The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

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What's the point of Holocaust denial? I know the deniers in the thread don't really care that much about death camps or gas chambers either way; you guys aren't diehard crematoria nerds or lampshade truthers in any other arena but this one. The thing you're all unwilling to say, cause it spoils the debate for you, is that you kinda hate Jews, and the state of Israel. You really don't like them, although I daresay most of you know very little about Jews. This is why you don't want the Holocaust to be true, despite ample evidence that it did happen. All the reasons I've heard so far to explain why the Holocaust did not happen reference events that happened after the Holocaust; the formation of Israel, the annoying liberal media, the (((globalist))) conspiracy. It's like you think the Jews made up the Holocaust to win arguments on Twitter. When you're a particular denier gets to you, you accuse them of being paid shills for a shadow illuminati.

Do you understand how ridiculous you sound?

There's a few kinds of Holocaust denier: the fake academic (see Mattogno et al, David Irving, etc.) who decide to break into fame by espousing Holocaust Denialism because it granted them an audience willing to buy everything they write about that subject. Mattogno is interesting, he publishes exclusively to the genre; he's used his life's talent to twist excerpts of historical documents out of context, and sometimes just straight-up lie, in order to support the fairy tale of "resettlement to the East". That's where Olonzo finds chestnuts like "Auschwitz had great healthcare". These careercows formed a little vanity publishing circle with the driest, most academic names they could think of in the hopes of fooling people on the fence that this was a genuine, peer-reviewed historical quarterly. Perhaps they believe what they write, but they are also clearly genre writing for an audience of Holocaust deniers. Their motivation to denying the Holocaust is mostly financial. This sort numbers a few dozen.

The next layer is the Dylann Roofs, who read this crap and decide that the Jews ruined everything. This demographic of Holocaust denier is the kind of guy who would march around Charlottesville with a tiki torch yelling about the Great Replacement. These guys can be hazardous because they're usually young and young men will take risks older men do not. They actually believe a nationalist, conformist government that outlaws communism and homosexuality would be a good thing, and the only reason they can't have it is because of the whiny liberal Jews crying about "muh Holocaust". Their motivation to deny the Holocaust is emotional and political; they want it not to exist so it can't have happened. It's exactly like "Stop the Steal"; they didn't like the election result so they were willing to storm the fucking congress building. These guys are weens, they're shitposters, and some of them are unbelievably jaded and indifferent. This kind numbers a few hundred to a few thousand.

The last component is the one most represented in this thread, which is the "your uncle from Peoria" types who keep a lid on it in public and then quietly play the Axis side in World of Tanks. They're not motherfuckers, they're not bad people (I don't think much of anyone is "bad people") but they just feel like Hitler and Germany is getting an unfair share of guilt and blame. Surely the Holocaust couldn't have been all that bad; because the accepted history is so unbelievably awful, maybe the Jews are just exaggerating things a bit. Surely the truth lies somewhere in the middle. To them, denial is an intellectual exercise, like a hobby. You can read the books and things from the first part and "decide for oneself" what happened in Auschwitz. This sort is exceedingly common, to the point that I end up running into them at the Cradle and don't figure it out 'til I'm two drinks in. I want to believe they're harmless.


I don't hate Jews actually. In fact I recognise their talents, and even respect their actions in the middle east as what they are - a search for national self determination. I'd even be happy for a peace accord and a return even to 67 borders rather than the 48 borders.

Their interests and influence is extensive in the west obviously. I would rather they helped us in the west preserve our lands, and think that in the end, they may well do so.
 
Yes pointing out obvious lies that deny basic reality is exactly like other lies, good job Rabbi.

If the only molehill you can invent is an obvious fabrication, then where are the other awful things they've done? You have to have a molehill to make a mountain of. Not just endless repetition of your idiocy.

Doing awful shit in a time when literally everyone is doing awful shit doesnt make you guilty of anything but being singled out. Not that you ever acknowledge that.

How hard do I have to read before I start finding things that aren't there, exactly? Why can you never do anything but waste people's time?

People are convicted of holocaust denial which is entirely made up of fictional accounts that have no bearing. So you just do your usual pilpul.

"Guys these lies are just honest mistakes BUT they still add up!"

Pressac in fact was an attempt to turn the allegations into a technically backed reality when it became clear that revisionists were finding problems with the narrative.

Pressac himself was no historian by background. He was a pharmacist.
 
Clear vague interpretation of text
ummm it says "In the Minsk-Land area, the Jewry was completely exterminated, without endangering the allocation of labor in any way"

this coming from the governor of Belarus, who then talks about eliminating the worker Jews after the army is done with them

without reference to all other documents for a surreptitious purpose.
interestingly there are no german documents about deported Jews being resettled during this period, but there are many hundreds of documents that describe mass slaughter of the Jews already in the East
 
No it's not entirely possible. Its tendenciously possible. Is that fair?
No, multiple witnesses say they saw Ilse Koch either choose specific tattooed prisoners to be killed, or had some kind of lamp made of skin. It is entirely possible she did make human lampshades.

But without further evidence, we cannot say with certainty that she did make lampshades out of skin.

Like, both of us have the same end goal here. Neither of us believe that anyone can say with certainty that Ilse Koch made lampshades out of human skin. It's just a slight difference.
You seem to think that there is a 0% chance of Ilse Koch making human lampshades. I think that's dumb. There definitely is a chance she did make human lampshades.
I think it's like 1%, or 0.5%. Tiny chance that she did, but too small for me to consider as actually happening.
 
Yes it does, if you constantly claim things that didn't happen add up to something that did happen. You are attempting to fabricate a narrative that doesn't exist using proof that doesn't exist. Which is exactly the thing we are saying the holocaust is. Just because 20 people say they saw something happen doesn't mean it happened.

You give the witnesses the benefit of the doubt because you have ideological blinders on. You should instead reject their claims immediately because they have no substantiation. Basic thought is extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
You are attempting to fabricate a narrative that doesn't exist using proof that doesn't exist.

I literally said multiple times that the lampshades probably did not exist, and therefore cannot be used in judging the holocaust. What are you saying?

Just because 20 people say they saw something happen doesn't mean it happened.

Yea I know you doofus. That's why I don't believe human lampshades were made (with 99% certainty). DNA evidence shows that many lampshades were either goat skin or cellulose.

You should instead reject their claims immediately because they have no substantiation.

That's so stupid. Every witness and claim should be given some sort of consideration. How much consideration is dependent on how many people claim it and how much backing the claim has (100 people saying I murdered someone in the street is given more credence than 1 person saying I murdered someone in my basement).

In the case of Ilse Koch, the witnesses testified that she turned people into lampshades, but without further evidence she was found not guilty on that mark.

Basic thought is extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Did you read anything I wrote??? I agree! Extraordinary claims, liking turning people into lampshades, requires heavy evidence. That is why I think Ilse Koch deserved to be found not guilty on that charge. Without extra evidence, like the lampshades themselves, we cannot say with certainty that she actually turned people to lampshades.


Therefore, we cannot use the claims that Ilse Koch turned people into lampshades in our interpretation of the holocaust. There is just not enough evidence suggesting she actually did it. She could have, but we cannot prove it. Do you agree with this?
 
You really showed me, "Mr Moon 1488". Time to go rethink my whole life again.

ETA: Oh no I was mocked by an elder of the Kiwi Farms. Am I supposed to apologize or something?
> Am I supposed to apologize or something?
You're supposed to take your meds, but it seems the ship has already sailed on that one.
 
I don't hate Jews actually. In fact I recognise their talents, and even respect their actions in the middle east as what they are - a search for national self determination. I'd even be happy for a peace accord and a return even to 67 borders rather than the 48 borders.
My view on Israel is, if they can defend it they can keep it. There's a lot of foreign aid...that's part of their strategy though. With or without that aid, Israel wishing to exist is fine by me. I would be interested to see how long they would last without aid. Longer than people would think I bet.

Who knows, maybe that will happen one day. Every tourist in this thread will make aliyah and defend their homeland. And all Black people are safely returned to Afrika, safe from the grasp of the evil cracker.
 
Doing awful shit in a time when literally everyone is doing awful shit doesnt make you guilty of anything but being singled out. Not that you ever acknowledge that.
This is a common denialist slight of hand. World War 2 has a clear bad guy; its a war of aggression started by Germany, and they lost. You’re trying to pretend that Germanys situation in 1942 was as morally ambiguous as it was in 1919 @ the treaty of Versailles, when it isn't.

Hitler started a state of total war in Europe and then ordered Himmler to take all the Jewish prisoners and kill them. The other comparable war crime in WWII was Japanese Unit 731, which killed half a million people - 9% of the Holocausts efficiency.

In Goebbel’s own words:
The Führer once again expressed his determination to clean up the Jews in Europe pitilessly. There must be no squeamish sentimentalism about it. The Jews have deserved the catastrophe that has now overtaken them. Their destruction will go hand in hand with the destruction of our enemies. We must hasten this process with cold ruthlessness.
A judgment is being visited upon the Jews that, while barbaric, is fully deserved by them. The prophecy which the Führer made about them for having brought on a new world war is beginning to come true in a most terrible manner. One must not be sentimental in these matters. If we did not fight the Jews, they would destroy us. It's a life-and-death struggle between the Aryan race and the Jewish bacillus.
You make a lot of noise about the fact that you oppose the Jews. Isn’t anti-Semitism outdated in the twentieth century? Isn’t the Jew a human being like everyone else? Aren’t there decent Jews? Isn’t it bad that we 60 million fear 2 million Jews?”
“You miss the point. Try to think logically:
1. If we were only anti-Semites, we would be out-of-place in the twentieth century. However, we are also socialists. For us, the two go together. Socialism, the freedom of the German proletariat and thereby of the German nation, can only be achieved against the Jews. Since we want Germany’s freedom, or socialism, we are anti-Semites.
2. Sure, the Jew is also a human being. None of us has every doubted that. But a flea is also an animal, — albeit an unpleasant one. Since a flea is not a pleasant animal, we have no duty to defend and protect it, to be of service to it so that it can bite and torment and torture us. Rather, our duty is to make it harmless.
The same is true of the Jew.
3. Sure, there are decent (weiße) Jews. More of them very day. That however, is not evidence for the Jews, but rather it is evidence against them. The fact that one calls scoundrels among us decent ‘Jews’ is proof that to be Jewish carries a stigma, else one would call deceitful Jews ‘decent (gelbe) Christians.’ The fact that there are so many decent Jews proves that the destructive Jewish spirit has already infected wide circles of our people. It is encouragement for us to carry on the battle against the Jewish world plague wherever possible.
4. It is a bad sign for you, not for us, that 60 million fear 2 million Jews. We do not fear these 2 million Jews, but rather we fight against them. You, however, are too much of a coward to join this battle, and behave like a cat on a hot stove.
If these 60 million fought the Jews as we do, they would have nothing more to fear. It would be the Jews’ turn to fear.”
 
I don't hate Jews actually. In fact I recognise their talents, and even respect their actions in the middle east as what they are - a search for national self determination. I'd even be happy for a peace accord and a return even to 67 borders rather than the 48 borders.

Their interests and influence is extensive in the west obviously. I would rather they helped us in the west preserve our lands, and think that in the end, they may well do so.
You sure you don't hate the Jews? You called me a "sabbatean crypto jew" as an insult the other day. And you wrote this when I brought up the indignities of the Holocaust:
(I see you edited that last one to remove the Hitler meme image that was attached. Thank you.)

When you say these things it gives me a distinct impression that you're not a big fan of Jews.

ETA:

Why do you want to be a Nazi?
 
I literally said multiple times that the lampshades probably did not exist, and therefore cannot be used in judging the holocaust. What are you saying?
You said they were unlikely, not almost impossible. This is your clear bias on display. There's been only one person I know who actually made things of human skin, Ed gein, and he was American. Does that make it .5 or 1% likely that Americans would make people into lampshades?
That's so stupid. Every witness and claim should be given some sort of consideration. How much consideration is dependent on how many people claim it and how much backing the claim has (100 people saying I murdered someone in the street is given more credence than 1 person saying I murdered someone in my basement).
No they shouldn't, if you tell me you saw Bigfoot or a Unicorn, you better be showing me photos or a skull otherwise I think you are an idiot. People forget jews have the highest rates of schizophrenia on earth.
Did you read anything I wrote??? I agree! Extraordinary claims, liking turning people into lampshades, requires heavy evidence. That is why I think Ilse Koch deserved to be found not guilty on that charge. Without extra evidence, like the lampshades themselves, we cannot say with certainty that she actually turned people to lampshades.
You act like there is a possibility, just because.
Therefore, we cannot use the claims that Ilse Koch turned people into lampshades in our interpretation of the holocaust. There is just not enough evidence suggesting she actually did it. She could have, but we cannot prove it. Do you agree with this?
No she couldn't.
This is a common denialist slight of hand. World War 2 has a clear bad guy; its a war of aggression started by Germany, and they lost. You’re trying to pretend that Germanys situation in 1942 was as morally ambiguous as it was in 1919 @ the treaty of Versailles, when it isn't.
Lmao hey look its the "and Hitler came to power for no reason at all" meme.
Hitler started a state of total war in Europe and then ordered Himmler to take all the Jewish prisoners and kill them. The other comparable war crime in WWII was Japanese Unit 731, which killed half a million people - 9% of the Holocausts efficiency.
What about the intentional starvation of India by the UK? What about the Soviets? Just another handwave away.
You sure you don't hate the Jews? You called me a "sabbatean crypto jew" as an insult the other day. And you wrote this when I brought up the indignities of the Holocaust:
I called you a cryptojew, since you lie about being a Christian.
When you say these things it gives me a distinct impression that you're not a big fan of Jews.
Why would you be? Everywhere they go they spread misery. Just look at this thread, full of miserable idiots and constant lies.
 
You said they were unlikely, not almost impossible. This is your clear bias on display. There's been only one person I know who actually made things of human skin, Ed gein, and he was American. Does that make it .5 or 1% likely that Americans would make people into lampshades?
This isn't bias? Multiple people claim she turned people into lamps, the possibility is there. It's up to you to show it has a literal 0% chance considering multiple people claimed it existed.
No they shouldn't, if you tell me you saw Bigfoot or a Unicorn, you better be showing me photos or a skull otherwise I think you are an idiot. People forget jews have the highest rates of schizophrenia on earth.
The witnesses weren't all Jews you numb nut. And I literally said you should have more proof.
You act like there is a possibility, just because.

No she couldn't.
Yea, she could have. Multiple people claimed she did it, the possibility exists. It doesn't matter since there isn't enough evidence to definitely prove it.
 
This isn't bias? Multiple people claim she turned people into lamps, the possibility is there. It's up to you to show it has a literal 0% chance considering multiple people claimed it existed.

The witnesses weren't all Jews you numb nut. And I literally said you should have more proof.

Yea, she could have. Multiple people claimed she did it, the possibility exists. It doesn't matter since there isn't enough evidence to definitely prove it.
Hey guys this guy is a baby rapist. He loves to rape babies. It doesn't matter how unlikely as long as enough people saw it, he has only a slight chance of not doing it. So let's see this baby rapist defend himself now!
 
Hey guys this guy is a baby rapist. He loves to rape babies. It doesn't matter how unlikely as long as enough people saw it, he has only a slight chance of not doing it. So let's see this baby rapist defend himself now!
If you don't have other proof, such as DNA evidence/ evidence of break-ins, etc etc, then the claim means nothing.
 
See he won't even deny that he rapes babies, he just says we have no proof. What a psychopath.
I'm supposed to be the baby rapist here? I thought you were just referencing some third-party.

But yea, if you don't have good evidence that I raped babies, then the claim means nothing. I didn't do it!
 
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