The Final Fantasy Thread

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You know, replaying final fantasy 12, I really wish we got the original script, where it doesn't have Vaan or Penelo and focuses on the war from Balthier and Basch perspective. I think people are too hard on 12, and honestly, it's got one of my favorite stories of the franchise. It really amazes me how it's been downhill since this, I mean 15 is so dumbed down it may as well be a children's cartoon.
FFXII has some incredible world building. It's just a shame people couldn't wrap their head around the Gambit system and perhaps JRPG fans were a bit overwhelmed by Ivalice's politics? Idk, like you said, it didn't help that they had to rewrite large chunks of the story since the higher-ups decided that the players needed a younger protagonist to associate with. That is proly the reason why Vaan is such a plank of wood, so any player can self-insert themselves onto him. Right now I am finally playing through FFX, and I will admit, after seeing Spoony's review of FFX, I think he really exaggerated the faults of the story. Yes, it has some weird moments, some stupid moments too, but in the grand scheme of things, both Tidus and Yuna are relatively flawed people with an uncertainty of who they really are or wanna be, imo.

Back to FFXII: Rate me optimistic, but I feel like Ivalice will eventually get revisited in the future. The whole world they have created is just too vast to not have some spin-off games or maybe even a proper Remaster with the original script and some more additions.
 
FFXVI has the same art director as the co-director of FFXII, so that’s one of the reasons it gives FFXII vibes.
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I noticed the character designs were similar, so I looked it up to confirm.

I think that’s interesting because I always liked the art of XII. And I like XVI expanding on the warring nations idea from XII.
 
It really amazes me how it's been downhill since this, I mean 15 is so dumbed down it may as well be a children's cartoon.

I really liked the plot of 13 and 14 rebounded magnificently, but 15? No saving that dead fish. Part of the reason there's such a demand for a remake.

As an aside, FF7R-2 is somehow expected to release in under a year despite the only gameplay we've seen being Cloud walking up a hill. Ever Crisis has vanished again. KH4 is in No-Man's Land and everything else already flopped.

I suspect they are keeping 7 under wraps because the story has been changed so much they don't want to give away the goose and more importantly they don't want to steal 16's thunder. After 16 comes out and everyone buys it is when they tease everything else.

Kh 4 will probably get new info soon because I believe there's some kind of Disney anniversary event coming up. They don't want a repeat of 3 and I believe they've already worked on 4 for some time before they announced it.

FFXII has some incredible world building. It's just a shame people couldn't wrap their head around the Gambit system and perhaps JRPG fans were a bit overwhelmed by Ivalice's politics? Idk, like you said, it didn't help that they had to rewrite large chunks of the story since the higher-ups decided that the players needed a younger protagonist to associate with. That is proly the reason why Vaan is such a plank of wood, so any player can self-insert themselves onto him. Right now I am finally playing through FFX, and I will admit, after seeing Spoony's review of FFX, I think he really exaggerated the faults of the story. Yes, it has some weird moments, some stupid moments too, but in the grand scheme of things, both Tidus and Yuna are relatively flawed people with an uncertainty of who they really are or wanna be, imo.

Back to FFXII: Rate me optimistic, but I feel like Ivalice will eventually get revisited in the future. The whole world they have created is just too vast to not have some spin-off games or maybe even a proper Remaster with the original script and some more additions.

Yoshi p implyed in a recent interview they left the door open to explore some more of ivalice in ff14. Which I do love because that whole game is a borderline distant sequel to it .

Oh and Spoony exaggerated ff13's issues too. I took it as gospel till I actually sat down and watched the game. He bitches about nobody knowing their focus but that's the whole dam point of the story. Nobody in the party knows what the hell they are doing and they all hate each other. It's fun. And spoon hates snow but he became my favorite character because he's so stupid. Snow is straight up a jock version of sora that keeps getting his ass kicked, but can't stop getting back up because he's the hero damit.
 
I’m surprised for as bad as the plot was for XV, that Ardyn was such a good villain. I guess you can find something good if you dive in a dumpster though, right?
Helps that his voice acting was great, too. Whoever played him was having a blast

The entire XV cast had a pretty solid english voice work
 
I’m surprised for as bad as the plot was for XV, that Ardyn was such a good villain. I guess you can find something good if you dive in a dumpster though, right?
I hated him till the dlc because he was a scene stealer from the empire. They were fucking cool in kingsglave and just got shat all over in the game.

Legit great backstory for Ardyn though. (Even if they completely butchered the original plot)
 
Helps that his voice acting was great, too. Whoever played him was having a blast

The entire XV cast had a pretty solid english voice work
That would be Darin De Paul, guy does amazing work and seems like a very sweet person to boot. His performance made it hard to hate Ardyn.
 
It's been a while since I played 12, but from what I remember all of it's flaws boil down to:
  • The combat system takes fucking forever to get properly into. What fucking retard decided it would be a good idea to hide some gambits behind a shop. 100% of this should have been available from the start.
  • The plot wastes so much time spinning it's wheels. It's a decently long game with a lot of plot points, but a disproportionate amount either lead nowhere or are re-statements of already finished points.
  • Vaan is a worthless character, you can 100% remove him and every single line of dialogue from him, and absolutely nothing would change.
  • Whoever came up with how to obtain the Zodiac Spear is a fucking asshole.
 
It's been a while since I played 12, but from what I remember all of it's flaws boil down to:
  • The combat system takes fucking forever to get properly into. What fucking retard decided it would be a good idea to hide some gambits behind a shop. 100% of this should have been available from the start.
  • The plot wastes so much time spinning it's wheels. It's a decently long game with a lot of plot points, but a disproportionate amount either lead nowhere or are re-statements of already finished points.
  • Vaan is a worthless character, you can 100% remove him and every single line of dialogue from him, and absolutely nothing would change.
  • Whoever came up with how to obtain the Zodiac Spear is a fucking asshole.
It's also just a very unfun combat system, extremely tedious and unsatisfying. I remember tolerating it when it was new, but I revisited it on Switch and I couldn't stomach it. I heard they improved it too, so that's even crazier considering how bad it is.
 
XII has its positives, but I could only finish it when the remaster added a x4 speed button. I would watch tv while the game played itself in the background.
 
FFXII has some incredible world building. It's just a shame people couldn't wrap their head around the Gambit system and perhaps JRPG fans were a bit overwhelmed by Ivalice's politics? Idk, like you said, it didn't help that they had to rewrite large chunks of the story since the higher-ups decided that the players needed a younger protagonist to associate with. That is proly the reason why Vaan is such a plank of wood, so any player can self-insert themselves onto him. Right now I am finally playing through FFX, and I will admit, after seeing Spoony's review of FFX, I think he really exaggerated the faults of the story. Yes, it has some weird moments, some stupid moments too, but in the grand scheme of things, both Tidus and Yuna are relatively flawed people with an uncertainty of who they really are or wanna be, imo.

Back to FFXII: Rate me optimistic, but I feel like Ivalice will eventually get revisited in the future. The whole world they have created is just too vast to not have some spin-off games or maybe even a proper Remaster with the original script and some more additions.
Ivalice is effectively birthed from the mind of Matsuno who seems to just be in project hell where he can't really get his own stuff off the ground unless it is backed by SE. Everything else he tries to touch just falls through like Lost Order and Unsung Story. If you don't know what those things are, that's my point. This man can't catch a break, the closest thing he's managed to get off the ground is side quests based around his Ivalice work in FFXIV.

I personally think narrative wise FFXII is probably the weakest of his more known works. I'm playing Tactics Ogre Reborn right now and that is quite a ambitious project given it tries to have an alignment system that actually fucking matters with little changes and branches across the story, even making characters willing to desert you because the game isn't too much of a bitch to inconvenience the player for their choices. This is while still having Matsuno's usual medieval political story.

FFXII tends to spin its wheels a little bit too much and get lost on what it wants to focus on, and I think it was done that way because suits thought Matsuno's work would be too confusing to the average main FF audience so they tried to dumb it down with characters like Vaan and Penelo. FFXII took many years to made finished, it was the longest video game development for a small period of time before the likes of Duke Nukem Forever came out.

FFXVI has the same art director as the co-director of FFXII, so that’s one of the reasons it gives FFXII vibes.

I noticed the character designs were similar, so I looked it up to confirm.

I think that’s interesting because I always liked the art of XII. And I like XVI expanding on the warring nations idea from XII.
FFXIV's team has some clear appreciation for Matsuno's work such as FFTactics, FFXII, and Tactics Ogre. There's a reason Palace of the Dead was reintroduced into FFXIV's setting, and Return to Ivalice and the Bozja side quest story line were written with his help. FFXIV's Heavensward expansion story line is also pretty Ivalice-esque, and honestly FFXIV's first half of its plot does the whole political war stuff better than FFXII did (if you can stomach just how long FFXIV is).

So I'm not really shocked that XVI is trying to have a more Ivalice like flair to it.

As for FFXII as a game, FFXII is pretty much an exploit simulator of varying degrees of insanity. How much you understand the game shows how much you can break it, it has some extremely open ended design that lets you pull off a ton of exploits and random nonsense that lets you smash the game in half. It has very unclear design that most people just won't like, such as how unique monsters spawn is fucking random as shit. You can spawn an early game (like before Balthier shows up early) EXP exploit by randomly walking back and forth through some far off load zones at low hp, and then some level 20 guy will show up but if you throw a phoenix down at him he gets one shot. You can then repeat this for about 10 hours and be way above the EXP curve for the rest of the game now, because all party member join to match your level. So you can be level 20-30 when you should be level 6.

Same with how you can get the 3rd best gun before raithwall, but trying to steal from a dragon hunt mark (and an elemental ball that one shots you with firaga) and this gun will two-three shot bosses for the next handful of hours.

You can also casually walk into enemies who are way too powerful for you which some people hate. I personally find it makes FFXII's world feel like it has a pulse of its own and isn't just some complete playground for the player to stomp around it like it doesn't matter. So having big fuck you elementals who will bomb you if you try to cast magic near them is fun, and you can even exploit them for drops early if you're brave enough to try like with the gun example.

FFXII has a lot of weird design choices that appeal to people who don't mind grinding to exploit the system, and having a game with less than obvious secrets and side quests for you to find. I am one of those people, so I like 12, but I get why people won't like 12.
 
The plot wastes so much time spinning it's wheels. It's a decently long game with a lot of plot points, but a disproportionate amount either lead nowhere or are re-statements of already finished points.
They hide a bunch of shit in random NPC dialogue but nobody has time to check the entire fucking game every time a plot point happens.

It's really just bad game design on that front.
 
I've given up on FF12, after playing 5-8 hours, it was boring as fuck and gave up, from what I've read it's basically FF2 if it was made in 2000's. At least FF2 had a more entertaining plot and better music.
Oh cmon, the score in FF12 is quite good. So many tracks set and define the mood for a particular map. Some notable ones for me are the Barheim Passage, Ozome Plain, and Eryut Village.



 
The FFXVI cast looks really appealing to me, so it is particularly a shame that we will most likely only be able to control the main protagonist. One of the thing I liked the most about older FF game is the option to switch characters to try out a new fighting style, test different strategies, different combinations and interactions...and it felt really like you were part of a group, you were sure to find at least one character that was up to your liking....
FFXV had the same issue, up until the update which allowed you to play as the other characters... so I wonder why they decided to go for only 1 controllable character despite knowing how it previously annoyed a big chunk of the playerbase.
 
I liked FFXV but you can see where they cut content.
As other said, the Empire should have had more focus but did not have.
I was often confused over what happend (I played the game when it came out, so maybe I should play it again) but I enjoyed the ride.
Noctis was very likeable and as other said, the VA was amazing.
 
FFXV had the same issue, up until the update which allowed you to play as the other characters... so I wonder why they decided to go for only 1 controllable character despite knowing how it previously annoyed a big chunk of the playerbase.
It probably depends on just how much effort they put into designing the playable roster and the boss fights they encounter. Action games can have varying degrees of quality and design put into them both for player characters and enemies. You can go from DMC to some basic bitch hack and slash which is a far wider range than turn based combat as long as you stay within the same general genre.

You can have something like KH where everything is specifically designed for Sora and only Sora, so the developers know exactly how they can design encounters or you can have something like Tales Of where you have a typical RPG sized party but nothing is designed for them really. If you've played both series you can probably tell very quickly the big differences between these two games if you sit on it, Tales Of's encounter design isn't really as well put together as the (good) KH encounters it is more like a bunch of models spamming moves at each other.

KH is more like a DMC game, while Tales Of is designed more like barely balanced fighting game characters designed to smash up bosses and not used for actual pvp. KH when it actually has a good boss fight and not some gimmick is a more well designed fight where bosses have timings and patterns, to try and test Sora's specific moveset and abilities and therefore your execution of that moveset. Lingering Will or Yozora could be a legitimate Souls boss if you didn't have Sora's extreme amounts of mobility compared to a Souls character. Even in games with multiple characters KH games pretty much just all made Sora with a different skin with barely changes to their properties save for one exception of Terra just having a worse dodge that makes him terrible to play even in his own fights.

FFXV and likely FFXVI are trying to design their combat more like (good) KH where they try to tightly design around a specific moveset as opposed to trying to give varied movesets with less tight design. Keyword is "trying" as obviously FFXV isn't really that well put together compared to good KH fights and even KH struggles with this but they clearly land it sometimes when they really want to like in the majority of KH2 and KH3's post game fights (counting KH3's DLC).

If you wanted to the variety of say Sabin, Terra, Setzer, and Edgar in an action game you takes some risks of messing up that balance. You either make them all too same-y because they have the same basic feel which seems weird given their class archetypes as Sabin should be the far faster one of this lot, you risk making a character just suck vs a boss because they lack the properties, or you just make a combat system where you spam moves into each other and the differences between characters are not that stark or really matter.

You can make different characters matter positively far easier in a turn based system, while character differences in an action game are harder to make pronounced in a positive light as opposed to a negative one.
 
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