The Amazing Digital Circus - Western Isekai that probably will become Hazbin Hotel killer

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Rich_Wetpasta said:
It's just gonna a copy of The Twilight Zone S3E14 "Five Characters in Search of an Exit" but like really really strung out with filler material.
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I have a different theory
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(Link) (Archive)
This series ending will be something similar to IHNMAIS's ending. Pomni will find a way the help her friends break free but she'll forever be trapped in the circus. Calling it right now.
 
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Red flaming panda said:
she'll forever be trapped in the circus. Call it right now.
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If your theory leans true, she tries and jax stays instead. Or they all try to stay and the computer sees that "wow, humans can be compassionate after all" then she wakes up working at a fucking wendys or some shit probably in live action. Maybe Im just thinking how I'd wrap that particular option up.
 
What theory is that you guys have? Just curious. I think someone made some point about Pomni being the "point" about transgenderism being who she isn't and finally being able to be who she is, in the end. Whatever it is. But honestly, whatever, I would like to see them leave ASAP. It at least felt me when I first played Majora's Mask. I thought to myself: "DAMN IT I WANT TO RETURN TO FUCKING HYRULE, GET ME OUT OF HERE!!!".
 
I'm leaning heavily towards the "they're just digital copies of people" theory. We never saw anyone sitting at the computer and headset in the last shot of the pilot, and them only remembering bits and pieces about themselves makes sense for imperfect clones. They can never escape, because there's nothing to escape to. They only exist in this simulation. Maybe I've played SOMA too much but that's what I'm going with.
 
Outer Space Traveller said:
What theory is that you guys have?
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I should read Simulacron 3 again, but maybe something like that. Remember, there's no theoretical limit to how many simulations you can nest in other simulations, especially assuming you take the shortcuts obviously taken here (or maybe only pretended to be taken? Hmm.)
On the other hand, don't assume everything has to be a nesting, if you imagine a tree structure you can see there can be a move such as "one step toward the base (i.e. "parent node"), then one step down the other branch", or even a convergent scenario, where something like "two steps toward the base, one step down the other branch, then one step back up toward a different base". With such limited evidence provided, don't let your thinking get too inflexible.
Outer Space Traveller said:
I think someone made some point about Pomni being the "point" about transgenderism being who she isn't and finally being able to be who she is, in the end. Whatever it is. But honestly, whatever, I would like to see them leave ASAP. It at least felt me when I first played Majora's Mask. I thought to myself: "DAMN IT I WANT TO RETURN TO FUCKING HYRULE, GET ME OUT OF HERE!!!".
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I'm not exactly sure the Majora's Mask connection here.
fishercat said:
I'm leaning heavily towards the "they're just digital copies of people" theory. We never saw anyone sitting at the computer and headset in the last shot of the pilot, and them only remembering bits and pieces about themselves makes sense for imperfect clones. They can never escape, because there's nothing to escape to. They only exist in this simulation. Maybe I've played SOMA too much but that's what I'm going with.
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Yeah, or they never were from the real world at all, and they just have vague faked memories. I would think they would compare basic stories if they had them.
 
Vecr said:
I'm not exactly sure the Majora's Mask connection here.
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It was regarding Link ending up in Termina, once he was teleported there from Lost Woods, basically. I just felt it was weird, and preferred Hyrule to Termina so, eh. At first it was "GET ME OUT OF HERE", before I got used to it. Didn't help Talt was a dick compared to Navi too.
 
Saw the 2nd ep, the gummigoo guy's realization that he's fake is lifted straight up from the og GITS movie from the 90's but it was well done, way better done than the shittywood version of GITS.

My theory? well given that the author likes to bring ideas from other works he has probably read this matrix comic (can't recall the exact name) where a guy is in the matrix when his hovership is attacked and everybody dies except him but the link is still intact and there's no one left to disconnect him so he's stuck in the matrix until his real body dies in real life. Given that pomni is trying to take the headset off there's a chance she is stuck in the simulation.
Outer Space Traveller said:
I think someone made some point about Pomni being the "point" about transgenderism being who she isn't and finally being able to be who she is
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What? I know the author is a tranny but did he say pomni is a trans allegory?
fishercat said:
Maybe I've played SOMA too much but that's what I'm going with.
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That's also a possibility, tho it would be a bit lazy
 
cybertoaster said:
Saw the 2nd ep, the gummigoo guy's realization that he's fake is lifted straight up from the og GITS movie from the 90's but it was well done, way better done than the shittywood version of GITS.

My theory? well given that the author likes to bring ideas from other works he has probably read this matrix comic (can't recall the exact name) where a guy is in the matrix when his hovership is attacked and everybody dies except him but the link is still intact and there's no one left to disconnect him so he's stuck in the matrix until his real body dies in real life. Given that pomni is trying to take the headset off there's a chance she is stuck in the simulation.

What? I know the author is a tranny but did he say pomni is a trans allegory?

That's also a possibility, tho it would be a bit lazy
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I don't know - I thought I read somewhere (I think soyjak wiki) where they jokingly said it was a troon allegory. If they are correct... pfft, damn.
 
fishercat said:
I'm leaning heavily towards the "they're just digital copies of people" theory. We never saw anyone sitting at the computer and headset in the last shot of the pilot, and them only remembering bits and pieces about themselves makes sense for imperfect clones. They can never escape, because there's nothing to escape to.
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What I'm going to say is essentially impossible. I don't mean that under an obscure definition, I mean under most anyone's definition. So don't get any ideas.
I'm pretty sure a somewhat similar idea was used in Aeon Flux, so what I'm saying is not really original, but for this series that's probably a plus for any prediction's plausibility.
This series is fiction, so something being impossible is not a problem by itself. It's obviously not going to make it easier, though. On the other hand, the easiest way to write time travel as an author is to do something like Harry Potter's Time Turners, because especially if it's not a visual medium you just have to maintain consistency with what you previously wrote, not what would actually be going on if the situation was real. In writing, the map is the territory. You don't have to deal with thermodynamics or chaos theory (including the "butterfly effect"), because it's not there in any real sense. If you mention it, its only function is to return the exact result that furthers the story, and nothing else. It's a version of post-selection one would be foolish to expect in real life.
I told you guys, don't get any ideas. To the extent that quantum immortality is a thing in any theory (it's pretty much not), how sure are you that a multiverse theory is true? There's at least two "finite" theories that treat the wave function entirely differently. If you don't want to throw in your lot with The Reverend Thomas Bayes there's always this guy's theory...the_real_scott_a.png
"Everyone knows" that fiction's not reality, but if you really think about the differences you can get some interesting ideas. In a book, you don't really have a camera, but many books are written similarly to a movie now, with perspectives other than that strictly locked to the main character. In this show you do have a video game like camera that does drift from the main character to look at other objects and characters.
I'm proposing a theory that would give the viewer the illusion of perfect continuity even if the camera was focused on the main character the whole time, including a full detailed background with reasonable depth of field. There's no funny business with dimensional merges or anything like that (the dimensional merge is not real, and is in fact more or less incoherent), instead the execution is best described as the camera "instantly" (between frames) switching between perfectly or almost perfectly converged "universes". The theory is able to propose a coherent reason why the "main characters" in the show both are and are not digital copies of real people, while maintaining reasonable logic.
To illustrate the theory, a graph generalized to a toy plot is presented. To keep this simple, only the progress of the main character is portrayed, but it is assumed that other characters are there too. The theory treats all characters the same, and it's assumed that the convergence is good enough that the audience won't be able to tell in any case.
Remember, there is no merge, and what happens does not "look like anything to me" from the inside. Don't picture a Marvel film. If you need to imagine anything, imagine an invisible camera teleporting away (before the next frame) to the "other universe", but even that's too much. Both "cameras" were always there, the audience's view just invisibly cuts between frames. To be very, very clear there is no causal connection between either of the "universes". If someone wants me to do a more in-depth analysis (in regards to subjunctive biconditionals, say) I would be willing to do so "at some point".
The boxes represent "small worlds", they could be small in the traditional sense, similar to the "hub world" and the single attached world we've already seen, but they don't have to be. They're small in a technical sense. No mirroring I do means anything to the characters, I just need a way to "unfold" the diagram in a way that fits in 2D. Both sides of the "mirror" happen simultaneously, to the extent that matters and the audience/characters can tell. I drew the "path arrows" after mirroring to represent the convergence of two slightly different histories, one of which the viewer will never see.
In the diagram, a horizontal line means travel to a different zone (small world) in the same simulation. A vertical line to a lower region means the lower region (small world) is a nested simulation inside the region above it. Dotted lines are lines to sub-simulations or sections of the connected simulation elided in the graph. The graph does not represent a 2D euclidean space, so don't read anything into where the dotted lines appear to go. Arrows show the general path of the main character.
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(80,000 hours in Paint Tool Sai, 99 years + 1 day locked up in a continental philosopher's basement)
The "C" point (short for "Convergence point") is the point where the "camera switch" happens. It must meet the requirements discussed previously in this post. The "hub world", when de-generalized, would refer to the Circus itself, where the characters are implied to sleep.
This switch could be repeated multiple times, maybe sometimes off-screen or between episodes. No matter, each time select the world-state the audience is tracking and set the outcome to the Boolean invert of that.
For example, after the switch is done, we could follow the characters back to the "real world (real)" state.
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This means that before the switch we (the audience) were tracking the "real world is imaginary" state.
Or, after the switch is done, we could follow the characters back to the "real world is imaginary" state.
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This means that before the switch we (the audience) were tracking the "real world (real)" state.
Convergence points can't be re-used, but bear with me for now. Presumably the writers would come up with much more creative solutions for picking the points and justifying the paths the characters take through the "small worlds".
@fat_rat_in_the_grass I'm sorry, no My Little Pony this time.
 
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I think my diagrams might be a bit confusing, so I drew another one to supplement the previous post. The "C" point is still the point where the camera invisibly "switches scenes" between frames. As you can see the arrows of time work as normal and are coherent. Both "universes" exist before and after the switch. The universes never interact in most standard senses. The theory has the feature that the universes can be and probably are different in some substantial manner before and after the convergence point. It's not a problem that the universes converge to the point and then diverge again, because the camera only tracks one at a time, or at least any overlap is hidden between frames.
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In this example diagram, the solid line starting from "A" represents the camera's tracking. The dashed lines represent the universe the camera is not tracking at that time.
"A" and "B" are the universes, in this case one is the universe where the real world is real and the other is the universe where it is not. As you can see the camera switches from one to the other "between frames" exactly at the convergence point. It's assumed that at most the current "small world" and "small worlds" one link away are all that have to be converged, but more sophistication than that is of course possible. To understand what I mean by links, look at the previous post and its diagrams.
I should probably analyze the situation based on the idea of "belief in belief", where some of the more experienced characters may "believe in the belief of" the real world, but not believe in the real world itself. I probably won't have enough time to do it justice though, because of the awful habit authors have recently of strewing their "world building" and characterization across a very large number of unsorted interviews and social media posts.
I also drew a quick sketch of the converging and diverging "universes", but it doesn't really mean anything, see the posts and proper diagrams for authority on the theory. It might help someone, so I'm putting it here anyway. The dashed lines mean the same thing as in the last diagram. The dotted line represents the instant of convergence. The arrow of time also proceeds downwards, but I didn't draw it.
converge_sketch_low_res.png
 
Solid Hyrax said:
bro what
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The last sketch only shows the convergence of the convergence small world (i.e. the "small world" that's shown during the camera switch). See the first diagram in the first post for an example of how the convergence world could be connected to the "hub world", the circus itself as portrayed in the show. Don't take the sketch too seriously, read the text and look at the diagrams.
Maybe I shouldn't have brought up the quantum immortality/quantum suicide idea in the first post, because it's really stupid. Don't try it. I didn't mention it, but there is a theory that rejects the Born rule while possibly accepting Hugh Everett's relative state formulation (i.e. "multiple worlds"). In that theory suicide is always 100% of the time a bad idea, but physics still does not prevent your suicide! Don't be stupid and try to test sketchy popular science "theories".
 
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Vecr said:
The last sketch only shows the convergence of the convergence small world (i.e. the "small world" that's shown during the camera switch). See the first diagram in the first post for an example of how the convergence world could be connected to the "hub world", the circus itself as portrayed in the show. Don't take the sketch too seriously, read the text and look at the diagrams.
Maybe I shouldn't have brought up the quantum immortality/quantum suicide idea in the first post, because it's really stupid. Don't try it. I didn't mention it, but there is a theory that rejects the Born rule while possibly accepting Hugh Everett's relative state formulation (i.e. "multiple worlds"). In that theory suicide is 100% of the time a bad idea, but physics still does not prevent your suicide! Don't be stupid and try to test sketchy popular science "theories".
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Sir this is a funny clown show for gamers please take your meds, also put your pants back on stop gooning to Pomni in the middle of Walgreens you sick bastard
 
Enig said:
Sir this is a funny clown show for gamers please take your meds, also put your pants back on stop gooning to Pomni in the middle of Walgreens you sick bastard
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I swear I'm not schizoposting, as I said at the top of the first post that what I'm saying is essentially impossible "under most anyone's definition". It's something that can only be applied to certain works of fiction. It wouldn't matter to real life anyway, except for some highly esoteric concerns that I won't go into. Going by your avatar, maybe Gwern's analysis of My Little Pony genetics would suit your tastes better: https://gwern.net/mlp-genetics
 
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Vecr said:
I swear I'm not schizoposting, as I said at the top of the first post what I'm saying is essentially impossible "under most anyone's definition", it's something that can only be applied to certain works of fiction. It wouldn't matter to real life anyway, except for some highly esoteric concerns that I won't go into. Going by your avatar, maybe Gwern's analysis of My Little Pony genetics would suit your tastes better: https://gwern.net/mlp-genetics
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Put those pants back on or I am getting the fucking taser, this used to be a nice Walgreens you know
 
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