The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

[Spud]

I think that we can all agree that no one here is going to change their minds? So, to make this thread interesting I propose that instead of debating the existence of the Holobunga, we should instead plan the execution, of - another if you're a believer, or the first if you're not - Holocaust.

That way, we can all come together and use the Nazis own material to help us prepare for any shortfalls that made the actual Holocaust fail so badly, that the intended matzahs in the oven were instead given control of their own nation. I'll start us off
- Suggestion 1: Don't lose the war.

Any further input?

- Suggestion 2: For Treblinka we make it two large rooms rather than 6 small ones connected by one narrow corridor

 

[Bonesjones]

Aktion T4 is a signed policy from Hitler. I even archived an image of it to this thread.
The Wannsee protocol and Aktion Reinhard are similarly real policies. You're being weird; handwaving away real fact as fairy tales. I’m frustrated because I post large amounts of the evidence you’re requesting to the thread, but when I do you just laugh it off or switch topics; you say everything i post is fake propaganda.

No one is doubting the legitimacy of the orders, we are doubting their application to the holocaust. They wanted to expell the jews from German territory and that's what they did. Suggesting that it was also a secret extermination order as well has no basis in reality.

If it’s all propaganda then who is behind it all? If the Holocaust is fake who fabricated it and why? I won’t ask for tons of details at this point, just a hypothesis is fine.

As mentioned many times you duplicitous idiot, the allies, the Jews, all of them had a gain in faking the holocaust narrative, either directly or indirectly. The holocaust is a central force in legitimatizing the claim for Isreal.

I’d rather not PL about my feelings and thoughts about Judaism in this thread; but suffice to say it was an important part of my faith formation in Christianity to leave the fold for awhile and learn about the Old Testament and what came before. I’ll DM you with more detail.

Don't want to expose your own biases publicity, because it calls into question your own motivation for defending the holocaust? Weird how you go out of your way to cover for a group called the synagogue of Satan, you shabos goy.

 

[Lemmingwise]

@Stan I’m holding you in higher contempt than the weasels populating this thread because you contribute to its ugly existence by engaging them all. These sub-humans aren’t here to question the Holocaust, they are here to deny its existence. Any and all information that you will provide them shall be eschewed, ignored or scorned by design. Any discourse with civility or decor will be treated as a concession and an invitation to further spew their vile bile. This isn’t a place for intellectual stimulation – it’s a literal dead end, mentally and spiritually.

It's interesting to believe in the concept of subhumans and that even interacting with them deserves moral condemnation. I wonder where positions like that could lead to if they are broadly adopted. It's a position more commonly associated with another side than the one you're on.

Because if there is no talk, there is only war left. This is a fact of life and unassailable.

 

[Bonesjones]

@Stan I’m holding you in higher contempt than the weasels populating this thread because you contribute to its ugly existence by engaging them all. These sub-humans aren’t here to question the Holocaust, they are here to deny its existence. Any and all information that you will provide them shall be eschewed, ignored or scorned by design. Any discourse with civility or decor will be treated as a concession and an invitation to further spew their vile bile. This isn’t a place for intellectual stimulation – it’s a literal dead end, mentally and spiritually.

Then why did the Nazis stop the push for transexuality and degeneracy? Both of which are mental and spiritual and literal dead ends.

 

[mrolonzo]

No one is doubting the legitimacy of the orders, we are doubting their application to the holocaust. They wanted to expell the jews from German territory and that's what they did. Suggesting that it was also a secret extermination order as well has no basis in reality.

As mentioned many times you duplicitous idiot, the allies, the Jews, all of them had a gain in faking the holocaust narrative, either directly or indirectly. The holocaust is a central force in legitimatizing the claim for Isreal.

Don't want to expose your own biases publicity, because it calls into question your own motivation for defending the holocaust? Weird how you go out of your way to cover for a group called the synagogue of Satan, you shabos goy.

I really really want you out my house. And I am going to kick you out.


....But also kill you....

Why you say? Oh you know, the usual.

Thanks, my bad, I thought the pdf was just a license notice.

Ok. So its pretty clear that this is well documented, well sourced and clearly written. On first glance, is that fair?

 

[mgc]

It is true that a vanishingly small number of Jews were released from the camp system. If highly compelling political reasons were presented for release the Nazis occasionally assessed that releasing or ransoming him or her would be prudent. Particularly relevant in their decision making here was that a number of escapees had already attested to the gas chamber. And of course if inmates were in a camp without gas chambers, they could not attest to the existence thereof.

I do not understand the logic of attempting to use a fringe (way under 0.1%) set of exceptions to prove the rule.

I am actually researching one of these cases now, a Jewish woman who was a Chinese citizen (I am not going to include her name here because I do not think tortured and trafficked women should be ridiculed by neonazis for having a linguistically mixed name).

According to the German documents I have read (obviously I do not know Chinese), Chinese officials had inquired about this lady’s well being and demanded her release. I also read German foreign office document requesting she be released or at least not subject to the typical ‘Jewish measures’ inflicted on camp inmates, because it could antagonize the Chinese and lead to reprisals on Germans in China. I am trying to figure out now if she actually was released.

 

[Bonesjones]

I really really want you out my house. And I am going to kick you out.


....But also kill you....

Why you say? Oh you know, the usual.

Also we aren't going to kill you where you are but expend the resources to ship you 1000 miles away to do it there. During a war in which we are running out of supplies. This makes perfect sense because we are so super villain evil we want you to be exterminated rather than win. Also we let a lot of you go anyways. You know just because we are nice guys.

 

[mrolonzo]

It is true that a vanishingly small number of Jews were released from the camp system. If highly compelling political reasons were presented for release the Nazis occasionally assessed that releasing or ransoming him or her would be prudent. Particularly relevant in their decision making here was that a number of escapees had already attested to the gas chamber. And of course if inmates were in a camp without gas chambers, they could not attest to the existence thereof.

I do not understand the logic of attempting to use a fringe (way under 0.1%) set of exceptions to prove the rule.

I am actually researching one of these cases now, a Jewish woman who was a Chinese citizen (I am not going to include her name because I do not think tortured and trafficked women should be ridiculed by neonazis for having a linguistically mixed name).

According to the German documents I have read (obviously I do not know Chinese), Chinese officials had inquired about this lady’s well being and demanded her release. I also read German foreign office document requesting she be released or at least not subject to the typical ‘Jewish measures’ inflicted on camp inmates, because it could antagonize the Chinese and lead to reprisals on Germans in China. I am trying to figure out now if she actually was released.

Indeed. There are clear records of a Jewish chinese lady Yu Dia Soon being held at the camp and subjected to the typical Jewish measures of Arbeit, Essen and possible torture in Die Krankenhaus!!

 

[Bonesjones]

It is true that a vanishingly small number of Jews were released from the camp system. If highly compelling political reasons were presented for release the Nazis occasionally assessed that releasing or ransoming him or her would be prudent. Particularly relevant in their decision making here was that a number of escapees had already attested to the gas chamber. And of course if inmates were in a camp without gas chambers, they could not attest to the existence thereof.

So they carted jews all over the place to kill them but also let them go? I thought they wanted to genocide them all stopping only to use them for forced labor?

As we all know eyewitness testimony is sacred and never mistaken nor misremembered. No one has ever said they saw things that are impossible to exist about the holocaust.

I am actually researching one of these cases now, a Jewish woman who was a Chinese citizen (I am not going to include her name because I do not think tortured and trafficked women should be ridiculed by neonazis for having a linguistically mixed name).

So she was a Jew who had Chinese citizenship? So the Nazis were willing to give up a communist Jewish traitor to a country on the opposite side of the war for little or no reason? How deliciously evil of them.

 

[Imperial Citizen]

No one is doubting the legitimacy of the orders, we are doubting their application to the holocaust. They wanted to expell the jews from German territory and that's what they did. Suggesting that it was also a secret extermination order as well has no basis in reality.

From the Wannesse Protocol:

Under proper guidance, in the course of the final solution the Jews are to be allocated for appropriate labor in the East. Able-bodied Jews, separated according to sex, will be taken in large work columns to these areas for work on roads, in the course of which action doubtless a large portion will be eliminated by natural causes.
The possible final remnant will, since it will undoubtedly consist of the most resistant portion, have to be treated accordingly, because it is the product of natural selection and would, if released, act as a the seed of a new Jewish revival (see the experience of history.)

What kind of “work on roads” is going to kill a large amount of the labor force? Why would they want an ever decreasing labor force?

The second paragraph talks about concern for a new Jewish revival that would rise if the final remnant of the Jews were not treated accordingly. It reads that if the most resistant Jews are allowed to reproduce, it would lead to, well, more resistant Jews.

These paragraphs demonstrate a willingness to have a certain population work in dangerous conditions as well as prevent them from reproducing. It’s no order to round them up and gas them, but it is a policy document that expressly aims to reduce the Jewish population in German occupied territory.

 

[Stabmaster Arson]

(I am not going to include her name here because I do not think tortured and trafficked women should be ridiculed by neonazis for having a linguistically mixed name).

Half Jewish, half Chinese? What was she called, Misch Ling?

 

[m1ddl3m4rch]

I am actually researching one of these cases now, a Jewish woman who was a Chinese citizen (I am not going to include her name here because I do not think tortured and trafficked women should be ridiculed by neonazis for having a linguistically mixed name).

You like calling people who disagree with you neonazis. Crypto-Muslims like you cannot be trustworthy with Jews.

 

[Bonesjones]

From the Wannesse Protocol:

What kind of “work on roads” is going to kill a large amount of the labor force? Why would they want an ever decreasing labor force?

The second paragraph talks about concern for a new Jewish revival that would rise if the final remnant of the Jews were not treated accordingly. It reads that if the most resistant Jews are allowed to reproduce, it would lead to, well, more resistant Jews.

These paragraphs demonstrate a willingness to have a certain population work in dangerous conditions as well as prevent them from reproducing. It’s no order to round them up and gas them, but it is a policy document that expressly aims to reduce the Jewish population in German occupied territory.

Lmao, look at the death tolls of any large scale engineering project done at that time period. People dying during construction is a given, add that to the fact most of the jews were old and not suited to manual labor, it would be dumb not to mention that as a factor. Plus we all know a jew would rather die than do manual labor anyway.

The jews had already declared economic war on Germany, suggesting that they will hold a grudge is also meaningless.

They demonstrate a willingness to use the Jewish population for a purpose, which is to move them out of Germany and force them to work. Nothing more or less.

 

[JohnDoe]

I am actually researching one of these cases now, a Jewish woman who was a Chinese citizen (I am not going to include her name because I do not think tortured and trafficked women should be ridiculed by neonazis for having a linguistically mixed name).

"I have some evidence that might be interesting."
"Oh neat, let's see it then."
"Noooo, you might be meanies about it!"
"Then why even bring it up?"
"I want to bolster my argument by implying it has evidentiary support without actually presenting said evidence."
"That makes you seem really deceptive and your theory seem unsupported."
"YOU'RE A DELUSIONAL NEO-NAZI ANTISEMITE!"
".............."
"So also I have a USB drive full of pictures that totally prove an assertion of mine correct."
"Okay.....can we see those photos?"
"No way, I deleted them because only evil Neo-Nazis like you would need to actually see evidence. Plus you'd probably jerk off to them SINCE YOU'RE SO EVIL!"
"I'm starting to think that none of this so called evidence actually exists."
"It totally does, but the burden of proof is on you! So travel to the Super Credible Archive (sponsored by Israel) and look at the Photoshop files yourself, then come back and positively disprove my assertions."
"Thats not how burden of proof works, you say that certain things happened, it's on you to prove it-"
"I don't have to actually substantiate any of my claims, since I'm on the RIGHT SIDE OF HISTORY."

 

[mgc]

@Stan I’m holding you in higher contempt than the weasels populating this thread because you contribute to its ugly existence by engaging them all. These sub-humans aren’t here to question the Holocaust, they are here to deny its existence. Any and all information that you will provide them shall be eschewed, ignored or scorned by design. Any discourse with civility or decor will be treated as a concession and an invitation to further spew their vile bile. This isn’t a place for intellectual stimulation – it’s a literal dead end, mentally and spiritually.

This is an interesting point (I say that despite the highly unflattering implications of it for me, as someone who argues against deniers actively).

But it is simply not true that no deniers can be convinced by the evidence. Mark Weber, David Irving, David Cole, and Eric Hunt, four of the most famous deniers, have all moved away from denial (either partially or entirely in the case of Hunt) based on arguments from the other side.

When you are dealing with a cult, whether Holocaust denial or Scientology, deconversion is a rough business. But it can still work with persistence and evidence on a minority of the cultists.

 

[mrolonzo]

It is true that a vanishingly small number of Jews were released from the camp system. If highly compelling political reasons were presented for release the Nazis occasionally assessed that releasing or ransoming him or her would be prudent. Particularly relevant in their decision making here was that a number of escapees had already attested to the gas chamber. And of course if inmates were in a camp without gas chambers, they could not attest to the existence thereof.

I do not understand the logic of attempting to use a fringe (way under 0.1%) set of exceptions to prove the rule.

I am actually researching one of these cases now, a Jewish woman who was a Chinese citizen (I am not going to include her name here because I do not think tortured and trafficked women should be ridiculed by neonazis for having a linguistically mixed name).

According to the German documents I have read (obviously I do not know Chinese), Chinese officials had inquired about this lady’s well being and demanded her release. I also read German foreign office document requesting she be released or at least not subject to the typical ‘Jewish measures’ inflicted on camp inmates, because it could antagonize the Chinese and lead to reprisals on Germans in China. I am trying to figure out now if she actually was released.

Exceptions do not disprove the rule.....

A rule you say? What rule?

I have access to a number of rules given by the SS. The camp standing orders and regulations.

I have to point out here your callous disregard for the thousands of SS men having to witness Jews being released. Have you thought about the implications for them? The seething must have been off the charts.

 

[Bonesjones]

This is an interesting point (I say that despite the highly unflattering implications of it for me, as someone who argues against deniers actively).

But it is simply not true that no deniers can be convinced by the evidence. Mark Weber, David Irving, David Cole, and Eric Hunt, four of the most famous deniers, have all moved away from denial (either partially or entirely in the case of Hunt) based on arguments from the other side.

When you are dealing with a cult, whether Holocaust denial or Scientology, deconversion is a rough business. But it can still work with persistence and evidence on a minority of the cultists.

Lol convinced by arguments like the fists of the oppressor convince the subdued.

Also reading about jews in China they said Shanghai had around 30k. Which could easily be a cover for more, since they could use it to ship them to other places once they established themselves. Look at that the jews helped push communism and succeeded.

 

[mgc]

"I have some evidence that might be interesting."
"Oh neat, let's see it then."
"Noooo, you might be meanies about it!"
"Then why even bring it up?"
"I want to bolster my argument by implying it has evidentiary support without actually presenting said evidence."
"That makes you seem really deceptive and your theory seem unsupported."
"YOU'RE A DELUSIONAL NEO-NAZI ANTISEMITE!"
".............."
"So also I have a USB drive full of pictures that totally prove an assertion of mine correct."
"Okay.....can we see those photos?"
"No way, I deleted them because only evil Neo-Nazis like you would need to actually see evidence. Plus you'd probably jerk off to them SINCE YOU'RE SO EVIL!"
"I'm starting to think that none of this so called evidence actually exists."
"It totally does, but the burden of proof is on you! So travel to the Super Credible Archive (sponsored by Israel) and look at the Photoshop files yourself, then come back and positively disprove my assertions."
"Thats not how burden of proof works, you say that certain things happen, it's on you to prove it-"
"I don't have to actually substantiate any of my claims, since I'm on the RIGHT SIDE OF HISTORY."

lol these are side notes and tangents that have nothing to do with my case. (I brought up the pictures in a conversation with another poster about how wicked neo-nazis are, which is a moralistic converation not a historical one).

I am not telling anyone to take my word on stuff I have not published, which is why when I am actually making historical arguments rather than going off on conversational tangents about my eesearch, I frequently post copies of documents. The point that releases from the camp system were extremely uncommon is a matter of public record, and is not based on research I have done. The thing about the Jewish Chinese national who was arrested by the Nazis and taken to the camp system, yet possibly released, was simply a research anecdote I thought some people might find interesting.

When I cite evidence from Nazi extermination policy, it is usually in the public domain and can be googled. The times it has not been I have posted the relevant documents.

 

[m1ddl3m4rch]

The thing about the Jewish Chinese national who was arrested by the Nazis and taken to the camp system was simply a research anecdote I thought some people might find interesting.

We might, if we could verify it. No one is interested in an unsubstantiated "research anecdote". Which you should've understood by now with all the insistence on evidence.

When I cite evidence from Nazi extermination policy, it is almost all in the public domain and can be googled. The few times it has not been I have posted the relevant documents.

You're not citing if you don't give the citations. When you do footnotes and endnotes for your coursework do you just write "can be googled".

 

[Stan]

@Stan I’m holding you in higher contempt than the weasels populating this thread because you contribute to its ugly existence by engaging them all. These sub-humans aren’t here to question the Holocaust, they are here to deny its existence. Any and all information that you will provide them shall be eschewed, ignored or scorned by design. Any discourse with civility or decor will be treated as a concession and an invitation to further spew their vile bile. This isn’t a place for intellectual stimulation – it’s a literal dead end, mentally and spiritually.

I see what you mean, and I do feel at this point that earnestness and fact-finding and bringing what I feel is strong evidence of the Shoah back here for discussion isn’t going anywhere at all. Everything I’ve submitted is fake according to Bones, lonzo, and a few other diehards, and to them I am a shill of a giant conspiracy that’s gone on for 60 years involving tens of thousands of people for challenging their mindset with these facts. I’ve brought up Goebbel’s Diary, Himmler’s speech in Posen, Hitler’s own comments about extermination of the Jews, and nobody is willing to acknowledge these things ever happened because it won’t fit with their charitable-Nazi narrative.

I’m sure that PLing about my personal experience with Judaism is reason enough for the pro-Nazi crowd to discount anything further I have to say. But one observation I do have about Holocaust deniers, and of Anti-Semites in general, is how little they really know about Jews or Judaism. Like the comment earlier about me “not being invited to the mechitza.” The mechitza is a little divider wall in an orthodox synagogue. The Jewish term for a pulpit is “bemah”, and it would have taken Bones one second to look that up, but he didn’t want to.

It is so eerie when a group of people outright hate a religion they barely know anything about, because in that case the antagonists make stuff up that makes no sense if you do know the religion and culture just a little bit. Like the blood libel. Blood libel was a rumor among Christians that Jews would kidnap children and drink their blood for the Sabbath. The concept violates Jewish law, which specifies that blood of any kind is not a kosher food. The person who made it up didn’t even know something as basic as that.

It would be lulzy if it hadn’t been the real justification to kill millions of innocent people.