think you're getting at something deeper. What exactly?

 

[Bonesjones]

yeah I know I act "fake nice" sometimes but I think you're getting at something deeper. What exactly?

You are a lying retard.

 

[Chugger]

You are a lying retard.

this goes beyond the personal. Lemmingwise said on the previous page he feels "affirmists almost all act " this way . I wonder if he can flesh out what he means here. What are we lying about?

 

[Bonesjones]

this goes beyond the personal. Lemmingwise said on the previous page he feels "affirmists almost all act " this way . I wonder if he can flesh out what he means here. What are we lying about?

Who cares? You are a lying retard.

 

[mrolonzo]

you mean this?



so this is not an "operational rule of conduct", but a pledge for low ranking camp guards, and it says if Himmler authorized killing it is permissible + unregistered Jews were never officially inmates. so no it's not very good evidence


"refutation" is not positive evidence. I wouldn't say my refutation of your 'camp guard pledge' is evidence that Jews were mass murdered

If you have documents that you think show the non-homicidal nature of the crema, by all means let's see them. I think the best evidence you have is that in documents for the most part the alleged gas chambers are referred to as "corpse cellars", but you don't need to read through 600 pages of pilpul to learn this

there's nothing else about the construction of the buildings that evidences they were non-homicidal, but feel free to post any documents. something like documents showing the "dummy" shower heads were connected to water pipes would suffice


I think obviously more than 40% were capable of labor, but the available documents state there was no intention of putting them to work. Instead, as in Goebbels, liquidated.

In fact. Everything about the building documents showed they're non homicidal.

Dummy showers were 14 showers that holocaust peddlers imagined to be dummy showers but in fact were part of an incomplete project for extensive shower facilities using available heat at the Kremas.

See attached. So in what way isn't all these pages with the documents referred to therein positive proof that the holocaust allegations are unfounded in these specific regards?

Perhaps you'd like to argue that the various documents referred to are proof of the holocaust?

yeah I know I act "fake nice" sometimes but I think you're getting at something deeper. What exactly?

The fake act, belies true malice obviously.
In other ways we have deliberate deception in the cause of flimsy arguments by effecting a pretense of being interested in the details.

Here with me for example, you pretend you have read the book yet cannot quote from anything. Further you like to quote Goebbels but only those parts you like. This is demonstrative of a feature of holocaust promoters, they can they out all kinds of allegations but are sparse on the actual history of the allegations I.e. who said what, be it literature or testimony. Again the holocaust cannot be defended. It can only be propagated.

 

[mgc]

In fact. Everything about the building documents showed they're non homicidal.

Because Mattogno can dream up non-homicidal explanations for some elements of the constructions plans does not disprove the Holocaust nor disprove gassings in the cremas. You still have to deal with all the non-coercive confessions (Speer Letter, Eichmann Argentina tapes and diary entries, Grand Mufti of Jerusalem), the numerous contemporaneous documents (from Himmler, Hitler, Hans Frank, Goebbels , Ley, and other top Nazi leaders) referring to extermination policy, and the lack of any credible (evidence-rooted) alternative explanation for the disappearance of millions of Jews in the Nazi camp system.

But you do not even manage to cast doubt on Pressac's criminal traces. Many of Mattogno's "benign" explanations for Pressac's criminal traces are preposterous. For example in an attempt to explain away the "Vergasungskeller" document cited by Pressac, Mattogno actually says that "the most reasonable interpretation" is that the SS planned to install a temporary emergency gas chamber in crema II.

That is completely laughable and implausible. There is no reason to install a delousing chamber underground. The only reason to install any kind of gas chamber underground (given the increased technical difficulty of carrying out gassings in the lower temperature) is if you want to conceal it. Therefore, the "Vergasungskeller" in crema II makes no sense as a delousing chamber, but plenty of sense as a homicidal gas chamber (insofar as it allowed the killings to be concealed from the other prisoners).

Also, why would the SS talk euphemistically about à simple delousing chamber, using weird code words? ("Vergasungskeller"). Mattogno is coping hard bro.

 

[Chugger]

Because Mattogno can dream up non-homicidal explanations for some elements of the constructions plans does not disprove the Holocaust nor disprove gassings in the cremas.

yes, and even documents which might be used as positive evidence -- such as those showing unrealized plans for using the exhaust from the Cremas to provide hot showers -- in no way preclude homicidal activity

There is no reason to install a delousing chamber underground. The only reason to install any kind of gas chamber underground (given the increased technical difficulty of carrying out gassings in the lower temperature) is if you want to conceal it.

Mattogno's "emergency" delousing chamber is also 210 square meters, probably 10-20x bigger than average , which compounds this problem. I doubt a delousing chamber even a quarter of this size was used anywhere in NS Germany

(this one in stutthof is 18 square meters )

the HCN concentration needed for lice killing is really high (20-50x the lethal dose for humans) , so using a room this large is senseless. Mattogno shows his hypocrisy with his assessment that this function was reasonable.

 

[mrolonzo]

Because Mattogno can dream up non-homicidal explanations for some elements of the constructions plans does not disprove the Holocaust nor disprove gassings in the cremas. You still have to deal with all the non-coercive confessions (Speer Letter, Eichmann Argentina tapes and diary entries, Grand Mufti of Jerusalem), the numerous contemporaneous documents (from Himmler, Hitler, Hans Frank, Goebbels , Ley, and other top Nazi leaders) referring to extermination policy, and the lack of any credible (evidence-rooted) alternative explanation for the disappearance of millions of Jews in the Nazi camp system.

But you do not even manage to cast doubt on Pressac's criminal traces. Many of Mattogno's "benign" explanations for Pressac's criminal traces are preposterous. For example in an attempt to explain away the "Vergasungskeller" document cited by Pressac, Mattogno actually says that "the most reasonable interpretation" is that the SS planned to install a temporary emergency gas chamber in crema II.

That is completely laughable and implausible. There is no reason to install a delousing chamber underground. The only reason to install any kind of gas chamber underground (given the increased technical difficulty of carrying out gassings in the lower temperature) is if you want to conceal it. Therefore, the "Vergasungskeller" in crema II makes no sense as a delousing chamber, but plenty of sense as a homicidal gas chamber (insofar as it allowed the killings to be concealed from the other prisoners).

Also, why would the SS talk euphemistically about à simple delousing chamber, using weird code words? ("Vergasungskeller"). Mattogno is coping hard bro.View attachment 3573614

In fact explaining these indirect "traces" in terms of all the actual documents of the camp at the time directly disproved the gassings at the Kremas as this is hard evidence, as in actual invoices and memos of the time directly referring to the issues involved of the time, where with no one watching, no audience in attendance no confessor the nazis organised ordinary hygiene projects.

Confessions coerced or not are not hard evidence.

You're "what about Hitler !?" Cope is noted. While skewed interpretations of senior nazi speeches and diary entries are not hard evidence of either orders or plans to kill or of deaths. Nor are allegations made based on population numbers.

Further the delousing chambers are underground therefore murder meme is imagined. Not real. Lice are unconcerned how above or below ground they are in human habitats.

yes, and even documents which might be used as positive evidence -- such as those showing unrealized plans for using the exhaust from the Cremas to provide hot showers -- in no way preclude homicidal activity

Mattogno's "emergency" delousing chamber is also 210 square meters, probably 10-20x bigger than average , which compounds this problem. I doubt a delousing chamber even a quarter of this size was used anywhere in NS Germany

(this one in stutthof is 18 square meters )

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As always the holocaust peddler doesn't post the entire quotes or sections they want to use against you.

the HCN concentration needed for lice killing is really high (20-50x the lethal dose for humans) , so using a room this large is senseless. Mattogno shows his hypocrisy with his assessment that this function was reasonable.

In fact. Using heat for hygiene directly disproved the holocaust and precludes homicidal activity.

Your gishgalloping by chucking in other issues without dealing with the first is noted.

 

[JohnDoe]

Your gishgalloping by chucking in other issues without dealing with the first is noted.

Notice also that @Chugger has yet to disprove my Moon Settlement evidence.

 

[mgc]

You're "what about Hitler !?" Cope is noted. While skewed interpretations of senior nazi speeches and diary entries are not hard evidence of either orders or plans to kill or of deaths. Nor are allegations made based on population numbers.

I am not talking about a Hitler speech. I am talking about his remark to Horthy (backed up by Horthy's testimony as well as the recorded minutes of the meeting) that Polish Jews who were not able to work "had to perish." That is completely consistent with the (genocidal) Nazi policy towards the Jews that mainstream historians talk about, and completely inconsistent with your fantasy world. And there are numerous other documents that back it up.

 

[mrolonzo]

I am not talking about a Hitler speech. I am talking about his remark to Horthy (backed up by Horthy's testimony as well as the recorded minutes of the meeting) that Polish Jews who were not able to work "had to perish." That is completely consistent with the (genocidal) Nazi policy towards the Jews that mainstream historians talk about, and completely inconsistent with your fantasy world. And there are numerous other documents that back it up.

LMAO. "Dude im not talking about all the speeches or an order, a rule, a plan or a budget but there was this one time you can definitely say he meant kill all the Jews. It's totally consistent man!"

 

[mgc]

LMAO. "Dude im not talking about all the speeches or an order, a rule, a plan or a budget but there was this one time you can definitely say he meant kill all the Jews. It's totally consistent man!"

These documents really do not require much "interpretation". Frank speaking of sentencing 1.2 million Polish Jews to death by hunger is obviously genocidal. Himmler saying that we had to "kill these people who wanted to kill us", and that the Jewish women and children had to be kiilled too is obviously genocidal. Ley saying that we will not rest until the last Jew in Europe is "dead" (gestorben) is obviously genocidal.

The only "interpretation" going on is on the side of deniers and neo-nazis, who are ironically employing the kind of postmodernist methods associated with the pseudo-academic Left, to obscure the meaning of plainly genocidal statements by the Nazis.

 

[Chugger]

Using heat for hygiene directly disproved the holocaust

I can add 'tentative plans to use the exhaust from the cremas to provide hot water for hygienic showers' to the list, but out of curiosity, why do you think this is relevant?

Notice also that @Chugger has yet to disprove my Moon Settlement evidence.

I don't know why you keep bringing this up cuz it's an old joke of mine. yeah the amount of evidence for moon resettlement is equal to the evidence for land resettlement in Russia, which was the official story of the Nazi government.

The only "interpretation" going on is on the side of deniers, who are ironically employing postmodernist and nihilistic methods to obscure the meaning of plainly genocidal statements by the Nazis.

Thanks to Thomas Dalton I know that Goebbels viewed liquidation as being different than evacuation, so perhaps they should argue Goebbels was suffering from micro strokes when he wrote these entries

 

[mgc]

LOL "It may in fact refer to killings." You think, Dalton?