The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

[JohnDoe]

He worked at the watchtower and liked to doodle German shepherds.

I've powerleveled enough, I'm not going to dox his rank and position.

 

[mrolonzo]

Yeah, another example (in your universe) of a true memory would be the locals around the "transit camp" Treblinka seeing train after train after train after train of non-working Jews happily going east . Perhaps @JohnDoe 's relatives also remember something here, though I have to say that there's no prior evidence of this, so your relative's testimony would be the first of its kind.

Furthermore, there's no evidence of 'deportees' leaving any of the Reinhard camps, or evidence of them being moved into or through the eastern territories. In your universe, probably tens or hundreds of thousands of people saw them (depending on how deep into Russia they were taken), but not a single witness has publicly spoken about this.

So these lines have numerous trains and you're expecting people to be watching trains, counting the supply trains, arms trains and people trains? Are there other sources of information?

 

[Shinzo Abe’s Ghost]

So these lines have numerous trains and you're expecting people to be watching trains, counting the supply trains, arms trains and people trains? Are there other sources of information?

Everything this guy says is a meme!

 

[Chugger]

I've powerleveled enough, I'm not going to dox his rank and position.

if I was a revisionist I'd be pretty pissed at you. you have the smoking gun witness testimony, the first of its kind. Of the thousands that worked in these places, not a single person ever denied they were extermination centers.

Maybe you can change history, but kiwifarms stands in the way

So these lines have numerous trains and you're expecting people to be watching trains, counting the supply trains, arms trains and people trains? Are there other sources of information?

Yeah there's going to be a lot of interaction with locals considering the trains had to stop frequently, the passengers needed to be resupplied / or beg for food and water. You think the Nazis were princes so probably they let the Jews out to stretch their legs and so forth.

There's plenty of witness reports and documentation of Jews heading to the Reinhard camps.

https://www.ns-archiv.de/verfolgung/polen/rawaruska/umsiedlung.php (right click google translate)

 

[mrolonzo]

if I was a revisionist I'd be pretty pissed at you. you have the smoking gun witness testimony, the first of its kind. Of the thousands that worked in these places, not a single person ever denied they were extermination centers.

Maybe you can change history, but kiwifarms stands in the way


Yeah there's going to be a lot of interaction with locals considering the trains had to stop frequently, the passengers needed to be resupplied / or beg for food and water. You think the Nazis were princes so probably they let the Jews out to stretch their legs and so forth.

There's plenty of witness reports and documentation of Jews heading to the Reinhard camps.

https://www.ns-archiv.de/verfolgung/polen/rawaruska/umsiedlung.php (right click google translate)

Isn't this just a cope where instead of fighting it out over Auschwitz where the documentary evidence is clear you move the question to the east where its not so clear and you can better make a vague case there?

 

[JohnDoe]

Isn't this just a cope where instead of fighting it out over Auschwitz where the documentary evidence is clear you move the question to the east where its not so clear and you can better make a vague case there?

You keep forgetting, even though they advanced a theory (that millions of Jews were factory murdered for no reason (except that Germans/White people are evil )in gas chambers and cremated so totally and then concealed so skillfully that it's impossible to prove anything happened with any forensic evidence at all) the burden is on everyone else to either prove a negative or prove some convoluted alternative theory (MOON RESETTLEMENT!) otherwise their concocted delusion is true. Once you realize the base assumption involves an inversion of the burden of proof it all makes sense.

 

[Bonesjones]

Also the most ardent holocaust defenders are all exceptionally retarded college students for no reason in particular.

 

[Chugger]

the burden is on everyone else to either prove a negative or prove some convoluted alternative theory (MOON RESETTLEMENT!

No the burden is on you to show the alternate hypothesis to holocaust is more evidenced than 'moon resettlement' or 'geothermal resettlement', which is a theory I've floated here b4 that the Jews were brought underground and have made a home near some volcanic vents

 

[Bonesjones]

No the burden is on you to show the alternate hypothesis to holocaust is more evidenced than 'moon resettlement' or 'geothermal resettlement', which is a theory I've floated here b4 that the Jews were brought underground and have made a home near some volcanic vents

I've showed your hypothesis is physically impossible, so let's see your mountain of evidence to prove it is, you dumb nigger.

 

[mrolonzo]

No the burden is on you to show the alternate hypothesis to holocaust is more evidenced than 'moon resettlement' or 'geothermal resettlement', which is a theory I've floated here b4 that the Jews were brought underground and have made a home near some volcanic vents

Why would the burden of proof be on us? Was it proven in the first place? How ? When?

Is this event preceded by other camp based industrial gassings? Is there technical back up?

You seem to implying that the idea that a camp would not just massacre people it had taken trouble to collect house feed and treat is somehow extraordinary so maybe this thing happens alot?

 

[Chugger]

Is this event preceded by other camp based industrial gassings?

Yes I'm glad you asked. The Germans killed 90 thousand prior, mostly their own citizens and by gas in the T4 program

And later veterans of the T4 program staffed the Reinhard camps and Sonderkommando Lange went to Chelmno (Lange was the first commandant of Chelmno)

However there is no precedent for millions of people completely disappearing in terms of paper trail and witness testimony.

Why would the burden of proof be on us?

for the same reason as if you were making any other outrageous claim, eg the missing Jews were taken to the moon by Nazi UFOS

I've showed your hypothesis is physically impossible

But what if you haven't

 

[mgc]

Perhaps of interest - David Irving (appears to) completely repudiate Holocaust denial, including acknowledging exterminations ot Auschwitz.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyav1uh0KqA

 

[mrolonzo]

Yes I'm glad you asked. The Germans killed 90 thousand prior, mostly their own citizens and by gas in the T4 program

View attachment 3523647

And later veterans of the T4 program staffed the Reinhard camps and Sonderkommando Lange went to Chelmno (Lange was the first commandant of Chelmno)

However there is no precedent for millions of people completely disappearing in terms of paper trail and witness testimony.


for the same reason as if you were making any other outrageous claim, eg the missing Jews were taken to the moon by Nazi UFOS


But what if you haven't

Yes but that's euthanasia. It was a style of the time. The holocaust is industrial murder for no good reason.

So no. It has no previous pattern in history yet the holocaust is not an outrageous claim?

 

[Bonesjones]

But what if you haven't

I know you live in a land of fairy tales but we live in the real world. So keep retarded hypotheticals to yourself.

 

[JohnDoe]

for the same reason as if you were making any other outrageous claim,

Nobody (at least I'm not) is making any outrageous claim, we're just asking for proof of your claim. You keep insisting that we prove MOON RESETTLEMENT! but A) Nobody is claiming that and B) Any other claim potentially made is disconnected from other claims, all claims must be proved on their own merits.

 

[mgc]

I think it is time to reiterate the premises of one of the basic arguments against denial, which may help explain why resettlement is relevant. As a (much-needed) intellectual exercise, I will let you deniers fill in the conclusion for yourselves.

1) Millions of Jews disappeared in the Nazi camp system.

2) This requires an explanation, since millions of people do not disappear.

3) The mainstream has an explanation with evidence (they disappeared because they were killed)

4) The revisionists have an explanation with no evidence (the disappeared Jews were sent out of the camp system and resettled resettled).

5) When considering theories to explain a phenomenon, a theory supported by evidence is presumpatively superior to a theory supported by no evidence.

6) Therefore . . . .

 

[Chugger]

Yes but that's euthanasia. It was a style of the time. The holocaust is industrial murder for no good reason.

What other country was committing state sponsored euthanasia? (in secret because it was against the will of the population -- see the use of coded language)

Why do you think they were killing these people (mentally ill, handicapped, mentally disabled)?

Nobody is claiming that

What happened inside the Reinhard camps (Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka)?

 

[JohnDoe]

1) Millions of Jews disappeared in the Nazi camp system.

Prove it.

What happened inside the Reinhard camps (Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka?

Dunno, why don't you prove what you claim - that incredible amounts of resources were used to make millions vanish without a trace? Is that right?

 

[mrolonzo]

I think it is time to reiterate the premises of one of the basic arguments against denial, which may help explain why resettlement is relevant. As a (much-needed) intellectual exercise, I will let you deniers fill in the conclusion for yourselves.

1) Millions of Jews disappeared in the Nazi camp system.

2) This requires an explanation, since millions of people do not disappear.

3) The mainstream has an explanation with evidence (they disappeared because they were killed)

4) The revisionists have an explanation with no evidence (the disappeared Jews were sent out of the camp system and resettled resettled).

5) When considering theories to explain a phenomenon, a theory supported by evidence is presumpatively superior to a theory supported by no evidence.

6) Therefore . . . .

1/ Did they?
2/ Does it?
3/ See 1.
4/ What evidence do they have?
5/ See 5.

What other country was committing state sponsored euthanasia? (in secret because it was against the will of the population -- see the use of coded language)

Why do you think they were killing these people (mentally ill, handicapped, mentally disabled)?


What happened inside the Reinhard camps (Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka)?

Oh Euthanasia is a nazi thing now is it? What's your problem with it anyway?

 

[mgc]

Prove it.

About 3.3 million Jews were deported to the camps (we know this from Nazi deportation records, censuses about the number of people in ghettos that were liquidated before the residents were sent to the camps, etc). At the end of the war, at most 300,000—probably considerably less—Jews from the camp system were alive. (We have good records on surviving Jewish populations because they were accomodated by the Allies in displaced persons camps.)

This gap requires explanation as millions do not simply disappear.

Btw I am saying at least 3 million (probably more) died in the camps. But you get to 5 to 6 million total deaths by including deaths from deliberate starvation and other forms of murder in the eastern ghettos, Einsatzgruppen mass killings, and genocide of Jews by Nazi-Allied Croatia and Romania.