The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

[Chugger]

Turn the noise down on each expression. Very limited smell, much smaller amounts of people going through, commotion, sounds of and sights of trains certainly. That's about it.

this description is not consistent with an extermination camp where almost 1 million were killed

 

[Bonesjones]

this description is not consistent with an extermination camp where almost 1 million were killed

"Guys these facts don't fit my narrative, they must be lies" part 6969

 

[mrolonzo]

this description is not consistent with an extermination camp where almost 1 million were killed

You're completely correct about that.

 

[Chugger]

You're completely correct about that.

So as you know during the war there were wild rumors about Treblinka being a place where many hundreds of thousands were being killed.

eg this diary note from Wilm Hosenfeld, a German officer stationed in the General Government

6. September 1942: The place is called Treblinka, in the east of the General Government. There the wagons are unloaded, many are already dead, the whole area is sealed by walls, the cars enter there and are unloaded. The women and children, in their thousands, must undress, are herded into a mobile barracks and gassed there. This has now been going on for long. From all parts of Poland they are gathering the unfortunate people, a part of them are killed right on site because there is not enough loading capacity available. When there are too many of them, they are transported away. A terrible stench of corpses lies over the whole area.

Since, in your view, the locals in the area saw only a small camp where relatively few Jews were sent, there was very little smell, and they could see a steady flow of Jews leaving the camp (as many as came in), do you think the locals believed these rumors about mass extermination were true?

 

[mrolonzo]

So as you know during the war there were wild rumors about Treblinka being a place where many hundreds of thousands were being killed.

eg this diary note from Wilm Hosenfeld, a German officer stationed in the General Government



Since, in your view, the locals in the area saw only a small camp where relatively few Jews were sent, there was very little smell, and they could see a steady flow of Jews leaving the camp (as many as came in), do you think the locals believed these rumors about mass extermination were true?

Yes wild rumour is a feature and is used as a weapon in all conflict. Likely some would turn small phenomena into big events.

 

[Chugger]

Yes wild rumour is a feature and is used as a weapon in all conflict. Likely some would turn small phenomena into big events.

So they would develop false memories of enormous amounts of Jews entering the camp and an overwhelming stench of death emanating from the camp, and lose real memories of seeing Jews leaving Treblinka going east.

I can imagine this happening to a few people, but not all. Certainly if your view is correct, a substantial portion of the locals must have been confused by the rumors or completely doubted them, given what they actually saw 100% contradicted mass extermination (as you pointed out above)

 

[mrolonzo]

So they would develop false memories of enormous amounts of Jews entering the camp and an overwhelming stench of death emanating from the camp, and lose real memories of seeing Jews leaving Treblinka going east.

I can imagine this happening to a few people, but not all. Certainly if your view is correct, a substantial portion of the locals must have been confused by the rumors or completely doubted them, given what they actually saw 100% contradicted mass extermination (as you pointed out above)

Who even said they actually have real memories? They can even turn rumours into personal stories.

 

[Chugger]

Who even said they actually have real memories? They can even turn rumours into personal stories.

well I'd define a real memory as something that actually happened to you, eg you remember growing up in the town that you actually grew up in

as opposed to a false memory: you remember growing up in a completely different town than the one you grew up in

 

[Stan]

"Guys these facts don't fit my narrative, they must be lies" part 6969

Well, the facts don’t fit with somebody‘s narrative, but you’re wrong about whose. If you want to see someone knee deep in denial, consult a mirror.

Who even said they actually have real memories? They can even turn rumours into personal stories.

:/ your whole purpose in life would be made a lot easier if you could avoid talking like ‘Lil Hitler when you post.

 

[JohnDoe]

So they would develop false memories of enormous amounts of Jews entering the camp and an overwhelming stench of death emanating from the camp, and lose real memories of seeing Jews leaving Treblinka going east.

I already told you. I had family there and nobody ever mentioned any kind of overwhelming stench of death or whatever. Unless somebody died from typhus or had a heart attack or something. Dead people don't smell great apparently, but a bit of camphor was prized if you had to be around them.

Well, the facts don’t fit with somebody‘s narrative

Nice that you can finally admit you've been pushing a lie due to the brainwashing from your religion of hate. It's okay, though, Jesus has infinite reserves of mercy for all men. Just give up your lies, repent, and open your heart to salvation through Him.

 

[Stan]

Nice that you can finally admit you've been pushing a lie due to the brainwashing from your religion of hate. It's okay, though, Jesus has infinite reserves of mercy for all men. Just give up your lies, repent, and open your heart to salvation through Him.

You must have a defective sarcasm meter. You’re the one in bed with “Holocaust scholars” who lie to you, watching videos that torture the facts til they meet ur preconceived notion of the truth, and aligning yourself with odious and laughable views like “who says Jews have memories” “Buchenwald had great healthcare” and “Mengele was a caring typhus doctor”.

Matthew 7:5

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye;and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

 

[JohnDoe]

You’re the one in bed with “Holocaust scholars” who lie to you, watching videos that torture the facts til they meet ur preconceived notion of the truth

Hey buddy, I doubt your shift at Cinemark starts this early so why are you projecting so hard?

meet ur preconceived

Lol, lmao.

 

[Chugger]

I already told you. I had family there and nobody ever mentioned any kind of overwhelming stench of death or whatever. Unless somebody died from typhus or had a heart attack or something. Dead people don't smell great apparently, but a bit of camphor was prized if you had to be around them.

You had family that lived in close proximity to Treblinka during the war, and they talked to you about it? What village did they live in?

This is what I was saying-- do some investigative research. Getting direct testimony is probably out of the question, but certainly you can talk to children of people who were direct witnesses. I think it's reasonable to expect many would been told true stories about "transit camp" Treblinka.

This is the kind of positive evidence that is completely lacking from your side, so something like this would be huge for revisionism,

much better for your movement than trying to argue such a case against people that know their shit.

If you found a 90 year old Jew who said she was a 10 year old kid when resettled from Treblinka and grew up in the resettlement, or a 95 year old Eastern European who said he saw this resettlement, or a diary from someone living at the time referring to the existence of this resettlement, this would be the best evidence we have yet for the ridiculous "resettlement thesis", according to which millions of Jews were moved out of the camp system into some permanent resettlement.

Probably in 1990 after the fall of the USSR revisionists could have gone through the country doing investigative research, talking to locals about specific deportations, etc . a 20 year old in 1942 would be less than 70 in 1990 so they could have gotten great testimony from people showing Jewish resettlement or movement in areas unknown to orthodox history.

I should also point out that the thousands of Germans who claimed to witness holocaust events could also have been interviewed. Revisionists weren't even able to produce an anonymous account of the torture/threats/bribery they believe these people experienced.

Instead Mattogno and co simply delved through ex Soviet archives, finding evidence that was only useful to the other side (eg labor force reports at the Auschwitz krema)

 

[Stan]

Hey buddy, I doubt your shift at Cinemark starts this early so why are you projecting so hard?

Lol, lmao.

??? nonsense posting now are we
ETA: “no u” didn’t really work back on the playground, maybe stop trying it out here??

 

[Stan]

You had family that was in close proximity to Treblinka during the war, and they talked to you about it?

This is what I was saying--go there, do some investigative research. Getting direct testimony is probably out of the question, but certainly you will find children of people who were direct witnesses. I think it's reasonable to expect many would been told true stories about "transit camp" Treblinka.

This is the kind of positive evidence that is completely lacking from your side, so something like this would be huge for revisionism,

much better for your movement than trying to argue such a case against people that know their shit.

Probably in 1990 after the fall of the USSR revisionists could have gone through the country doing investigative research, talking to locals about specific deportations, etc . a 20 year old in 1942 would be less than 70 in 1990 so they could have gotten great testimony from people showing Jewish resettlement or movement in areas unknown to orthodox history.

I should also point out that the thousands of Germans who claimed to witness holocaust events could also have been interviewed. Revisionists weren't even able to produce an anonymous account of the torture/threats/bribery they believe these people experienced.

Instead Mattogno and co simply delved through ex Soviet archives, finding evidence that was only useful to the other side (eg labor force reports at the Auschwitz krema)

All of this was done back when survivors, SS officers, people whose farms abutted the camps, etc. were all alive. Also there are Soviet and American photos, interviews, communications back to their respective sides after the war, which are now declassified. People ur parents age have likely met at least one survivor who still had a camp-registration tattoo number on their arm.

Problem is none of these accounts suit our brave crusaders’ credo; which is that the Holocaust didn’t happen and the Nazis are nice guys who respectfully *checks notes* dispossessed the Jews, crammed them into ghettos, and then shipped them to Odessa, after which they all mysteriously disappeared.

Mattogno’s main problem is that he wants to stake out a contrarian position in a field he knows nothing about because he knows there’s an audience for vaguely “respectable” Holocaust denialist literature. His main strengths are misrepresenting himself to look respectable and misrepresenting the facts as they are to make it seem like the Holocaust is a (((globalist conspiracy.))) I have no idea why you’d want to read a “scholar” who’s already lied to you twice just to get you to pick up his stupid pamphlets.

ETA: my partner says it’s almost inevitable for denialists to get vocal after any genocide hits the century mark. I suppose these guys just have a particularly uphill battle cause of the volume of historical recording we have regarding this specific genocide

 

[mrolonzo]

All of this was done back when survivors, SS officers, people whose farms abutted the camps, etc. were all alive. Also there are Soviet and American photos, interviews, communications back to their respective sides after the war, which are now declassified. People ur parents age have likely met at least one survivor who still had a camp-registration tattoo number on their arm.

Problem is none of these accounts suit our brave crusaders’ credo; which is that the Holocaust didn’t happen and the Nazis are nice guys who respectfully *checks notes* dispossessed the Jews, crammed them into ghettos, and then shipped them to Odessa, after which they all mysteriously disappeared.

Mattogno’s main problem is that he wants to stake out a contrarian position in a field he knows nothing about because he knows there’s an audience for vaguely “respectable” Holocaust denialist literature. His main strengths are misrepresenting himself to look respectable and misrepresenting the facts as they are to make it seem like the Holocaust is a (((globalist conspiracy.))) I have no idea why you’d want to read a “scholar” who’s already lied to you twice just to get you to pick up his stupid pamphlets.

ETA: my partner says it’s almost inevitable for denialists to get vocal after any genocide hits the century mark. I suppose these guys just have a particularly uphill battle cause of the volume of historical recording we have regarding this specific genocide

Are you telling us Mattogno knows nothing about the holocaust and that revisionists are due to start getting vocal in the year 2045?

well I'd define a real memory as something that actually happened to you, eg you remember growing up in the town that you actually grew up in

as opposed to a false memory: you remember growing up in a completely different town than the one you grew up in

Is that it? Simply true or false memories about what towns they grew up in? Would you honestly consider yourself worldly wise or are you a young man of limited experience of humanity?

 

[Chugger]

Is that it? Simply true or false memories about what towns they grew up in?

Yeah, another example (in your universe) of a true memory would be the locals around the "transit camp" Treblinka seeing train after train after train after train of non-working Jews happily going east . Perhaps @JohnDoe 's relatives also remember something here, though I have to say that there's no prior evidence of this, so your relative's testimony would be the first of its kind.

Furthermore, there's no evidence of 'deportees' leaving any of the Reinhard camps, or evidence of them being moved into or through the eastern territories. In your universe, probably tens or hundreds of thousands of people saw them (depending on how deep into Russia they were taken), but not a single witness has publicly spoken about this.

 

[JohnDoe]

You had family that lived in close proximity to Treblinka during the war, and they talked to you about it? What village did they live in?

Close proximity? My grandmother's side resettled through Treblinka and my grandfather's side worked in the camp. It's all firsthand.

 

[Chugger]

my grandfather's side worked in the camp

he worked in treblinka ii?

 

[Shinzo Abe’s Ghost]

he worked in treblinka ii?

He worked at the watchtower and liked to doodle German shepherds.

I don’t even care about this thread, this one comment is the funniest shit ever.