The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

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Bonesjones said:
Or you'd just claim they went senile and anything they say can be ignored, just like you do with any other evidence presented to you. All the while ignoring the monstrous impossible gaps in your own story.

You just admitted that yourself here:




So testimony that supports you is amazingly true, testimony against you is the ravings of a crazy person. Curious.
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I think what Chugger is saying is that one witness would not be conclusive evidence, but would be more evidence than we have so far for the "resettlement" thesis, which currently sits at 0 evidence.
 
History Speaks said:
I think what Chugger is saying is that one witness would not be conclusive evidence, but would be more evidence than we have so far for the "resettlement" thesis, which currently sits at 0 evidence.
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All the jews all over the world just appeared with no evidence at all. I literally posted how 30k were living in Shanghai, considering it's a port town, could easily be a multitude more as population may remain static but the individuals would find passage elsewhere. This is a logical start. We also have Siberian Jewish exclusionary zones. We have almost 500k in Isreal alone post war. Not counting the millions known to be in America, you know where they removed religious affiliation at the behest of jews from census and immigration. I wonder why. This compared to absolutely nothing in terms of millions of tons of combustible material to make your fiction a reality. So fuck off you stupid nigger.
 
Chugger said:
No, because he would be at least 90 years old speaking about events that happened 80 years ago.

But if you talk to many people who all say their parents knew it was happening, remembered smelling the bodies, etc, I don't think you can explain this with any reasonable conspiracy beyond some science fiction shit

what do you expect would happen if you went there?
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So if i talk to many people who say their parents related smelling bodies the holocaust is thus proven?

Very little. Some old people would definitely tell lurid tales of vague things they thought maybe happened but don't really know. However, we have interesting notes about the locals around Belzec at the time.



History Speaks said:
If you found a 90 year old Jew who said she was a 10 year old kid when resettled from Treblinka and grew up in the resettlement, or a 95 year old Eastern European who said he saw this resettlement, or a diary from someone living at the time referring to the existence of this resettlement, this would be the best evidence we have yet for the ridiculous "resettlement thesis", according to which millions of Jews were moved out of the camp system into some permanent resettlement.

The fact that deniers do not actually go and look for evidence of what happened to the disappeared millions of Jews in the camp system is revealing. They seem to implicitly recognize that this would be fruitless, and that millions of Jews did indeed "disappear" in the Nazi camp system (and were not transited out of it into resettlement(s)).
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So if I can't find evidence of enough Jews in the east I must therefore conclude that they are in the ground?

History Speaks said:
I think what Chugger is saying is that one witness would not be conclusive evidence, but would be more evidence than we have so far for the "resettlement" thesis, which currently sits at 0 evidence.
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This resettlement thesis. Is that an orthodox belief? Because as far as I know revisionists are not set on that. They have clear evidence of intent but little more than that.
 
mrolonzo said:
Because as far as I know revisionists are not set on that.
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The two deniers I am familiar with who actually know German and read documents (Mattogno and Rudolf) are both set on the resettlement thesis.

Why do they postulate resettlement? Because (I assume) they know that there is a gap of millions of Jews between the number deported to the camps vs those liberated, and realize how absurd it sounds to just say "I guess the Jews disappeared in the camps." So they have to come up with some explanation as to how at least a good number of these Jews left the camp system.

Rudolf has gone so far as to say not knowing where the millions of disappeared Jews went ("Where did they go?") is the Achilles Heel of "revisionism." (He tries to even things about by claiming that where did they go is also somehow a big problem for the mainstream, but that is a pretty obvious cope.)
 
I'd like to point out that for all your holocaust research and all your time spent debating, you've never put forth a novel thought of your own. Only regurgitated the opinions of others. I don't think I've ever seen anyone mention the logistic impossibility of the Holocaust happening. So why am I a shitposter doing more for holocaust research than the supposed experts?

Maybe its because you are all a bunch of retarded academics who have zero thoughts of your own. You literally are retarded.
 
Bonesjones said:
I literally posted how 30k were living in Shanghai
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The Jews in Shanghai were overwhelmingly German-Jewish refugees who left Germany before the Holocaust. There were also I believe (I am actually researching this now) a very small number of mixed ethnic couples whose Chinese parent had converted to Judaism.

On the prodding of their German ally, the Japanese ghettoized the Jews of Shanghai after they conquered the city. But they did not exterminate them, and conditiosn in the Shanghai ghetto, while harsh, was nothing like the starvation conditions in the Polish-Jewish ghettos run by the Germans. In fact, many Japanese were pretty confused by Nazi "racial" policy, and did not understand why the Germans hated the Jews so much.

By the way the German foreign office kept meticulous track of Jewish populations around the world (including in Shanghai) during the war. They were obsessed with Jews and Jewish influence around the world. Strange that in these tons of documents there is not a page about the supposed resettlement of millions of Jews out of the camps and into Eastern Europe.
 
History Speaks said:
The Jews in Shanghai were overwhelmingly German-Jewish refugees who left Germany before the Holocaust. There were also I believe (I am actually researching this now) a very small number of mixed ethnic couples with duel citizenship whose Chinese parent had converted to Judaism.

By the way the German foreign office kept meticulous track of Jewish populations around the world (including in Shanghai) during the war. They were obsessed with Jews and Jewish influence around the world. Strange that in these tons of documents there is not a page about the supposed resettlement of millions of Jews out of the camps and into Eastern Europe.
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Yeah so instead of their non-existence being a curiosity to you, it's just proof they never existed in the first place. Curious.
 
Bonesjones said:
Yeah so instead of their non-existence being a curiosity to you, it's just proof they never existed in the first place. Curious.
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By the way I made a mistake in my last post - the Jews of Shanghai did not have duel citizenship but were either stateless or had Chinese (or depending on marriage or ancestry, some other non-German) citizenship. Obviously the Nazis took away the citizenship of Jews.
 
mrolonzo said:
So if i talk to many people who say their parents related smelling bodies the holocaust is thus proven?
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No, I'm asking you what you actually expect people to say about the stories they've heard about Treblinka. Anyone over 30 who has grown up in the area, will have likely heard stories from direct witnesses.
 
mrolonzo said:
Fascinating. It got tedious right about the time I actually posted details about what actually went on.

Do you think this is a fucking game?

Do you just come here to take part in each side calling each other monsters or liars?

People are in jail over this right now.

And by the way. At what number do I become a denier? 5mil? 4mil? 3mil?1mil? 500000? 250000?
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I’ve been watching this thread ever since you and chugger started arguing. But you guys spend so much time arguing that I don’t want to read chuggers thousand word response to your thousand word response to history speaks thousand word response etc etc etc. My life got way too busy too quickly for this. This will probably be my last post anyways.

“Do you think this is a fucking game?”

Yea.

“Do you just come here to take part in each side calling each other monsters or liars?”

I had a decent back and forth with Lemmingwise, if I was more willing to invest the time I would argue a bit more.

“People are in jail over this right now.”

Cry me a river.

“And by the way. At what number do I become a denier? 5mil? 4mil? 3mil?1mil? 500000? 250000?”

I’d assume that “denial” comes from denying, for example, the deaths from gassing. If a dude believed in the gassings and what not, but “underestimated” the number of Jews who died to be 5 million, then they won’t be considered a denier. But if you get 3 million because you thought a two million Jews were resettled, I’d think people would call you a denier.
 
History Speaks said:
The two deniers I am familiar with who actually know German and read documents (Mattogno and Rudolf) are both set on the resettlement thesis.

Why do they postulate resettlement? Because (I assume) they know that there is a gap of millions of Jews between the number deported to the camps vs those liberated, and realize how absurd it sounds to just say "I guess the Jews disappeared in the camps." So they have to come up with some explanation as to how at least a good number of these Jews left the camp system.

Rudolf has gone so far as to say not knowing where the millions of disappeared Jews went ("Where did they go?") is the Achilles Heel of "revisionism." (He tries to even things about by claiming that where did they go is also somehow a big problem for the mainstream, but that is a pretty obvious cope.)
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Ok. And what is the Achilles heel of orthodoxy?
 
Chugger said:
No, I'm asking you what you actually expect people to say about the stories they've heard about Treblinka. Anyone over 30 who has grown up in the area, will have likely heard stories from direct witnesses.
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I expect them to repeat what someone said.
 
Chugger said:
No, I'm asking you what you actually expect people to say about the stories they've heard about Treblinka. Anyone over 30 who has grown up in the area, will have likely heard stories from direct witnesses.
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mrolonzo said:
I expect them to repeat what someone said.
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My family on my dad's side was at Treblinka, and according to all the family testimony everything there was okay except for the occasional outbreaks of typhus and a shortage of Fanta.
 
I think it's fair to state it's highly possible that revisionism has happened to a degree.
"History is written by the winners" Literally tells you revisionism happens all the time.
I personally haven't looked into much holocaust shit, cause I mean, I have seen enough proof, same with moonlanding to just move on. I feel it's fair to argue the extent of the holocaust, and or details, I personally just don't care to.
 
VideoViewer69 said:
I think it's fair to state it's highly possible that revisionism has happened to a degree.
"History is written by the winners" Literally tells you revisionism happens all the time.
I personally haven't looked into much holocaust shit, cause I mean, I have seen enough proof, same with moonlanding to just move on. I feel it's fair to argue the extent of the holocaust, and or details, I personally just don't care to.
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You will think what you're told to think. Say what you're told to say.

mrolonzo said:
Ok. And what is the Achilles heel of orthodoxy?
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To be fair Mattogno actually does a chapter on resettlement. So I was wrong about that. I'll post quotations
 
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mrolonzo said:
The expressive spirit in man.
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can you be more specific? remember, if Treblinka was a transit camp, what these direct witnesses experienced during the war would be something like this:

they lived near a camp that an enormous amounts of Jews were being transited through. the smell of corpses didn't linger for miles and it was definitely not an extermination center, because many thousands of Jews could be seen leaving the camp every day. yet rumors swirled that everyone sent there was killed.
 
Chugger said:
can you be more specific? remember, if Treblinka was a transit camp, what these direct witnesses experienced during the war would be something like this:

they lived near a camp that an enormous amounts of Jews were being transited through. the smell of corpses didn't linger for miles and it was definitely not an extermination center, because many thousands of Jews could be seen leaving the camp every day. yet rumors swirled that everyone sent there was killed.
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Turn the noise down on each expression. Very limited smell, much smaller amounts of people going through, commotion, sounds of and sights of trains certainly. That's about it.
 
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