The Dating Pool Dropouts - They've got the dream, but not the drive.

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The Dating Pool Dropouts

Young men today feel they must be six feet tall, make six figures, and have six inches downstairs to get a girlfriend—so many have given up trying.


By Olivia Reingold

September 13, 2023


“Are you religious?”

The question made Jammall squirm. The answer was no, but he could tell his date wanted it to be yes. And after the hour-long drive to get here, to a Caribbean restaurant in Orlando, Florida, he could tell it wasn’t working.

“I think we should just be friends,” the 36-year-old security guard remembers telling the girl he had dinner with last month after they met on Facebook.

That was his first date in three years. He says he once went six months without getting a single match on a dating app, even though he pays $30 in monthly fees between OkCupid, Bumble, and Hinge. If you count high school, when he went to the movies with a classmate, Jammall says he’s been on a total of three dates his entire life.

And now, driving home from his date, it hit him like a ton of bricks: Why do I even do this at all?

He walked into his apartment near Cape Canaveral, greeted the cats, and slumped down on his couch.

“I’m so far out of the loop,” he told me he realized at the time. “Compared to my peers, who have gone out with women, and know how to interact with them, I’m too far gone. I can’t learn that stuff.”

He trails off, then adds: “I’m just not going to try anymore. It’s not worth it.”

Jammall, who asked me to conceal his last name to protect his reputation at work, is one of a growing number of young men who are withdrawing from the dating pool. More than six in ten men aged 18 to 29 are now single, up from about five in ten in 2019, according to data from Pew Research Center. Respondents give a range of reasons for their singlehood, including having “more important priorities,” the fact they “just like being single,” or that they’ve gotten “too old” to keep trying.

But part of it also boils down to this: it’s hard for men to find partners at a moment when women are outpacing them both at school and work. Young women now hold 1.6 million more college degrees than men, and in a growing number of cities, including Los Angeles, Washington D.C., and New York, they make as much as—or more than—their male counterparts. And even if they become mothers, odds are four in ten will become the breadwinners of their households.

“What discourages me so much is that most of the women that I’ve seen on dating sites, they want a man making as much as them and they’re making upwards of like, $100,000,” said Jammall, who tells me he makes $55,000 a year.

“A lot of men are checking out,” he adds. “We’re just tired. We’re just tired of being told that we don’t measure up either physically or financially.”

I found Jammall on the online Reddit community r/TrueUnpopularOpinion, where men often vent about the dating scene. On another subreddit, r/PurplePillDebate, male commenters bemoan that they’re held to the “666 rule,” which mandates they be six feet tall, make six figures, and have six inches—or more—downstairs. (Jammall describes himself as a “straitlaced guy” who is 5-feet-5-inches tall.)

The men I spoke with—ranging from ages 17 to 33 and living in rural New Jersey to Austin, Texas—said they felt overlooked in a competitive dating market, where women often list salary requirements and height preferences on their profiles.

To see if things were as bad as they claimed, I joined two major dating platforms—Tinder and Hinge—and posed as a hip, 30-year-old business owner with a full head of hair and a degree from NYU. A few swipes in, I spotted a busty blonde leaning over in a halter dress with the caption, “Together we could find out if you’re lying about your height.”

Then, a 22-year-old, captured in a selfie at her work cubicle with her cleavage resting on her desk, wrote: “Don’t superlike me if ur ugly I already have a lot going on.”

Another woman, a five-feet-two-inch bombshell named Ashly, warned men: “If you [are] one of those ‘split the check’ or not wealthy. . . NEXT.”

That financial pressure is what screws men over most, said Jess Carbino, the former in-house sociologist for Tinder and Bumble.

“The traditional markers of adulthood like buying a home, completing college, and getting married, are all becoming far harder to achieve,” Carbino said. “Many men perceive themselves to be far less marriageable. And in turn, many women perceive them to be less marriageable, too.”

She says it’s never been easy to be Joe Average on the dating market but things are rougher now that the average man’s salary, which hovers just above $61,000 in the U.S., is hardly enough to afford rent in most major American cities. Yet still, many women hold out for men who make not just as much or more than they do, but are also wildly attractive.

While the sexual revolution freed women from depending on men for income or stability, it also means they can privilege more “frivolous” qualities in a mate, says Rob Henderson, a psychology PhD with a Substack on social mores.

“People used to care a bit more deeply about moral character and hard work, and whether the person was an ethical and upstanding citizen,” he tells me. “And now, you don’t have to worry about that quite as much. And you can sort of focus on things that are just, like, more immediate, like attraction.”

The result? Men at the tip-top of the dating pool get everything. And the men who don’t have it all get nothing.

But even the alphas are feeling the squeeze.

One New York City–based psychologist, David Gordon, says many of the high-powered men he treats—including doctors, lawyers, and financiers—fret over their ability to attract a woman, despite their enviable salaries or careers.

“It’s kind of sad or tragic, but some guys will look at their bank accounts, stocks, or credit score every day, as if it’s some sort of measure of their value,” he says. “We can look at the numbers, and I’m like, ‘Dude, looks pretty good to me.’ ”

Still, he says, “There’s this anxiety around—is this enough?”


That’s the insecurity that keeps Santiago, a 25-year-old from Albuquerque, New Mexico, up at night. The last time he dated anyone was in 2021—but that ended when he suspected she was cheating on him. Now, with the wounds still raw, he fears he’s “not worthy” of a girlfriend anymore.

“After being depressed for so long, I feel like it’s a handicap,” says Santiago, who works at a department store and has been on one date only since his breakup. “It makes me feel like, ‘Oh, he’s damaged goods.’ ”

And then there’s the problem of not knowing how to approach a woman. He suspects his coworker might have a crush on him, and yet he worries that one wrong move and he’ll be labeled “creepy.”

It’s a common worry for men in the post–#MeToo era. In a 2016 study, over 95 percent of respondents replied that men were much more likely to be “creepy people” than women. One twentysomething on Reddit, who wanted to ask out an employee at his local pet store, groaned that men are “expected to be the hunters but are shunned for doing so in public unless it’s on a stupid app.”

So Santiago does nothing.

“I’m a very insecure person—I don’t want to burst anyone’s bubble or break their boundaries,” said the third-generation Mexican American.

And then there’s the cost of romance. The average date in the U.S. comes with a $159 price tag, which costs more than ten hours of work for those making a $15 hourly wage. It started getting so expensive for one bachelor, a 26-year-old banker, that he moved from Los Angeles, where rent averages around $3,000, to an apartment in Appalachia, where he and a friend now pay $500 each a month.

“I just found it’s a lot of time, and frankly, money,” he says about dating back West. “We’re risking so much for so little.”

But the dating scene in Appalachia, he says, is “not good” either, partly because he’s working remotely.

“Everyone is double my age and lives in, like, the Midwest. There’s just none of that cohesion or fun. The world has changed.”


Some men insist they haven’t checked out of dating. Rather, they have virtual girlfriends who satisfy all their needs.

Over the past few years, start-ups like Replika, Character.ai, and Inflection AI, have rolled out a universe of virtual companions that users can customize to meet their every desire. One alluring chatbot, Eva AI, woos customers with the promise: “Build relationship and intimacy on your terms.” And one influencer, Caryn Marjorie, says she created an AI version of herself—so far with more than 18,000 “boyfriends”—to “cure loneliness.”

And then there are the real-life sirens of OnlyFans, where its 240 million users can purchase the “girlfriend experience,” and get a constant stream of sexts and loving messages in return for cold, hard cash.

Aella, a top OnlyFans performer who makes $100,000 on “a good month,” says a large part of her job is doting upon her admirers like a lover would, listening to them moan about their tough days or absent girlfriends.

“It turns out the thing that men want is not just sex,” she told The Free Press. “They want sex with a woman that likes them.”

Only a minority of her customers are interested in just physical pleasure, she says. An overwhelming majority reach out to her for companionship, or simply to feel desired by a woman. A “big part” of her job, she says, is tending to men who are lonely.

“An important component to a sexual dynamic is to feel valued,” she told me.

Ethan King, a therapist who “treats 90 percent men” in Austin, Texas, says he often has to convince clients to look beyond the girls they see in porn.

“People say they’re totally happy with their porn girlfriend,” he says. “They’re like, ‘It’s too risky. I’d just rather be online.’ ”

But Ian Soltes, a 33-year-old overnight gas station attendant in Bridgeport, Connecticut, doesn’t want to look past his online “friend with benefits.”

He says he first met his online girlfriend on GameFAQs, a video gaming website that hosts message boards, when he was 13 or 14. They play video games together and message each other all day long (he told me he sent her a “hug emoji” during our interview).

“She has been more than willing to be very close and intimate with me online,” he said. “So any sexual urge I’ve had has been handled by that.”

There’s just one problem: they’ve never met in person or spoken on the phone. Soltes said she can’t because she’s mute.

“I’m pretty convinced it’s a lie,” he admitted. “But at the same time, if I challenge her on it, what’s going to happen? I’m going to find out the one person I’ve been close friends with for decades now is a guy? I don’t want to say I already know that, ’cause I don’t.”

He stumbles to find the right words.

“I’d just be losing a close friend, and I don’t want to risk that.”

The U.S. marriage rate is the lowest it’s been in over a century, with a quarter of 40-year-olds having never married (in 1980, only 6 percent of adults fell into that camp). It’s a trend that continues even though research shows married people are happier.

Americans today “discourage commitment now,” says Steven Mosher, the lead demographer at the Population Research Institute. “The expectation 50 years ago was that everyone would eventually get married and have children. Now, that expectation is gone.”

Already, an increasing number of women are going it alone as mothers, freezing their eggs and using sperm donors to procreate. At some point in the future, Mosher says the family—“the fundamental unit of society”—could completely break down. “We’re going to have children born from sperm donors, with no fathers, eggs and embryos frozen suspended indefinitely until someone wants to add a child to her life.

“This is not a happy future for most of humanity.”

Jon Birger worries about the future, too. Not just for men but for women, who he says aren’t being served by the current dating dynamic—or dating apps, which about half of American “never married” adults say they’ve used at some point.

“Their business goal is to retain users,” says Birger of apps like Tinder that want daters to keep searching for love. The day you settle down is the day their profits die.

His advice to America’s young women is to get off the apps and try “mixed-collar dating.”

“When college-educated women restrict their dating pool to college-educated men, they are effectively limiting themselves to a too-small dating pool,” said Birger, the author of Date-onomics: How Dating Became a Lopsided Numbers Game. “And if you exclude firemen, electricians, plumbers, and other folks that don’t have a college degree, you may be excluding people that you would actually really click with romantically.”

Jammall, the security guard in Florida, says he is open to dating someone more educated or successful than he is, and he believes he could bring a lot to the table. Sure, he doesn’t have a million dollars, but he wants to do “the little things,” like cook dinner for his partner and leave love notes around the house. “I’m trustworthy, loyal, and very direct. I’m also very protective, and I’m not afraid to try new things.”

But still, he knows that many women toggle their apps so that men like him—those without a bachelor’s degree, without a six-figure salary—never appear on their feeds.

And he says they’re “missing out” on a lot of good guys.

“The problem isn’t that I don’t have anything to offer someone—I do,” he says. “But I can’t even get my foot in the door. And if they don’t talk to me, what can I do?”
 
Scott Greer has a really good episode of his podcast on the wiggerification of the white working class and as someone who's originally from a small midwestern town it's fucking bad.
Can you drop me a link to that specific podcast?
 
If you banned dating apps, the same app makers would come up with alternative "meeting people" apps that would effectively be disguised dating apps. And if you banned that, the next thing would be meet-up forums and websites. You'd have to destroy the Internet just so nobody could use it to meet other people and fuck.
Herein lies the problem: these apps are for casual hookups, not dating. The people looking for love are wasting their time.
Face it, there's no putting that cat back in the bag.
Quality women have never used dating apps in any number. They have options in their real friend's circles, so the apps are a waste of time. Dating apps are for meeting people you can easily ghost, i.e. hookups.
 
Is it really success if you don't have this? Hookers and porn have been brought up already, but those aren't real solutions. Really, those are symptoms of the problem: no intimacy (personal) between the sexes. Coitus is one thing but relationships are another. Of course all the incels would stop being what they say they are if they just hired a prostitute, that was never really what was wrong with them
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These people wouldn't be happy if you gave them a wife and kids, they'd just blame them instead, or move on to the next scapegoat

You won't be happy if you get your happiness from external validation, you have to actually learn to build your own happiness and self internally

The amount of millionaire celebrities going utterly off the rails should tell you this. Even Elon Musk spends his life playing to 4chan autists and giving his kids stupid names because he clearly doesn't like himself
 
Every single time one of these gay stories comes up it's always centered around data from dating apps and their users. That's how you know this shit isn't real.

Remember, 95% of the 'women' on dating apps are either bots, e-thots advertising their OnlyFans, or Pajeets looking to get your data. The other 5% are disastrous fuckups. Barely employed fuggo losers, single moms with a high school education and 5 niglet kids, or psychos on half a dozen meds for brain/personality dysfunction. The women on these sites aren't real and the male users are the sorts of disastrous shut-in autists who post on Kiwifarms.

Go out and touch fucking grass. Maybe you'll meet a woman along the way.
 
These people wouldn't be happy if you gave them a wife and kids, they'd just blame them instead, or move on to the next scapegoat

You won't be happy if you get your happiness from external validation, you have to actually learn to build your own happiness and self internally

The amount of millionaire celebrities going utterly off the rails should tell you this. Even Elon Musk spends his life playing to 4chan autists and giving his kids stupid names because he clearly doesn't like himself
missing the forest for the trees
 
you can't cope out the intrinsic need to be valued and appreciated by other people
Yes but you never get that need fulfilled by whining about lacking it.

If you can only bench 50 pounds, work on getting to 55 pounds. Hitting a goal that was previously impossible IS validating, even if it's just to you. As you develop over time, you realize most people lack the discipline to do what you are doing. You care less about their opinion the more disciplined you become. Eventually you learn the only validation that matters is from your peers, family and boss. The more you achieve, the fewer peers you have.
 
Yeah. And they'll conveniently leave out problem with dating single mothers. Firstly, they'll prioritize their children over the man. Also, that is definitely gonna be another headeache as you're gonna have an awkward moment in trying to get along with the kids. Hell, the kids are in an awkward spot as well. Secondly, they tend to be more ran through than the average woman especially if they have multiple kids from different dads. So any bond you might have isn't gonna last and she'll be real tempted to cash the man out through divorce court.

Now as for meeting women that are decent... that is the unfortunate tragedy of living in the west. Saying hi to a woman can catch you a case. See the poor bastard who tried to hit up a Starbucks barista. Its practically why the men that could afford it go overseas. However, as the world gets more westernized, they'll get as tainted as the ones where they came from. At some point, it will get bad to the point you have to go full rural or meet tribal girls.

Considering how limited the options of a man has in general, is it any wonder why they just shrug and jack off instead of looking for a girl to settle down with? No man wants a mercenary woman.


Tribal girls you say?

360_F_574752785_iSITEXDAjVLgxN0a5rD3F7J38IjhrqSl.jpg


I'd let these two chuck my spear if you know what I mean
 
I can guarantee you that unless you're in Shit Francisco or somewhere similar, a very large portion of guys into those hobbies aren't soyfag redditards. I know plenty of otherwise normal people like that. Hell, I am one. Though her being in one of those megacity shitholes would explain it, I think.
Yeah I live in the inner city.The guys who approach me are conventionally attractive and have previous relationships, but my priority is if they actually want to return my feelings. You would think the high population of cities would attract a wide variety of people, but in my experience people are the same no matter where you go.

Being part of the Kiwi Farms has exposed me to some batshit crazy people, legitimately mentally ill people, but it has never approached the actual crazy of the average, allegedly neurotypical person. Mentally ill people are raw personalities, honest, in pain against their will. Normality seems to bring maliciousness and ulterior motives.

I don't care if I seem black pilled, because I want someone to prove me wrong.
As an aside, it seems I don't even type like a woman according to this site's admin so maybe men just think I am "one of the bros" but with benefits. Unfortunately, I am not a bro.

You won't be happy if you get your happiness from external validation, you have to actually learn to build your own happiness and self internally

I disagree.
Humans are social species and it is proven via oxytocin that we can attain happiness from mere social interactions. We empathize with others in brilliant chain reactions of happiness, sadness, and anger.

It has been well-observed that often times we might just enjoy an activity because of the social interaction involved with it rather than personal enjoyment as individuals. We don't need self realization when we have others to believe in us. Elon Musk gets confidence from people who care about him, it doesn't matter if he realizes his own greatness as a person.

Modern relationships are simply too individialistic. Everyone comes in expecting the other to fit certain parameters to even be acknowledged. Everyone is so comfortable with breaking up and divorcing. I think it's ok to rely on others. Babies are made with two people, so it's ok for relationships to also be sustained by the efforts of both partners' strengths and weaknesses. We have males and females for a reason. We instinctively detest incest for a reason. Our bodies crave social interaction with and validation from others, even introverts.

But why put effort into making things work when you can just move onto the next person, right? There are allegedly "more fish in the sea" and nobody is unique enough to deserve honest pursuit in a society of disposable people. Move onto the next Tinder date, don't try to work things out. Don't waste your tears, time, and finances. Then, when you realize you will never meet anyone like "them" ever again, you'll be reminded to stop feeling regret because trust me, anon: "there are more fish in the sea."
 
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No one outside your family and maybe your parish priest will ever be interested in your family. Other people's families aren't interesting.
Believe it or not, in many communities families work together and care about each other. Marriage is a important component to build communities by bringing people together for a greater advantage and higher rate of survival.

Yes, you have to worry about your partner's family. Your partner's family will fight you for power of attorney if something happens to your spouse, your partner's family will be there to care for your children if you cannot afford or acquire childcare, your partner's family can provide financial assistance in times of need, your partner's family is an important factor to your relationship that should always be considered.

Dumb niggas want to act like the rent is too damn high but then leave their homes at age 18 thinking they can afford student loans, house mortgage payments, insurance, and car loan payments alone. No, you stupid fuck, rely on your family to get an advantage. Jews and immigrants have this figured out so stop slackin and introduce yourself to your girl's family.
 
Go out and touch fucking grass. Maybe you'll meet a woman along the way.
I don't want to touch grass, I want to touch waifus. And just looking at a woman can get you labeled a rapist these days.

No one outside your family and maybe your parish priest will ever be interested in your family. Other people's families aren't interesting.
I think she's talking about wanting a traditional relationship, in which case, sure it's weird to do it off the bat, but at some point you do need to get to know each other's families. A traditional marriage isn't just two people, but two families coming together.

Dumb niggas want to act like the rent is too damn high but then leave their homes at age 18 thinking they can afford student loans, house mortgage payments, insurance, and car loan payments alone. No, you stupid fuck, rely on your family to get an advantage. Jews and immigrants have this figured out so stop slackin and introduce yourself to your girl's family.
I feel like I'm the only person I know with a good family sometimes. No divorce, no kicking the kids out or cutting them off ASAP. I have genuinely caring, loving parents that want to see us succeed. My parents (mostly my dad because my mom was a stay-at-home mom) paid for our school/college, and took an interest in everything. Because of them, I have such an advantage over a lot of people, financially speaking. That is real "privilege" and I'm grateful for it every day.

I fully intend to do the same for my kids, too. The way we treat family here in the west, even in "traditional" families, has always seemed strange to me. Your family should be the absolute most important people in your life, no matter how old they are. I had a couple of very elderly relatives pass away recently. I hear so many stories of families here that just start fighting over inheritances as soon as someone dies. We didn't care about that at all; we were more interested in taking care of each other.

In a way, I think that's the most key value that's missing from so many people today, and it's why the dating market is so fucked; nobody has a good family, and so nobody wants to form a good family because they've never seen one. It's all "what value can I squeeze out of this person?" It's like getting a job now.
 
these are obviously models dressed up as primitive women, see how clean and shiny they are?
now look up how they actually look like

If she's good enough for Capitan Pablo Hernando de los Dos Castillos de la Baca del Rio de Dios, she's good enough for me.

No one outside your family and maybe your parish priest will ever be interested in your family. Other people's families aren't interesting.

If a man isn't interested in a woman's family, he's either just there to use her as a live cum sock, or he's retarded.
 
It's all "what value can I squeeze out of this person?" It's like getting a job now.
That’s why we see lots of retarded shit like “emotional labor” when it comes to relationships. Everything has to be transactional now. You can’t just do something nice for your partner, it has to be added to a relationship ledger where you expect to be paid back in full. I’m not saying it has to be one sided but I’ve experienced situations in the past where past girlfriends would get pissy if they felt they gave too many blowjobs and therefore I had to take them shopping. Little wonder why OnlyFans grew as quickly as it did: women are getting groomed to accept prostitution.
 
That’s why we see lots of retarded shit like “emotional labor” when it comes to relationships. Everything has to be transactional now. You can’t just do something nice for your partner, it has to be added to a relationship ledger where you expect to be paid back in full. I’m not saying it has to be one sided but I’ve experienced situations in the past where past girlfriends would get pissy if they felt they gave too many blowjobs and therefore I had to take them shopping. Little wonder why OnlyFans grew as quickly as it did: women are getting groomed to accept prostitution.
It's transactional and adversarial. "How do I drain this person and split before he does it to me?"
 
"Goes to school"? What are you, 17? We're not talking about girls at your high school, mate.

And yes, every single ADULT woman is terminally online; ffs, even grandmas spend all day on Facebook now. If you do manage to find an adult woman who isn't completely insane, she is 100% certain to be married already, with kids, and probably on her second or third marriage even. There is zero dating market over the mid-20's for men and precious little before then, and what is there is solely for sex, not real relationships. By 30+ all women are insane, terminally online, emotionally damaged, lesbian and/or single mothers, usually disease/drug afflicted, covered in tattoos/piercings, or otherwise ruined by a solid decade of poor choices catching up to her. And typically hugely fat or worse, vegan.

Hell, I can't think of a single woman from age 21 to 55 that I've met in the last decade who isn't sporting a nose ring, tattoos, gauges, is a single mother, or was driven insane by horoscopes, crystals, new age cults, social media addiction, family drama/emotional baggage, or has insanely retarded politics raging about vaccines and orange-skinned literally Hitlerinos.

I do not have high standards, I have about as low standards as I could possibly have. Yet my "no neck tattoos, no meth mouth teeth, no thumb-thick holes in your ears, no holes through your septum" line in the sand effectively rules out 85% of all women my age or younger. What's left is always a 200+ pound harpy with an obsession with new age mysticism, screaming incessantly about her stupid politics, and zero ability to handle money responsibly. Not worth the effort, frankly.
I was in a city last weekend and the cute mid 20s female bartender was shocked that I didn't have a single tattoo.

Meanwhile she had full sleeves and more on her legs plus a nose ring.

Not fat at all though
 
I was in a city last weekend and the cute mid 20s female bartender was shocked that I didn't have a single tattoo.

Meanwhile she had full sleeves and more on her legs plus a nose ring.

Not fat at all though
Relatively speaking, that would be considered "quality" these days. It's depressing.
 
"Young men today feel they must be six feet tall, make six figures, and have six inches downstairs to get a girlfriend—so many have given up trying."

Because that's what women have been saying themselves for the past decade saying "DoN'T SeTtlE fOr lEsS" or heavily mock short men. Can't get mad men listen and leave.
 
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