I'm kind of getting tired of "everything weird or evil was a Nazi experiment/plan thing." I mean I understand that the Nazis had their fingers in a lot of pies but is there no one else? I mean when they did the reveal on Vought's origins I was all "not this shit again." Supersoldier programs and Nazis, every goddamn time. I mean call the manatees and look at some other idea balls, that's all I'm saying.
I think boiling everything down to "hate" is a gross oversimplification. She's bemoaning the social and cultural degradation of a multi-cultural society. She states this outright when she says that the other races are grinding them down, ie we could be so much greater as a race and as a society if we didn't have these millstones around their necks. The irony, I guess, is that Homelander is an utter piece of shit, no better than those she's bemoaning, yet she considers him the greatest of us all.
I'm kind of getting tired of "everything weird or evil was a Nazi experiment/plan thing." I mean I understand that the Nazis had their fingers in a lot of pies but is there no one else? I mean when they did the reveal on Vought's origins I was all "not this shit again." Supersoldier programs and Nazis, every goddamn time. I mean call the manatees and look at some other idea balls, that's all I'm saying.
Wolfenstein had fun with this in The New Order. The lead Nazi scientist took his cyborg Uber Soldats straight to Hitler and pointed out all this supernatural shit his peers were using had failed a dozen times, so knock it in, give him their funding and allow a focus on engineering and genetics.
I think boiling everything down to "hate" is a gross oversimplification. She's bemoaning the social and cultural degradation of a multi-cultural society. She states this outright when she says that the other races are grinding them down, ie we could be so much greater as a race and as a society if we didn't have these millstones around their necks. The irony, I guess, is that Homelander is an utter piece of shit, no better than those she's bemoaning, yet she considers him the greatest of us all.
While I see your point and agree with it. The writers clearly don't see your point much less agree with it. For them Nazis were pro white. What they should have done, which would have been more interesting(only because it hasn't been done before in entertainment afaik) is make her hate everyone that wasn't aryan or a descendant of Aryan ideals. So far Stormfront has only shown animus towards non "white" people. White isn't a race and pan whiteness isn't a thing. Nazi Germany invaded Polan partly due to the prevailing idea that Slavs(Polish) were inferior. That's been erased and ignored in terms of mainstream history and the show so far only has Stormfront's animus targeted towards non white people which a) isn't accurate to an actual Nazi b) heavy handed AF c) isn't relevant to any worldview that isn't based in the USA. Britbongs still hate Polacks.
Overall as I said in my first post in this thread, the show is disappointing. It had a lot of potential but it has squandered it. The last episode jumped the shark completely imo. I'll finish this season but I'm pretty sure I'm done with the series after this season. I dont give a damn about the fake scientology plotline they are setting up. The fact the writers need to ignore previous character development(Highie lying to Starlight after the first season for NO REASON) in order to generate "conflict" let's me know this isnt the show for me.
She isn't supposed to be jewish. The creators thought they'd be really clever by casting an obvious Jew as a Nazi.
On everything else you are absolutely correct about how ridiculous it is but according to @Secret Asshole the show is more subtle than the comic book is where Stormfront is an actual Nazi.
Side note, it's really strange that Naxis hate blacks. Their problems were primarily with jews and then secondarily anyone who wasnt Aryan. But w/e.
Nazis dont really hate anyone, they just wanted a homeland for whites and actually were hugely supportive of decolonizing Africa at the time. When Owens went over, most would have know all about the atrocities of the Jim Crow South and about how the whites treated africans on Africa proper, the fact that germany was the only world power without colonies was just a coincidence. People seem to forget that whole "africa for the africans and asia for the asians" thing being a big part of the nazi ideology and how incredibly leftist it really was at the time. It took france another dozen war losses and 30 years before they gave up their colonies.
Thats right the average 1960s frenchman hated black and asian people more than literal 1930s nazis.
I'm kind of getting tired of "everything weird or evil was a Nazi experiment/plan thing." I mean I understand that the Nazis had their fingers in a lot of pies but is there no one else? I mean when they did the reveal on Vought's origins I was all "not this shit again." Supersoldier programs and Nazis, every goddamn time. I mean call the manatees and look at some other idea balls, that's all I'm saying.
To be fair when the comics came out in 2005 it seemed way less annoying. But that was before anyone that used kiwifarms was considered a nazi.
Personally i liked that one guys theory from pages back about making her pure Americana from the 70s and her origin being as an fbi/cia agent specifically to squash civil rights movements. No nazi add on.
Although i dont know why people thought this wouldn't be shit when the comics it was based on were edgy shit. Seth Rogan would have stepped in if they didnt try to make it an in your face evil nazis vs cool degenerates thing.
My god can we just give the guy playing Homelander the Emmy in perpetuity, because what a goddamn genius. Genuinely one of the best performances I have ever witnessed. So many great performances, even smaller roles. The woman playing Grace is so, so good. I keep seeing praise for the actress playing Ashley and I guess I would agree if she wasn’t exactly the same as she was on Jessica Jones. Aya Cash is great, I honestly wish the show could just be her and Homelander, everything else is just me tolerating it and waiting for them to have scenes again.
Frenchie's sob story about the gay friend dying from od'ing doesn't move me AT ALL. He comes back to help his gay friend get over his problem and they have the gall to nag him for NOT CARING ENOUGH. Like holy shit how fucking narcissistic do you have to be to react like that to somebody saving your life. Somebody this whiny and obnoxious dying from something totally avoidable and self-inflicted, I say good fucking riddance.
Lol that wasn’t his gay friend, that‘s a polycule if I ever saw one, hence the demands and irrationality and toxicity. I think they let us know Frenchie was turning tricks back in the day so we’d understand those three were all fucking each other, in case we doubted whether or not Frenchie would take dick.
You have to remember Stormfront in the comics was quite literally a Nazi made in Nazi Germany with a Swatsticka on his chest/cape. This is actually more subtle.
Stormfront screaming being touched by her mongrel yellow skin while beating on the female actually showed how demented and out of touch he was though. This new, 'hiding in plain sight' version is just pandering.
Yeah Stormfront was one of the weakest parts of the comic version of The Boys as it was "Rawr Nazi" real fucking original Garth Ennis. I mean in the reality of the world, who the fuck would actively give a comic to an actual nazi as a superhero? I feel that the Stormfront in the show is both the step in the right and wrong direction as they made the character more subtle by making her a hidden nazi, but at the same time not going far enough to not make her Volk seems to be wasted potential where in reality she has contempt for all Non-Aryan folk would be far more interesting.
When Owens went over, most would have know all about the atrocities of the Jim Crow South and about how the whites treated africans on Africa proper, the fact that germany was the only world power without colonies was just a coincidence. People seem to forget that whole "africa for the africans and asia for the asians" thing being a big part of the nazi ideology and how incredibly leftist it really was at the time. It took france another dozen war losses and 30 years before they gave up their colonies.
Your history is quite off here. Germany had plenty of African colonies that were lost after WW1. They did not willingly give these up and decolonize as they were forced to give them up in the treaty of Versailles to the allied powers.
It is true that the Nazi party TALKED about the world having its distinct ethnic borders with a sort of non-interference policy. However, much like with how Hitler promised India its independence if they rebelled, this was likely to stir up rebellions and internal strife in the African colonies that were pretty much all under the control of the allies. To say they would have followed through on those words and wouldn't have lorded over the Africans (and lets be honest Asians to) if they became the European superpower they planned on being is laughably naïve.
The whole point of the Ennis comic was to make lame parodies of superheroes, whereas Season 1 seemed designed to portray them realistically. It took itself seriously to an appropriate degree. Season 2 seems to be veering into becoming more like the comic, to its own detriment.
Also: re everybody talking about how well done Stormfront and Homelander are, Amazon Prime Video seems to have a pattern where they portray some kind of fascist/cryptofascist social order where the fascists are AWESOME whereas the resistance are pissy, weird, and obnoxious. The Handmaiden's Tale, Man in the High Castle, and now The Boys. Is this deliberate? Are the network heads all crypto-fascists, or are anti-fascists just that fucking lame and stupid?
I caught up with episodes 4, 5, and 6 today. Thanks to an extremely slow workday (not complaining).
4 was more of a pipe-laying episode but I enjoyed it. A lot of fun character moments like Hughey and Starbright singing in the car.
I enjoyed 5 a lot especially when they ripped on Joss Whedon.
Great gore in episode 6.
I don't care about the Japanese chick at all. She's very trope-y I want to say. I hope they kill off this character soon. I like Stormfront and what they're doing with this character. It's not a perfect season but it's not bad, just a little slow so far. Still leaps and bounds better than the actual comic.
hoho whadoyou know, people are pissed after the last episode.
But lets be real here, i don't think we can take Stormfronts spill seriously.
1. Vought ultimately worked against nazis in the war, we know this from the director when he compared sups to the atom bomb.
2. He seems to be treating Stormfront as just another sup, or maybe a band aid to control Homelander but not much more.
3. Even if Vought was in the nazis side once its just a megacorporation now, they want to expand their business and not do a ethnic clensing.
Stormfront is just working in her own interest, deluding herself into thinking she isn't just used by Vought just like everybody else because shes old and has nothing else.
And yeah, the nazi thing is kinda dated when everybody keeps beating it into the dirt but consider that it shows just how dated and out of touch Stormfront herself is.
They're gonna shoehorn in operation paperclip for Vought. Bring in the Nazi scientists, stormfront realizes there's no future in being a Nazi, and becomes Liberty. Meanwhile Vought produces shitty weapons for the soldiers during the Korean war and Vietnam while developing the supes.
As for Stormfront, he was NOT a major character in the least. He was barely in the book at all, maybe for 2 issues or so? His purpose was when things were escalating between the Boys and Vaught, they sent in their 'second best' team to try and take them out and they get absolutely fucking SLAUGHTERED. I mean, he was an absurd stereotype meant to show how cartoonishly evil Vought was more than Nazi's bad. You also have to remember the comic is way more absurdist than the show, like naming superheros after a dog's penis or Batman having an uncontrollable urge to just fuck holes.
So yeah, using a Nazi stereotype that spouts off clearly Nazi shit was not beyond the pale. He was there for laughs as 'How could a corporation do this shit?' And then he gets hilariously murdered. It wasn't very complicated. It wasn't meant to be. Stormfront wasn't a statement on society, he was part of the absurdity of superheroes. It wasn't even to 'take down the white nationalists'. It was just a stereotype of a comic Nazi villain who gets murdered in bloody, gory fashion. Not everything Ennis writes is meant to be taken as social comedy. He even wrote (shocker) a decent, smart Republican president in the comic. But uh, in the end Nancy Pelosi becomes President because fucking the President gets killed by the VP, and Black Noir kills the VP. But really, at that point in the comic, shit has totally hit the fucking fan, and its basically the final act. Point is, Stormfront is a minor parody character of comic book Nazi villains from the 1940s.
Stormfront in the show is a much more serious take on that, being the first supe ever. Also having a female Nazi villain is bold, I'll give them that. But its obvious her memes are just a cover to resurrect the white race. But they'd basically have to make her a secret Nazi, honestly. Because the show has removed most of the absurdist element. So an out and out crazed Nazi wouldn't work thematically. They mention in the show that they have to move her around a lot when she can't control herself, and I imagine PR covers up what she does. Like when she's in the hood and just starts murdering all the black people. Its subtle, but obvious at the same time.
I know everybody is sensitive with the whole 'Nazi' thing being thrown around, but in the context, themes, tone and atmosphere of the show, how they're writing her is really the only way. She could get away with being an out-and-out racist in the 1950s, but she's toning it down, but it comes out every now and again. It also seems like a well-known secret among supes ala A-Train. She knows she has to be 'diplomatic' and hide it, but she'll indulge when she can get away with it when no one is looking.
Honestly, she might want to help Homelander just because he is a perfect Aryan: Blue Eyes, Blonde Hair, all that shit.
They're gonna shoehorn in operation paperclip for Vought. Bring in the Nazi scientists, stormfront realizes there's no future in being a Nazi, and becomes Liberty. Meanwhile Vought produces shitty weapons for the soldiers during the Korean war and Vietnam while developing the supes.
Well Amazon's other series (The Hunters) where Operation Paperclip was this BIG LARGE MCHUGE secret (it fucking wasn't) and OMG WE HAVE TO BURY IT, OR THEY'LL KILL US (lol no).
Instead of just being about secret Nazi societies and shit or just making up their own thing. But yes, they had to shoe-horn it in somehow. I'm kind of divided on Stormfront. In the comics he's mostly a joke. Pretty much all the superheroes are. Their names are fucking ridiculous (Blarney Cock, Dog Knott, shit like that). They send his squad after 'The Boys' to assassinate them as a promise to get into the Seven and the boys absolutely kick the ever-living fucking shit out of them, and Butcher curb-stomps Stormfront to death.
Of course, in the comics the Boys were juiced up on Compound V and could hold their own against lesser supers (but were no match for the Seven who could kill them). The tension mostly came from 'The Boys' vs. 'The Seven' without them physically going at it, using blackmail, subterfuge and other methods. Because it'd be MAD which no one wanted. While working as a Black Ops CIA unit to stomp supes that get out of hand.
In the show, you get to see increasing problems with this dynamic. It was interesting to not have them powered, but it takes away intriguing fights and you're going to have to question how they spank regular supes that get out of hand. I also feel like they took out the most interesting dynamic between Black Noir and Homelander where
Black Noir is a clone of Homelander, his sole existence to assassinate him if he gets out of line, which Homelander doesn't know. The problem is being so close to the thing he exists for eventually drives him crazy. So in order to make Homelander go rouge and question his own sanity, he sends pictures of 'Homelander' raping and killing a family in the most brutal way possible to Homelander and The Boys. He commits crimes and abuses his authority and starts making Homelander believe he has a split personality and he's actually a psychopath. Which is why he is so horrible. He BELIEVES he is a monster. Butcher's accusation that he raped his wife really pushes him over the edge, because he has absolutely no memory of it. Because he didn't actually do it. Black Noir did. All so he can make his target go crazy and kill him, thus fufilling his purpose.
Its actually a really cool concept, where Homelander might not have really been a monster if not for Black Noir. That's really the question it asks. Would he have been so terrible if Black Noir wasn't driving him insane? Thus feeling that he could never atone for his crimes and just lost all of his morality?
I thought it was really smart of Ennis to do and one of the more interesting parts of 'The Boys'. And Black Noir was basically impossible to kill (until an army with DU rounds lays into him, and that's still not enough). It takes butcher with a crowbar to split his head open and rip his brains out.
I think the no-powers aspect besides the female is starting to show its weaknesses. They were meant to be there if supes went mental. But how can they stop them when their heads would get severed from a punch? Relying on 'The Female' for everything is kinda weak. You could still have your cat and mouse game with the Seven.
I feel like that's why things are really starting to get bogged down. It seems like they didn't give them any powers for budgetary reasons. Also, the supes are much less comical in the show than the comic. The absurdity, believe it or not is toned way down. Homelander is an interesting character with the way they did him, mostly like an overgrown child that's a nuclear weapon.
For me, I think the show would have been better as a 'supe of the week' format, where they get missions about supes getting out of control and have to use their wits, smarts and battle experience to defeat (kill) the Rogue supes. So the theme would be being born with this amazing talent and power cannot overcome hard work, experience and knowledge. You could have the threads linked with the Seven as well of course. So kind of episodic with an overarching plot. It'd cut out a lot of the boring as fuck character development that seems to slog everything down. You can make them unpowered, but they just seem to be at a loss when confronted with super heroes. I mean, that's your job, right? Shouldn't you have some sort of plan and experimentation to deal with powered folk? Excepting the Seven, which are basically almost unkillable.
I just feel there's not enough murder. More murder plz.
No thanks, every other capeshit just focuses on the boring af fights, this show is fresh because it has a different power dynamics.
Extremes can only be portrayed with contrast, if you want to make superman feel powerful you also need somebody extremely weak on screen with him.
Seriously, the only time i thought a villain was powerful in a marvel flick was with thanos, precisely because he had almost infinite power and was unapproachable even without it.
And marvel managed to fuck that up in the 2nd part.
Not to say the show couldn't use more action scenes, just without powering up the boys and keeping it clever instead.
The hospital scene was great.
No thanks, every other capeshit just focuses on the boring af fights, this show is fresh because it has a different power dynamics.
Extremes can only be portrayed with contrast, if you want to make superman feel powerful you also need somebody extremely weak on screen with him.
Seriously, the only time i thought a villain was powerful in a marvel flick was with thanos, precisely because he had almost infinite power and was unapproachable even without it.
And marvel managed to fuck that up in the 2nd part.
Not to say the show couldn't use more action scenes, just without powering up the boys and keeping it clever instead.
The hospital scene was great.
I feel that The Boys injecting themselves with Compound V will EVENTUALLY come around, we just have to go the long way around since Anazon is taking liberties with the story. My guess is that Elm Grove developed the adult-stable Compound V in Tetsuo...I mean Claire, and we can go from there.
The Black Noir stuff can still go on, since in season one we see the CCTV of Homelander walking in after Butcher leaves, as well as Noir specifically targeting Butcher in season 2 as opposed to any other of The Boys. He wants to tie down loose ends, and Butcher digging around in the supe baby shit would complicate things.
The story really is about how Hughie grows a pair of nuts and fights back, but until we get to when he's injected with V, he's still a little bitch. Also, the hospital is likely a trap, as it was in the comics.
