The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

[Stan]

What primary sources?

Hitler’s remarks on the Holocaust
Himmlers speech to his men in Posen
And the aerial photographs of Auschwitz in operation taken by an Allied spy-plane.

I linked them all in that side thread so stop playing dumb with me. You would have seen each of these postings at least twice by now.

Let’s get one thing straight: when I give up on you cause you’re playing games with me, crying my sources are fake and then changing the subject when I show you they are not, and post drivel to the thread about “Mengele was a caring doctor”, you haven’t proved anything but your own witlessness.

 

[Stan]

I didn't address your post here,

because you said some shit without so much as posting translations of invoices or whatever as evidence. I'm not gonna go hunt down revisionist arguments that you are too lazy or incompetent to substantiate for me. You can do that yourself, and once you do we can circle back


Ok so this is why I didn't go looking for the the "original" document for you. You wouldn't have accepted it based on it not fitting within the framework you apply, which is the bigger problem

I have one more question though about the "original" document thing. You said multiple times that no original had been produced. Why so confident about this?

According to Mr Olonzo, everything fact, photo, or document you have that’s inconvenient to his fantasy is fake. He’ll demand the original, and if you provide it, he will say that is also fake. Everything he dislikes is fake, how convenient! Basically Mattogno is the beginning and end of all Holocaust information ever to him.

ETA: he probably thinks the Protocols of Zion is real, though.

 

[mrolonzo]

I didn't address your post here,

because you said some shit without so much as posting translations of invoices or whatever as evidence. I'm not gonna go hunt down revisionist arguments that you are too lazy or incompetent to substantiate for me. You can do that yourself, and once you do we can circle back


Ok so this is why I didn't go looking for the the "original" document for you. You wouldn't have accepted it based on it not fitting within the framework you apply, which is the bigger problem

I have one more question though about the "original" document thing. You said multiple times that no original had been produced. Why so confident about this?

1. Ok, you just told us bring up documents that support revisionists. You know I like to post the revisionist work. Why just ignore it completely?

2. It's not a problem. It's what's been explained to you on codoh as I linked to.

3. I'm confident because senior revisionists say so. Happy to be wrong though.

4. You already admitted you are g10spana here on this thread. Are you just casually lying to me about stuff?

See below;

There's no evidence of the Germans shipping Jews en masse over front lines into Soviet held territory so yeah the 40k Jews that settled here (many after the war) are irrelevant

View attachment 2758090




I posted that lol. I'm gl0spana.

 

[mrolonzo]

According to Mr Olonzo, everything fact, photo, or document you have that’s inconvenient to his fantasy is fake. He’ll demand the original, and if you provide it, he will say that is also fake. Everything he dislikes is fake, how convenient! Basically Mattogno is the beginning and end of all Holocaust information ever to him.

ETA: he probably thinks the Protocols of Zion is real, though.

Why don't you just ask me what I think?

 

[Chugger]

You know I like to post the revisionist work. Why just ignore it completely?

You didn't post any work. You just said the Bischoff documents showed something and did not substantiate this in any way.

I'm confident because senior revisionists say so. Happy to be wrong though

What revisionists have said no original has ever been produced for the Kube document?

4. You already admitted you are g10spana here on this thread. Are you just casually lying to me about stuff?

no, I'm gl0spana. You misinterpret what I said on Codoh (where I am banned and was unable to continue the conversation)

 

[mrolonzo]

You didn't post any work. You just said the Bischoff documents showed something and did not substantiate this in any way.


What revisionists have said no original has ever been produced for the Kube document?


no, I'm gl0spana. You misinterpret what I said on Codoh (where I am banned and was unable to continue the conversation)

1. I didn't say I'd posted work. I simply referred to it. Why just ignore it? Lemme guess. You've never heard of this issue right?

2. Whitlock Porter

3. So you literally had a conversation on codoh about this issue on documents. But were banned. Why are you banned?

 

[Chugger]

I didn't say I'd posted work. I simply referred to it. Why just ignore it?

As I said, I'm not gonna go hunt down revisionist arguments that you are too lazy or incompetent to substantiate for me. You can do that yourself, and once you do we can circle back

Whitlock Porter

Souce? I'm curious. I assume you referenced his work before you confidently stated numerous times, that there was no original Kube letter

So you literally had a conversation on codoh about this issue on documents. But were banned. Why are you banned?

No idea. I was talking about generalplan ost and everything was fine and then the next day I couldn't log in

 

[Stan]

posting crap from Mattogno, Graf, or Kies as evidence the Holocaust didn’t happen is dishonest. Those authors only publish within their hug box (the Barnes Review and imprints) and basically have no work outside the fantasy realm of Holocaust denial.

Their tracts are measly and they only work if you don’t turn your head and consider everything else that happened during the Holocaust. Sometimes they just have to say “well, that person lied” or “that Nazi officer had to lie to get a lighter sentence” when there’s no evidence they did. So they just make up an alternative possibility that supports their preconceived notion of events.

Thats the opposite of what real “historians” do so I’m convinced these guys are fanfic writers

 

[Stabmaster Arson]

Those authors only publish within their hug box (the Barnes Review and imprints) and basically have no work outside the fantasy realm of Holocaust denial.

See, this is why I don't even try in this thread. Anything that doesn't agree with you is just dimsissed with "a bloo bloo bloo, these nazi sources don't count".
Don't @ me, faggot.

 

[Bonesjones]

photos and documents are in the album

https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/klarsfeld/Struthof/T001.shtml


Yeah I didn't read that. So they ask Jews to get into a huge cage near a lake, then push it in using heavy machinery? That's less elaborate than gassing people in an an enclosed space? you can literally create a gas chamber by running your car in your garage with the doors closed.

zyklon b 's main ingredient is HCN, which has been used in gas chambers for prisoner executions in the US

Taking the time to read your stupid link, hey look every single page says the people there had no idea what they were talking about and what they described was impossible, but it's totally just a cover story and it really means this. if this is your smoking gun proof of gas chambers existing, then you've lost the war. The worst they describe is people being used as test subjects for anti gas medicine. Which would also show why they were well treated in return.

Also jews pretending race science is a complete fabrication is hilarious considering their own DNA bottlenecks.

Also good try with your stupid emotional appeals of showing corpses. As if they will sway anyone's opinion but instead show your ludicrous inability to do anything.

 

[Bonesjones]

posting crap from Mattogno, Graf, or Kies as evidence the Holocaust didn’t happen is dishonest. Those authors only publish within their hug box (the Barnes Review and imprints) and basically have no work outside the fantasy realm of Holocaust denial.

Their tracts are measly and they only work if you don’t turn your head and consider everything else that happened during the Holocaust. Sometimes they just have to say “well, that person lied” or “that Nazi officer had to lie to get a lighter sentence” when there’s no evidence they did. So they just make up an alternative possibility that supports their preconceived notion of events.

Thats the opposite of what real “historians” do so I’m convinced these guys are fanfic writers

"If holocaust denial is so real why won't the jews just admit it" tier post.

 

[Chugger]

fanfic writers

yes it's [poorly conceived] fanfic and alternate history

Taking the time to read your stupid link, hey look every single page says the people there had no idea what they were talking about and what they described was impossible, but it's totally just a cover story and it really means this

I have no idea what you're talking about so give me some specific examples from the link

 

[Bonesjones]

yes it's [poorly conceived] fanfic and alternate history

I have no idea what you're talking about so give me some specific examples from the link

They literally spend the first few pages on how the guy who did the gassing described a process that was impossible. Jesus you are fucking dense.

Also bodies stored at 135 degrees Fahrenheit? Christ.

 

[mrolonzo]

As I said, I'm not gonna go hunt down revisionist arguments that you are too lazy or incompetent to substantiate for me. You can do that yourself, and once you do we can circle back


Souce? I'm curious. I assume you referenced his work before you confidently stated numerous times, that there was no original Kube letter


No idea. I was talking about generalplan ost and everything was fine and then the next day I couldn't log in

1. I just assumed you already knew the problems since you are , after all, better than us flat earthers etc. Are you willing to discuss this issue now? You won't cry if I mention Mattogno?

2. I read it in passing. No I didn't do any background checking. Happy to be wrong.

3. You had the conversation about documents and the eastern front over a year ago. You were banned only recently correct?

4. Is it because everyone keeps thinking you're different people? Chugger, Matthew Cockerill, g10spana. Who is History Speaks? Is that a different dude?

 

[Aves]

She accused of false things but no one 'made anything up'.....

Dude, that's just the law don't ya know?!

As I said before, the reason for the accusation could have been for numerous reasons.

The witnesses could have been intentionally lying, or they actually saw lampshades made of some kind of skin, but Ilse Koch decided to just use goat skin. Many witnesses say that they say Koch kill specific prisoners for their tattoos, and other witnesses say they saw lampshades made of skin with tattoos.

And they weren't "lying." It's entirely possible that Koch DID turn people into lampshades. But since courts require evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, she was found not guilty.

Whether or not she turned people into lampshades has no effect on the holocaust.

 

[mrolonzo]

They literally spend the first few pages on how the guy who did the gassing described a process that was impossible. Jesus you are fucking dense.

Also bodies stored at 135 degrees Fahrenheit? Christ.

I think they gloss over Kramer and therefore don't object when Mattogno rejects his statements.

The impossibility of the events are not the issue for peddlers because the truth is secondary to the ultimate political outcome.

As I said before, the reason for the accusation could have been for numerous reasons.

The witnesses could have been intentionally lying, or they actually saw lampshades made of some kind of skin, but Ilse Koch decided to just use goat skin. Many witnesses say that they say Koch kill specific prisoners for their tattoos, and other witnesses say they saw lampshades made of skin with tattoos.

And they weren't "lying." It's entirely possible that Koch DID turn people into lampshades. But since courts require evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, she was found not guilty.

Whether or not she turned people into lampshades has no effect on the holocaust.

Is it possible that Ilse Koch could turn people into lampshades in the same way I can accuse you of anything I wanted?

Look I get what you're trying to argue. You're an ok guy really.

 

[Aves]

Is it possible that Ilse Koch could turn people into lampshades in the same way I can accuse you of anything I wanted?

Look I get what you're trying to argue. You're an ok guy really.

You can accuse me of anything, I guess?

But to prove something happened, you need a lot of evidence that said thing existed. This is just how any holocaust belief works.

Lampshades have very little evidence supporting it's existence, so we should say "it probably didn't exist." It's that simple.

The witnesses could be right, but without further evidence suggesting its existence, we cannot say = "Ilse Koch turned people into lampshades'' with high certainty

It's why we say there were gas chamber killings, but not electric floors at belzec (or treblinka?). There is a lot of evidence suggesting gas chambers were used for killing, but little evidence suggesting electric floors killed anyone, or even existed in the first place.

 

[Chugger]

They literally spend the first few pages on how the guy who did the gassing described a process that was impossible. Jesus you are fucking dense.

This isn't particularly compelling evidence he was instructed to say they were gassed. We can agree to disagree on this point I guess.

Also bodies stored at 135 degrees Fahrenheit? Christ.

If it it says this I assume it is a typo. The bodies found were definitely preserved, and probably not at 135 degrees, which would require constant heating

You had the conversation about documents and the eastern front over a year ago. You were banned only recently correct?

Yup. I wasn't permitted to continue my discussion in that other thread and I don't remember the reason given

Is it because everyone keeps thinking you're different people? Chugger, Matthew Cockerill, g10spana. Who is History Speaks? Is that a different dude?

I'm just Gl0spana and never said anything different

I just assumed you already knew the problems since you are , after all, better than us flat earthers etc. Are you willing to discuss this issue now? You won't cry if I mention Mattogno?

substantiate and we'll circle back to it as I've told you

I read it in passing. No I didn't do any background checking. Happy to be wrong.

Yes you are wrong, the document exists. https://phdn.org/histgen/einsatzgruppen-shoah-par-balles/kubelohse310742facsimile.html#page1

You do a disservice to your movement and yourself by saying things that are wrong. You should be more careful.

But moving back to this document, Mattogno doesn't say it is fake. he doesn't say extermination/elimination/liquidation of all non-working Jews in the area are code words for resettlement. he says they were massacred. what do you make of this?

 

[Aves]

Zo.

Since we aren't making any ground on this debate, let me try something different. I'm going to make a statement below, you tell me if you agree or disagree on this statement regarding human lampshades.

"It is entirely possible that Ilse Koch ordered the killing of prisoners and turned them into lampshades. Many witnesses attest to this. However, due to a lack of evidence, such as the fact that no human skin was found on these lampshades, we cannot say with certainty that lampshades made out of human skin were made for Ilse Koch or anyone else."

Yes or no, do you agree with what I am saying above? This is what I have been trying to say during our debate. If you agree, then we can just stop our debate.

 

[Bonesjones]

As I said before, the reason for the accusation could have been for numerous reasons.

The witnesses could have been intentionally lying, or they actually saw lampshades made of some kind of skin, but Ilse Koch decided to just use goat skin. Many witnesses say that they say Koch kill specific prisoners for their tattoos, and other witnesses say they saw lampshades made of skin with tattoos.

And they weren't "lying." It's entirely possible that Koch DID turn people into lampshades. But since courts require evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, she was found not guilty.

Whether or not she turned people into lampshades has no effect on the holocaust.

Yes it does, if you constantly claim things that didn't happen add up to something that did happen. You are attempting to fabricate a narrative that doesn't exist using proof that doesn't exist. Which is exactly the thing we are saying the holocaust is. Just because 20 people say they saw something happen doesn't mean it happened.

You can accuse me of anything, I guess?

But to prove something happened, you need a lot of evidence that said thing existed. This is just how any holocaust belief works.

Lampshades have very little evidence supporting it's existence, so we should say "it probably didn't exist." It's that simple.

The witnesses could be right, but without further evidence suggesting its existence, we cannot say = "Ilse Koch turned people into lampshades'' with high certainty

It's why we say there were gas chamber killings, but not electric floors at belzec (or treblinka?). There is a lot of evidence suggesting gas chambers were used for killing, but little evidence suggesting electric floors killed anyone, or even existed in the first place.

You give the witnesses the benefit of the doubt because you have ideological blinders on. You should instead reject their claims immediately because they have no substantiation. Basic thought is extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

This isn't particularly compelling evidence he was instructed to say they were gassed. We can agree to disagree on this point I guess.

We can't agree to disagree, you and your faggot friends said it was proof they definitely gassed jews. When your own link denies any factual evidence, it proves you are a fucking idiot. They literally say dead bodies are normally no concern but here they definitely mean something sinister. Fucking retard.

If it it says this I assume it is a typo. The bodies found were definitely preserved, and probably not at 135 degrees, which would require constant heating

So its ok to use sloppy evidence to convict people now? Anyone claiming to preserve bodies at 135 degrees is a fucking idiot and a liar. A medium rare steak is cooked to 135 degrees btw, since you don't know anything.

"It is entirely possible that Ilse Koch ordered the killing of prisoners and turned them into lampshades. Many witnesses attest to this. However, due to a lack of evidence, such as the fact that no human skin was found on these lampshades, we cannot say with certainty that lampshades made out of human skin were made for Ilse Koch or anyone else."

They are lying or repeating lies. That's it.