The Final Fantasy Thread

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The issue is FFX has to go up against many impressive casts. Some casts which manage to have it all. I'd say 9 does better. 8 I've been too long without playing to say. 7 has its nigh pointless characters as optional ones at least, and we're starting to hit some technological barriers given how pioneering an effort it was for Square. 6 has a bigger cast so some being lost is more excusable. 4 and 5 being more or less memorable I think comes down to taste and technological disparity.
I'm curious how you think 9 does better. Yuna's a better leading lady. What other casting beats resonated with you? Steiner's (intentionally?) irritating. Amarant and Freya have negligible presence. Most 9 lovers liked the Vivi arc. The tragedy of Yuna really trumps the Vivi arc, IMO. 8 is just bad in terms of characterization: too much of a sprawling cast, too few of the characters did much at all, and the exact mechanics of how the Sorceress(es) worked were deliberately obtuse. I'd argue that the love triangle in FF7 is one of the more memorable writing features in the PSX games. 6 is absolutely the high-water mark of the SNES era. 5 became a boring harem anime in terms of plot. 4 had story, but the OG translation was dog water. The most interesting character in FF4 was Kain. And then there's the NES era, where the closest thing to interesting characterization we got was "this dude unironically talks to beavers" from FF2's Gus.
 
On the ten point, lulu is pretty pivotal to wakka’s arc both in terms of their relationship and being able to work as a middle character to give wakka more context to Titus. Kimahri also does a good job of giving more interesting interactions on gagazet plus just the right sprinkle of insight about yuna and braska to strengthen overall world building. X is just complex enough to make you think and hide its twists without being nonsensical, once you understand what summons are and the lies from yevon it fits pretty easily into place. It only gets weird in x-2 with the idea that Titus can still come back, but even that makes some sense based on pyre flies and the far plane
 
I'm curious how you think 9 does better. Yuna's a better leading lady. What other casting beats resonated with you? Steiner's (intentionally?) irritating. Amarant and Freya have negligible presence. Most 9 lovers liked the Vivi arc. The tragedy of Yuna really trumps the Vivi arc, IMO. 8 is just bad in terms of characterization: too much of a sprawling cast, too few of the characters did much at all, and the exact mechanics of how the Sorceress(es) worked were deliberately obtuse. I'd argue that the love triangle in FF7 is one of the more memorable writing features in the PSX games. 6 is absolutely the high-water mark of the SNES era. 5 became a boring harem anime in terms of plot. 4 had story, but the OG translation was dog water. The most interesting character in FF4 was Kain. And then there's the NES era, where the closest thing to interesting characterization we got was "this dude unironically talks to beavers" from FF2's Gus.
9 doesn't beat 10's characters and their Arc's but is more beloved for the setting and plot, also its refreshing and very out of place to have such an.. established confident and clever protag like Zidane, he has some flaws but generally he comes across as pretty well done saavy thief/lovable chaotic good hero who is "in the know" about alot of the initial story, and quickly adapts to events as the unfold, while many times in the plot the characters are out maneuvered, it still "feels" like he's far more forward and proactive compared to previous FF protags/crews.
 
9's a dud for me.
I can agree, with all the love the game gets I never got it. I don't remember it being bad, I just wouldn't put it at the top of any all time greatest list. Maybe I'd change my mind if I played it again as an adult, but I spent an entire Christmas vacation from school playing it and the Saturday before vacation ended I beat it at like 2am, went to sleep, then never thought about that game ever again.
 
baffling.
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I'm curious how you think 9 does better. Yuna's a better leading lady. What other casting beats resonated with you? Steiner's (intentionally?) irritating. Amarant and Freya have negligible presence. Most 9 lovers liked the Vivi arc. The tragedy of Yuna really trumps the Vivi arc, IMO. 8 is just bad in terms of characterization: too much of a sprawling cast, too few of the characters did much at all, and the exact mechanics of how the Sorceress(es) worked were deliberately obtuse. I'd argue that the love triangle in FF7 is one of the more memorable writing features in the PSX games. 6 is absolutely the high-water mark of the SNES era. 5 became a boring harem anime in terms of plot. 4 had story, but the OG translation was dog water. The most interesting character in FF4 was Kain. And then there's the NES era, where the closest thing to interesting characterization we got was "this dude unironically talks to beavers" from FF2's Gus.
Well for one I’m talking about just the cast and their arcs/dynamics. 9 is more cartoony so Steiner being irritating mattered a lot less than Tidus or Rikku being irritating. Freya I know had stuff cut but what’s there resonated. The villain was better, both of them really (I mean Kuja and Garland of course). Necron and Yu Yevon have too little daylight between them for me to care (both are essentially symbols, and I never really felt like Yu Yevon was Sin but was just inside of Sin, though that’s just me). Beatrix clears most of X’s supporting cast. Zidane beats Tidus. Vivi being beaten by Yuna is no big deal because I would actually give Yuna the best heroine crown anyway. Etc etc. X had kinda dumb villains in my opinion so that’s the biggest one. IX had great ones, besides the Queen, because they provide seriousness to break the levity. Whereas X’s villains feel a lot like what people mock in FF’s rogues gallery.

4 and 5 feel quite memorable for their times. And 4 has a big cast that are used pretty efficiently even if we can now look back and see the tropes. 5 was, in my opinion, the first broadly lighthearted cast but they did a lot with only 5 people.

Also IX was on PS1 so I do grade it by pushing that hardware as much as it did.
 
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Some thoughts about each game's cast of playable characters. Only the games I've fully finished myself, so no XIII, XV, and XVI

II and III both have fairly simple characters, but they're memorable enough for characters from an NES game. I would say Guy is definite weak point of II, Frioniel and Maria have some fun personality in their lines across the game, but Guy is hard carried by "Guy speak beaver" (which isn't even a literal translation, in Japanese it's "Guy speak with animals", the English localization made it sound a lot funnier by specifying beavers).

IV's character are fairly two-dimensional, but they have enough charm as well as character arc playing into the game's over theme of revenge, guilt, and forgiveness that they're the earliest cast you'll often see people have an emotional attachment to. If there's a weak member of the cast, I'd say it's Rosa since she's the only one with no conflict or trauma specific to her. She's just there to support Cecil and be what makes Cain jealous of him. She's fairly typical of her character archetype, although I do think it's a bit unique how her and Cecil are already together before the game even starts. She's carried by her scene before the final dungeon where Cecil tries to leave her behind and she sneaks back onto the ship with Rydia, proving she has backbone if Cecil is doing something reckless.
On a side not, most of the new characters in The After Years are duds, but I do like Ursula and Leonora. I also liked how Opera Omnia had Leonora redeem not one but two villains from other FF games by the power of being really, really nice.

V's cast also isn't deep, but they're have fun dynamics which works with the game's overall tone. I like how they all embody one of the four elements in a way. I think something that helps them is how there's only 5 of them, and technically just 4 at a time. Because of that they're a tight-knit group and it's easy to see the character dynamics between any given pair.

VI is the first game where people would more likely describe characters as three-dimensional or deep or some such praise. It's a huge cast, but they're mostly a pretty memorable crew who each have their own character arc or backstory that ties into the game's theme about coping with and recovering from tragedy. Umaro and Gogo are weak links, but they're gimmicky bonus character you can optionally recruit late in the game, so everyone's pretty much fine with that. I think Gau also kind of weak, his feral child thing means there's not much to him outside his short personal quest in the second half. For also being an optional character, I do like Mog. Him losing all his Moogle friends and you finding him alone in the World of Ruin pulls at my heartstrings every time. Character dynamics are a bit all over the place because of how big the cast is, so they're kind of separated into groups within the overall party, but something I like is that Square designed the game so you're forced to use everyone for at least a little while, which forces the player to imprint at least a little bit onto everyone.

VII is my favorite FF, so obviously I think it has the best characters. I like all of them and wouldn't say any are a weak link. Obviously it's Cloud's story at the end of the day, so some characters get more importance then others, like Tifa, but I think everyone contributes well to the plot and has a nice personal tale. Even Vincent, who's optional and has no large scale quest like Yuffie, feels like he adds something meaningful to the plot and fits in with the group. Maybe I'm partially saying this because of later spin-off material, but I feel like you can easily imagine the group dynamics between anyone in the party, even the ones who barely or never directly interact with each other. The one thing is that didn't really do like VI and make you use everyone at some point. Mainly Cait Sith is never needed to be used at any point.

VIII is a weird one because it's the most lop-sided in giving all the focus on Squall and Rinoa, with the rest on the side supporting them. Because of that, a lot of people tend to be dismissive of the other characters as not important, but I think the creators mostly accoplished what they intended. Without getting into Squall and Rinoa, I think even with them as the big focus the other characters still have their places to shine. I like how Zell has this low-key thing throughout much of the game where he feels guilty for fucking up that one time and seemingly getting Seifer killed, so he keeps trying to find ways to redeem himself and practically make himself Squall's second-in-command. And I find Irvine funny because he's the type of character you'll basically never see anyone say is their favorite, but he's explicitely meant to be forgetable in-universe, which is why he tries acting like a show-off when you first recruit him. It's funny because when you first play the game you might think the devs intend for you to find his too-cool-for-school antics cool, but if you paid attention and replay the game it's clear he's actually a tryhard dork. Even so, as things go he says some things later that show he's the most mentally stable of the group in the end, though one of his best scenes is entire optional and extremely easy to miss. Selphie is notable to me she acts a lot like autistic girls I've seen or met IRL, which isn't something I've really seen elsewhere in fiction. Overall, I think VIII's cast is actually the most "real" in a way, which I think might be exactly why some people get really frustrated with them. Because they're dorky and frustrating in way actual dipshit teens are.

IX is my second-favorite FF, so it's also the game I think has the second-best cast. I like all these weirdos and I think the developers did what they intended in giving each one a story and angle that fits within the game's overall themes. They also have a lot of fun interactions between them. There's some lop-sidedness with focus given to Zidane, Vivi, and Garnet over the rest, but I think don't any of the others are ever irrelevent or could be written out without negatively affecting things. But hot take, if there's a weak member of the group, I'd say it's actually Garnet. She plays the slightly rebellious princess archetype too closely that it starts to hold her back. I feel like her romance with Zidane never really goes beyond the two of them feeling kinship in being adopted orphens who felt out of place. And I think she has the least dynamics with the rest of the party, sans maybe Quina but I think Quina is fine because of how their comic relief character. Like Zidane has clear relationships with everyone, no need to go into it. Vivi has Steiner making him his little buddy, him and Eiko have this thing where she drags him into hijinks because she sees him as a kid her age, and him and Eiko get watched over by Freija at times (in Japanese they literally called her onee-san). Freija has her moments with Salamander, and he also has stuff with Eiko where she tries screwing with him and he tries ignoring her but gets her out of trouble in a tsundere way. The main missing links here are that Vivi and Salamander never interact I don't think, and Steiner never really gets a chance to interact directly with Freija or Salamander. Garnet, despite being the main heroine, only really has her relationships with Zidane and Steiner, and the one-sided rivalry with Eiko, but she doesn't particularly interact with anyone else. Even her interactions with Vivi are kind of through Zidane. Hmm, we could probably think over and argue on this a lot more, so I'll move on.

X has a solid cast who all contribute meaninfully to the story. Probably helps there's only 7 of them. Kimahri is a weak link because of how little he talks, he doesn't really have a dynamic with anyone except Yuna and a little bit Tidus, but he doesn't a couple cool things and I don't think the story would improve if you wrote him out. We've already been talking about X so I don't have anything more to say here.

XII has the weakest cast since like, the NES games, I think. I like a lot of XII's plot, but the party on their own are kind of iffy. And I think there's kind of a confluence of issues as to why. For one thing, XII barely has any sort of comic relief scenes, or really any scenes of the party just like, chilling for a little bit. Everything is really serious and plot-important all the time, so it's hard to get a read on if the characters have any relationship between each other outside of needing to travel and fight together purely because of circumstance. I think I remember Ashe saying something implying she considers Vaan and Panelo friends in the ending, but that feels weird because I can't imagine what exactly she thinks of them beyond that they were reliable to fight alongside. Vaan does have a thing with Ashe in the game, but it's really that friendly in an intimate way, it's more that he serves as her moral compass in their whole discussion about revenge because of the Occuria using visions of their dead loved ones to manipulate them, which Vaan didn't fall for. And another thing is Vaan. He's a rather archetypical teenage JRPG lead where he's brash, naive about the world, and doesn't get much respect from older party members at the start. You could broadly compare him to Tidus, but the thing with that is that Tidus only really acts in cringy ways early in the story. As the story goes on, Tidus starts acting in more level-headed ways about things and you can feel earns more respect from the other party members, to where it doesn't feel weird that he's the one emotionally leading the charge into battle at the end. Vaan though never feels like he's anything more than a dorky kid to most of the rest of the party even to the end of the game. Well okay, Balflear respects him enough by the end to trust him to look after his ship for a while and then invite him to do air pirate stuff, but it's not quite the same thing. I think that's why so many people don't like Vaan as the nominal protagonist of the game. And speaking of character dynamics, I don't recall Bashe really talking to anyone 1-to-1 except maybe Ashe, now Panelo with anyone except Vaan. It makes sense that Balflear was sort of the popular character people often say should be the lead, since even outside running gag of calling himself the leading man, he does kind of feel like it in some ways with his interactions and being the one with the airship, but the story is written to where it makes the most sense with Vaan as the viewpoint character to start so we can see a ground level view of politics in Rabanastre before the plot really kicks off. None of the characters are bad indivitually and they all contribute something to the plot, but they're less than the some of their parts as a group because there's little effort put into making them feel like they have any particular comradery.
 
Obviously it's Cloud's story at the end of the day
No big argument from me on anything but I always saw this as like Seinfeld being “the show about nothing”. It isn’t exactly the whole truth but it’s an idea caught on and is a big factor so it looks plausible.

Part of “Cloud’s story” is that he is quite the opposite of someone with main character energy after all. He’s arguably a guy dropped into the story, the story of Sephiroth becoming a God having blazed through his life, but he’s in the best position to stop our villain. And that’s why he’s the most popular protagonist. It is the ultimate fantasy of us video game nerds.
 
X had kinda dumb villains in my opinion so that’s the biggest one. IX had great ones, besides the Queen, because they provide seriousness to break the levity. Whereas X’s villains feel a lot like what people mock in FF’s rogues gallery.
X's villains are awful, Seymour just comes across as petulant, his angst over his mom giving her life to give him a Final Aeon doesn't hit because he's smug at the outset, and never really shares any true emotions with the cast, he never gives anything but impotent rage and bald desire for power once he's being honest, and by then any attempt to give him depth is over, he's just the guy showing up every few hours to get whacked, the rest are barely characters, the Religion fuckers have a handful of lines, the best villain in the game, Lady Yunalesca, is a singular bossfight, and is the only villain who justifies anything with any rationale, for her you WILL get the final Aeon, and you WILL keep the cycle going, because she did it with her Husband and now its your fuckin turn, to her there is no other way.

Meanwhile IX has Kuja, who a great little twist of a villain, in that he's literally playing the role of the Evil Villain, down to having a secret Evil Lair, all because he's completely fucking pissed at his lot in life and would rather be doing basically anything else but following Garland's orders, and all the villainy he does is to be free, to then be cruely told at the last moment, once power is attained, that he has a very very short time to live anyways, and at this moment he drops all of the flamboyant play-acting as some sort of Theater Villain he likes so much, and just becomes a cold omnicidist out of pure despair.

to then have the final character flip, of realizing he doesn't want to do ANY of that, while remote-viewing your parties fight with Necron, and resurrects the cast from the weird intbetween-afterlife essentially saving the day, fully admits all of his flaws and fuckups, and dies at peace with his brother.
no other FF villain had such a.. well complete Mea Culpa moment as Kuja

Part of “Cloud’s story” is that he is quite the opposite of someone with main character energy after all. He’s arguably a guy dropped into the story, the story of Sephiroth becoming a God having blazed through his life, but he’s in the best position to stop our villain. And that’s why he’s the most popular protagonist. It is the ultimate fantasy of us video game nerds.
the only good part of all the extended shit around FF7 is the fleshing out of Sephiroth's character, learning his entire lifes story and how he was a really good guy slowly beaten down by the world, the people in it, and likely a little bit of the Jenova bits in him driving him bonkers, is great, its hard to say how much of his villainous turn is him, and how much is Jenova, considering how different he was before his depression and then madness at the Reactor.
 
I never really felt like Yu Yevon was Sin but was just inside of Sin, though that’s just me
I mean, I assume that’s the point of that weird castle glued to the back of Sin’s head, that’s Yu Yevon’s pad, right? And that's how Auron “rode Sin” to Zanarkand? They never explain that, but then the inside is just the traditional FF final dungeon: floating walkways, constellations...
 
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the only good part of all the extended shit around FF7 is the fleshing out of Sephiroth's character, learning his entire lifes story and how he was a really good guy slowly beaten down by the world, the people in it, and likely a little bit of the Jenova bits in him driving him bonkers, is great, its hard to say how much of his villainous turn is him, and how much is Jenova, considering how different he was before his depression and then madness at the Reactor.
I actually have mixed feelings about that because it muddies what I think was clear— Sephiroth surrenders to his nature because he finds his link to humanity severed (originally thinking be was Cetra before realizing the truth… and not changing his mind despite Jenova being the opposite of noble cetra).

They haven’t changed that but presenting that he’s disillusioned with humanity because Shinra are such bastards makes it seem less important (even though it is the Rosetta Stone to reading his character). I mean we could assume Shinra did little to nurture love for mankind.

But that’s how I feel about most of the compilation. They add at the expense of what was clear enough.
 
I mean, I assume that’s the point of that weird castle glued to the back of Sin’s head, that’s Yu Yevon’s pad, right? And that's how Auron “rode Sin” to Zanarkand? They never explain that, but then the inside is just the traditional FF final dungeon: floating walkways, constellations...

The whole Yu Yevon / Yunalesca thing was redundant. Pick one. It could’ve just been Yunalesca summoning Sin to avenge daddy or whatever. Would’ve been poetic, Yuna trying to honor her father while Yunalesca’s perverting that same idea.
lol no, Yu Yevon has degenerated to the Tick thing, and he instilled it with the commands to keep Zanderkand protected, keep technology low ect, simple "if then" shit.
he takes over the FInal Aeons, and then makes the pyreflies into armor around the Final Aeon, which he controls, those Pyreflies are what you would call Sin, it takes some time to rebuild the Pyrefly armor, and that's the Calm.
 
No big argument from me on anything but I always saw this as like Seinfeld being “the show about nothing”. It isn’t exactly the whole truth but it’s an idea caught on and is a big factor so it looks plausible.

Part of “Cloud’s story” is that he is quite the opposite of someone with main character energy after all. He’s arguably a guy dropped into the story, the story of Sephiroth becoming a God having blazed through his life, but he’s in the best position to stop our villain. And that’s why he’s the most popular protagonist. It is the ultimate fantasy of us video game nerds.
I suppose I don't disagree, but I said that because I think there's a clear difference in the writing in the earlier games where can't remove the protagonist from the party 95% of the time (IV, VII, VIII, and IX), and games like II and V where Frioniel and Butz are nominally the protagonists for the sake of something like Dissidia but who aren't really any more central to the plot or have any more connection to the main villain than the rest of the team do, or VI which kind of has tiers of importance within the cast and Tina is the most protagonist-y, but even she can be skipped in the second half and the game overall is more ensemble.
 
I suppose I don't disagree, but I said that because I think there's a clear difference in the writing in the earlier games where can't remove the protagonist from the party 95% of the time (IV, VII, VIII, and IX), and games like II and V where Frioniel and Butz are nominally the protagonists for the sake of something like Dissidia but who aren't really any more central to the plot or have any more connection to the main villain than the rest of the team do, or VI which kind of has tiers of importance within the cast and Tina is the most protagonist-y, but even she can be skipped in the second half and the game overall is more ensemble.
My argument against “Cloud’s story”, even though he is a stronger main character than usual, is that the story did not begin with his village being destroyed. Which would have been the cliche “this is my story” choice. It begins the night of helping Avalanche, meeting a mysterious flower girl, and meanwhile Sephiroth we now know is puppeteering his way toward Midgar. Avalanche, as we understand them, are obviously more like a tutorial faction, with most of Midgar being about Aerith actually and Sephiroth’s return being the big hook to keep playing after the mini-climax of getting her back from Shinra.

… and also people who claim it is Cloud’s story are the blue haired types who want validation for Cloud being a “mentally ill antifa member.”
 
… and also people who claim it is Cloud’s story are the blue haired types who want validation for Cloud being a “mentally ill antifa member.”
I don't think I've ever seen that sort of thing before. I was really just saying it to head off the types of people who seem to think any party member who isn't in the top 3 or so in important are effectively irrelevant. You see it most often with VIII and IX, like "oh, VIII is all about Squall and Rinoa so the rest don't matter and could be cut" or "Zidane, Vivi, and Garnet are the only ones who really matter, half the cast could be cut", but I've seen it done with VII to with people unironically like "Cloud is the main character and Tifa and Aerith are the only ones that really matter to his story, and Barret is sort like his best friend, so Red XIII, Cait Sith, Yuffie, Cid, and Vincent all don't really matter and could be cut."
 
I don't think I've ever seen that sort of thing before
You gotta be kidding me. I swear I get into a lot of arguments because I never think to save FF7 Fandom cringe.

Cloud is the main character and Tifa and Aerith are the only ones that really matter to his story
Well that’s exactly my point: Tifa matters because Cloud is the main character and he remembers their past together better than she does (which is what proves he’s not a fake just using her memories to larp as a boy named Cloud) but Aerith would matter still for her own reasons even though the spine of the story is how his life entangled with hers at a fateful time.

It’s not that it’s wrong to call it Cloud’s Story per se, but that people who do usually do the story a disservice because that phrase has a simplistic meaning (like cutting out everyone else).
 
I can't respond to all the people I want to, but I maintain that the story and characters of IX mog most other FFs (it certainly mogs X at least). @Zenos Yae Viator summarized quite well what's great about Kuja as a villain and some of Zidane's likable characteristics, but the reason so many people cite Vivi and Steiner is because they have fantastic character arcs which the game sees through and contribute seriously to the main story.
Vivi has to grapple with the fact that he is a construct made to mindlessly kill and destroy; his 1 year lifespan is drastically shorter than a normal creature and throughout the game he has to come to grips with his creation and his shortened time to live, grow, and experience life. With the help of the party he matures, even to the point of being able to help Zidane with his own existential crisis when he discovers the nature of his own race, the genomes. Vivi's arc is about understanding and accepting, though not submitting to, death by living life in a fruitful and fulfilling way.
Steiner begins the game as an irritating character, because he's almost a caricature of his archetype; a stodgy knight in big armor who his loyal to a fault and views the world in sheer black and white terms. Following Princess Garnet and Zidane forces him to expand his horizons and there is a marked difference between his attitude towards Zidane, other characters, and even the world itself at the beginning of the game versus the midpoint and end of the game. Steiner's arc is about learning that life is beyond simple explanations and categories and that to truly live life is to broaden one's horizons, grow in wisdom, and do things you never thought you'd do.
Both these and other, minor arcs tie together near the end of the game as the party rallies to help Zidane overcome his rapid onset intense nihilism as they bring to the fore how he has helped them overcome their own problems throughout the story.
The entire You're Not Alone sequence is easily Top 3 moments in FF.
Necron may be a "surprise" final boss, but he's entirely thematically consistent with everything the game has been saying up to that point and Kuja's separate villain arc.

FFX has the basis of one or two good character arcs and a decent story, but most of the characters are entirely static (doesn't mean they could be written out, but they do contribute less to the story than a good dynamic character) and the story constantly shoots itself in the foot with confusing setting/backstory information or scenes and behavior that conflicts with the character arcs. Take the infamous laughing scene. Why does Yuna have to teach Tidus to force a smile or laugh things off? He's not a dour or gloomy character. He regularly meets setbacks with a positive attitude. And then when Tidus actually has to meet major setbacks (finding out Yuna is going to sacrifice herself, sacrificing himself by ending the Fayth and Dream Zanarkand completely) he doesn't follow through with that advice or emphasize their relationship by actively rejecting it, he just gets weepy and weirdly secretive respectively.
The best character arc in X is probably Wakka growing out of his thoughtless zealotry and accepting that stopping Sin means opposing Yu Yevon. That at least comes to a conclusion in the game with minimal confusion in the process.
 
Take the infamous laughing scene. Why does Yuna have to teach Tidus to force a smile or laugh things off? He's not a dour or gloomy character. He regularly meets setbacks with a positive attitude. And then when Tidus actually has to meet major setbacks (finding out Yuna is going to sacrifice herself, sacrificing himself by ending the Fayth and Dream Zanarkand completely) he doesn't follow through with that advice or emphasize their relationship by actively rejecting it, he just gets weepy and weirdly secretive respectively.
You're really not thinking over what's actually happening in that scene. Just because Tidus has a positive attitude doesn't mean he can't feel down ever. This scene happens right after he yells at Auron about having his whole life upended, finding out his dad is Sin, and it being clear that he'll pretty have to go along with things for now to have any chance of finding out what the fuck is going on or maybe return home. Of course he's going to have some emotional reaction to that, with his sort of frustrated pouting attitude he has in the next scene until Yuna distracts him from it with the whole smiling practice and laughing thing. And this interact is important for later without Tidus needing to use or reject it, because the point is that it foreshadowing the later twists by showing how Yuna is used to using forced positivety to hide negative emotions for the sake both herself and those around her, something that does affect Tidus later when he finds out the twist because he finally realizes the full implications of what she's said to him and feels guilty over never thinking about it deeply before to realize something was off about it until then.
 
You're really not thinking over what's actually happening in that scene.
I disagree. I understand what the scene is going for and how ties into Yuna's arc and backstory, but the problem is that it doesn't gel with the broader story and themes of the game. Of course Tidus isn't immune to being sad, but my point is that prior to that scene, he already exhibited precisely the trait Yuna is trying to "teach" him. I think the best example of this is his unwavering enthusiasm for blitzball and helping the Aurochs despite his insane situation and how bad the Aurochs are. The game doesn't acknowledge or incorporate this in any way.
The ethos of the scene is even opposed to some of the overall themes and message of the game, that is, upending corrosive "traditions" and institutions that maintain an evil status quo. Despite being a focused, pivotal scene between the hero and heroine that, as you said, foreshadows later plot developments, it has no relevance in their later character interactions. It doesn't even define Yuna as a character; Tidus doesn't tell her that he's going to sacrifice himself because he knows that she wouldn't smile through it and would try to stop him no matter what.

I actually like the laughing scene, but only in a vacuum. It sometimes seems like FFX was written scene by scene and then strung together rather than as a cohesive story.
 
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