War Taiwan reports large incursion by Chinese warplanes for second day - Wake up and sniff the coffee Joe!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-55788359

Taiwan has reported a large incursion by Chinese warplanes for the second day running, a show of force that coincides with the first days of US President Joe Biden's term of office.
Sunday's operation involved 15 aircraft and followed a similar drill that led to a warning from Washington.
China sees democratic Taiwan as a breakaway province, but Taiwan sees itself as a sovereign state.
Analysts say China is testing the level of support of Mr Biden for Taiwan.
China has carried out regular flights over the waters between the southern part of Taiwan and the Taiwanese-controlled Pratas Islands in the South China Sea in recent months.
But they are usually conducted by one to three reconnaissance or anti-submarine warfare aircraft, according to Taiwan.

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Taiwan's defence ministry said eight Chinese bomber planes capable of carrying nuclear weapons, four fighter jets and one anti-submarine aircraft entered its south-western air defence identification zone on Saturday.
Sunday's operation involved 12 fighters, two anti-submarine aircraft and a reconnaissance plane, the ministry said. On both occasions, Taiwan's air force warned away the aircraft and deployed air defence missile systems to monitor the planes.
There has been no official comment from the Chinese government.

Why is it significant?​

The drills come days after the inauguration of President Biden, who is expected to maintain pressure on China over a wide range of issues including human rights, trade disputes, Hong Kong and Taiwan, which has been a major thorn in the deteriorating relationship between the two powers.
The Trump administration established closer ties with Taipei, ramping up arms sales and sending senior officials to the territory despite fierce warnings from China. Days before he left office, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo lifted long-standing restrictions on contacts between American and Taiwanese officials.
The substance of the new administration's policies on China and Taiwan remains to be seen but, in response to Saturday's operation, US state department spokesman Ned Price said the US would continue to deepen its ties with the island.
"The United States notes with concern the pattern of ongoing PRC attempts to intimidate its neighbours, including Taiwan," he said in a statement, in reference to the People's Republic of China.
"We urge Beijing to cease its military, diplomatic, and economic pressure against Taiwan and instead engage in meaningful dialogue with Taiwan's democratically elected representatives."

media captionPresident Tsai Ing-wen tells China to “face reality” and show Taiwan respect
Last week, the island's de-facto ambassador to the US, Hsiao Bi-khim, was invited to attend Mr Biden's inauguration, in what was seen as another sign of the new administration's support for Taiwan.
Lo Chih-cheng, a senior lawmaker for Taiwan's ruling Democratic Progressive Party, said China's moves were an attempt to deter the new US government from backing the island. "It's sending a message to the Biden administration," he told the Reuters news agency.

What is the context?​

China and Taiwan have had separate governments since the end of the Chinese civil war in 1949. Beijing has long tried to limit Taiwan's international activities and both have vied for influence in the Pacific region.
Tensions have increased in recent years and Beijing has not ruled out the use of force to take the island back.
Although Taiwan is officially recognised by only a handful of nations, its democratically elected government has strong commercial and informal links with many countries.
Like most nations, the US has no official diplomatic ties with Taipei, but a US law does require it to provide the island with the means to defend itself.
----

Xinnie The Pu's getting a bit fruity again, looking to test Creepy Joe. Watch this go well(!)

 

[Ihavetinyweewee]

All of your arguments hinge on this notion that anybody is going to stand up to China for crimes against humanity. That's why people keep bringing up nobody doing anything about their crimes against humanity.

Right now they could invade Taiwan and the most they'd get is a stern talking-to. If even that. It's not a hypothetical, they've done it and will continue to do it.

Under certain context, China can get away with murder.

Under other circumstances, they have to be careful as to how they conduct themselves.

Right now, you have the Sino skirmishes still going on with India. Multiple countries are intervening diplomatically to defuse it.

Thats what? A handfull of dead troops?

How is that going to look with a military invasion of an entire country? A country which, again, we have a diplomatic treaty with.

 

[No. 7 cat]

View attachment 1869856

My guess is the Biden administration will leave Hong Kong and Taiwan to fend for themselves.

It isn't that clear yet if there will be any change. Indications suggest no real change. However, the Chicoms will have limited respect respect for a near senile front man for a committee of neo-cons.

 

[Snekposter]

All of your arguments hinge on this notion that anybody is going to stand up to China for crimes against humanity. That's why people keep bringing up nobody doing anything about their crimes against humanity.

Right now they could invade Taiwan and the most they'd get is a stern talking-to. If even that. It's not a hypothetical, they've done it and will continue to do it.

There's a difference between very successfully doing what they're currently doing and the utter catastrophe that forcefully subjugating Taiwan would end up as. Unless their victory ends in total, immediate submission with the necessary purges done quickly and quietly, there's going to be a lot of noise. See, unlike the Uighurs Taiwan produces valuable, high-tech export goods, and in enough quantity that chances are you average US household has at least something Taiwanese made inside of it. Nobody wants the long-term market disruption that would come from the MSI and Asus factories getting pounded flat. And I'm not just talking the consumer goods but the semiconductor market in general. Very few places in the world have the ability to produce chips and chipsets in any quantity, and if Taiwanese exports get halted for whatever reason, the world economy is going to feel it.

Economic issues aside, the ChiCom body count will almost certainly start piling up fast since you know, if amphibious invasions were easy Gallipoli wouldn't be a synonym for clusterfuck. And that body count won't be among just dumb-ass infantry conscripts. Pilots, naval vessels, airplanes, naval crews all expensive shit that can't be easily replaced that require a lot of specialized training. You really think the world won't notice if one of their carriers takes a Harpoon or SLAM or two and is at best in the docks for months getting the damage repaired? You know, the latest and greatest anti-shipping missile the US has devised, which only got sold to Taiwan thanks to Chinese saber rattling? Taiwan isn't armed with cheap knockoffs and second rate gear, you know. What if Vietnam decides to start shit while they're tied up? What about India? What if one of Japan's "multi-mission destroyers" decides to join the party and starts launching F-35B strikes against the Chinese navy in support of Taiwan? What, you think they decided to build a carrier navy because they're worried about North Korea? The USA is not the only nation China has to worry about, and maybe if Xinnie the Pooh hadn't been rattling the saber for the past few years they'd be less worried about Chinese militarism.

 

[737 MAX Stan Account]

So, the Flying Tigers are coming back?

 

[whogoesthere]

The invasion would fail though imo. China doesn't have infrastructure, supply chain, or sea lift to pull it off.

Also, to keep the Taiwanese populace in line (if an invasion was successful)would require crimes almost impossible to suppress in a modern age.

Taiwan isn't the Sudan or some African shithole. It's a fully functioning modern country. Injustices would be front and center to the west.

I don't think they could ignore it even if they tried..

We just had a year in which BLM peacefully made racism go away. Where the filthy rich totally didn't rape children, the press didn't engage in a 4 year long tirade of lies, and the kids getting their dicks chopped of for mommy to score some points.

Half the western leaders are so deep in chinky cash and child sex slaves, they could just nuke the island and the MSM would some how frame it as the white mans fault, and people would accept it.

Just because our little dung heap can sometimes figure a basic fact out, doesn't mean the vast majority of people will also wake the fuck up. Jesus, they just voted a compromised child toucher on the basis of lies.

"the people? the people voted for Hitler and Coldplay. You cannot trust "the people""

 

[More AWS-8Q Than You]

Under certain context, China can get away with murder.

Under other circumstances, they have to be careful as to how they conduct themselves.

Right now, you have the Sino skirmishes still going on with India. Multiple countries are intervening diplomatically to defuse it.

Thats what? A handfull of dead troops?

How is that going to look with a military invasion of an entire country? A country which, again, we have a diplomatic treaty with.

Given the few looks at Chinese troops we've had over the years and given that Taiwan knows which beaches can actually be landed on and have them very likely fortified, my money is on China's initial landings turn into a massive disaster. The thing is, Taiwan very recently opened up it's own submarine construction yards and is working with Japanese sub industry types to get eight boats out by 2025, although they may run longer. The South China Sea is a great place to run diesel-electric boats and most of China's subs are generations behind. In a sense, the Chinese have to strike before the subs are out, since Taiwan can't match them on the surface, probably, but an SSK could potentially break the back of China's carriers and play havoc with any logistics or troop carriers.

China doesn't have the sealift or logistical fleet capacity for a protracted invasion and they can't afford to lose the ships they do have. Also, the few times we've actually seen their army in the field, they haven't actually been impressive, beyond numbers, which they won't have in a naval invasion. They couldn't beat Vietnam on the ground in '79 and the whole thing with India is just fucking embarrassing. More for China than India, we expect the Pajeets to be mostly incompetent.

 

[Snekposter]

Given the few looks at Chinese troops we've had over the years and given that Taiwan knows which beaches can actually be landed on and have them very likely fortified, my money is on China's initial landings turn into a massive disaster.

Not just that, but the strait itself is a mess thanks to currents and off-shore rock formations. There's quite literally only one part of the island the Chinese can realistically land on and its right at the northwestern tip of it. And much like the rest of that part of the Pacific, the weather only allows for successful amphibious invasions at two times in the year, so it isn't like there's just going to be an invasion force assembling and launching whenever the ChiComs feel like it. Then again, if anyone is stupid enough to think the tides will obey him, its Xinnie the Pooh...

 

[pwnest injun]

We just had a year in which BLM peacefully made racism go away. Where the filthy rich totally didn't rape children, the press didn't engage in a 4 year long tirade of lies, and the kids getting their dicks chopped of for mommy to score some points.

Half the western leaders are so deep in chinky cash and child sex slaves, they could just nuke the island and the MSM would some how frame it as the white mans fault, and people would accept it.

Just because our little dung heap can sometimes figure a basic fact out, doesn't mean the vast majority of people will also wake the fuck up. Jesus, they just voted a compromised child toucher on the basis of lies.

"the people? the people voted for Hitler and Coldplay. You cannot trust "the people""

I've said it before and I'll say it again. We saw what the elites are willing to do to protect their child sex rings with Epstein. They will go so much further to protect their supply of Chinese black market organs. After all, you can't fuck kids when you're dead.

 

[Vyse Inglebard]

Fuck you American faggots. We were promised your protection and you failed. American word means nothing. Does not protect allies. Just starts Divisive wars all over world and profits on them.

Hey, don't blame us, blame our Commander in Chief and all of the other corporate assholes who benefit from your enemies' blood money. Oh wait, we can't blame THIS President because he has a D next to his name.

 

[737 MAX Stan Account]

Not just that, but the strait itself is a mess thanks to currents and off-shore rock formations. There's quite literally only one part of the island the Chinese can realistically land on and its right at the northwestern tip of it. And much like the rest of that part of the Pacific, the weather only allows for successful amphibious invasions at two times in the year, so it isn't like there's just going to be an invasion force assembling and launching whenever the ChiComs feel like it. Then again, if anyone is stupid enough to think the tides will obey him, its Xinnie the Pooh...

So it would turn into a real life Helm’s Deep?

 

[Snekposter]

So it would turn into a real life Helm’s Deep?

Helm's Deep if Rohan had catapults and trebuchets to bombard the Uruk-hai lines with, and the local militia are right there at the top of the hill instead of Gandalf needing three days to rally them.

 

[LurkTrawl]

There's a difference between very successfully doing what they're currently doing and the utter catastrophe that forcefully subjugating Taiwan would end up as. Unless their victory ends in total, immediate submission with the necessary purges done quickly and quietly, there's going to be a lot of noise. See, unlike the Uighurs Taiwan produces valuable, high-tech export goods, and in enough quantity that chances are you average US household has at least something Taiwanese made inside of it. Nobody wants the long-term market disruption that would come from the MSI and Asus factories getting pounded flat. And I'm not just talking the consumer goods but the semiconductor market in general. Very few places in the world have the ability to produce chips and chipsets in any quantity, and if Taiwanese exports get halted for whatever reason, the world economy is going to feel it.

Sure, but how much of everything else does China produce? Surely you're not forgetting that they're essentially the manufacturing center of the world at the moment.

Economic issues aside, the ChiCom body count will almost certainly start piling up fast since you know, if amphibious invasions were easy Gallipoli wouldn't be a synonym for clusterfuck. And that body count won't be among just dumb-ass infantry conscripts. Pilots, naval vessels, airplanes, naval crews all expensive shit that can't be easily replaced that require a lot of specialized training. You really think the world won't notice if one of their carriers takes a Harpoon or SLAM or two and is at best in the docks for months getting the damage repaired? You know, the latest and greatest anti-shipping missile the US has devised, which only got sold to Taiwan thanks to Chinese saber rattling? Taiwan isn't armed with cheap knockoffs and second rate gear, you know. What if Vietnam decides to start shit while they're tied up? What about India? What if one of Japan's "multi-mission destroyers" decides to join the party and starts launching F-35B strikes against the Chinese navy in support of Taiwan? What, you think they decided to build a carrier navy because they're worried about North Korea? The USA is not the only nation China has to worry about, and maybe if Xinnie the Pooh hadn't been rattling the saber for the past few years they'd be less worried about Chinese militarism.

Somehow I doubt Japan is going to start striking outside of their borders on their own. As for Vietnam, I'm not sure what exactly military force the Chinese should be afraid of from them given the population difference alone, and just lol at the idea of India trying to take over China. The reason people treat the situation as if the U.S. is the only nation they have to really worry about is that they effectively are.

Now for their ability to successfully invade Taiwan, I agree and think that's the actual reason they haven't tried yet, they know it'd be a god-awful clusterfuck that would demoralize their population. Though it's really only a matter of time until they either develop steal enough tech to be capable of it or have their retarded leader get so blue-balled and furious that he tries it anyway.

How is that going to look with a military invasion of an entire country? A country which, again, we have a diplomatic treaty with.

Treaties, at the end of the day, are no more than ink on paper. When a country makes upwards of %70 of your Rx drugs, the concept of telling them to fuck off gets a little more complicated.

 

[Toolbox]

Sure, but how much of everything else does China produce? Surely you're not forgetting that they're essentially the manufacturing center of the world at the moment.

Somehow I doubt Japan is going to start striking outside of their borders on their own. As for Vietnam, I'm not sure what exactly military force the Chinese should be afraid of from them given the population difference alone, and just lol at the idea of India trying to take over China. The reason people treat the situation as if the U.S. is the only nation they have to really worry about is that they effectively are.

Now for their ability to successfully invade Taiwan, I agree and think that's the actual reason they haven't tried yet, they know it'd be a god-awful clusterfuck that would demoralize their population. Though it's really only a matter of time until they either develop steal enough tech to be capable of it or have their retarded leader get so blue-balled and furious that he tries it anyway.

Treaties, at the end of the day, are no more than ink on paper. When a country makes upwards of %70 of your Rx drugs, the concept of telling them to fuck off gets a little more complicated.

The biggest thing going for Taiwan is the fact that they're such a big tech producer as others have said. I own a laptop from a major Taiwanese brand and I know many others that do. If you have such major electronics producers getting razed along with the rest of that fairly small island nation, especially during one of the largest economic downturns of recent time, that won't be a blip on the radar. Yes, China has way more manufacturing power, but many companies already go around them to Vietnam, Japan, Indonesia, India, and even Thailand. With all of their relative closeness to China relocation isn't impossible for most companies.

 

[LurkTrawl]

The biggest thing going for Taiwan is the fact that they're such a big tech producer as others have said. I own a laptop from a major Taiwanese brand and I know many others that do. If you have such major electronics producers getting razed along with the rest of that fairly small island nation, especially during one of the largest economic downturns of recent time, that won't be a blip on the radar. Yes, China has way more manufacturing power, but many companies already go around them to Vietnam, Japan, Indonesia, India, and even Thailand. With all of their relative closeness to China relocation isn't impossible for most companies.

You're right about that. I suppose I just have much less faith in the west standing up to China in any meaningful capacity nowadays than some. I have a feeling we won't really know which way it'll go until it happens.

 

[Andy Bandy Man]

So it would turn into a real life Helm’s Deep?

Taiwan is also a mandatory Military service kinda country, and I'm sure Japan and South Korea would have some apprehensions about the PROC just marching in.

They're flexing, and maybe getting a little recon info, although I'd imagine PROC also has spies in the country

 

[Kane Lives]

Taiwan is also a mandatory Military service kinda country, and I'm sure Japan and South Korea would have some apprehensions about the PROC just marching in.

They're flexing, and maybe getting a little recon info, although I'd imagine PROC also has spies in the country

To add on to this, if the PRC goes hot in a war to reclaim Taiwan, you can expect a lot of apphrension not just from Japan, and ROK, but also from the SEAsian country. Bad enough that the PRC has been busy trying to intimidate them over Spratlys Islands. A hot war is going to make a lot of SEAsians reconsider just how much they want to a successful Chinese invasion of Taiwan. The entire region might not be worth much militarily (most are armed with US/Russian/Euro surplus), but they can still put the pain on China via embargoes and simply blocking Chinese exports out of the straits.

In short, no, I don't think Xi is stupid enough to unite the entire region against him.

 

[Snekposter]

Sure, but how much of everything else does China produce? Surely you're not forgetting that they're essentially the manufacturing center of the world at the moment.

Somehow I doubt Japan is going to start striking outside of their borders on their own. As for Vietnam, I'm not sure what exactly military force the Chinese should be afraid of from them given the population difference alone, and just lol at the idea of India trying to take over China. The reason people treat the situation as if the U.S. is the only nation they have to really worry about is that they effectively are.

Now for their ability to successfully invade Taiwan, I agree and think that's the actual reason they haven't tried yet, they know it'd be a god-awful clusterfuck that would demoralize their population. Though it's really only a matter of time until they either develop steal enough tech to be capable of it or have their retarded leader get so blue-balled and furious that he tries it anyway.

I got rid of the last bit because there's nothing to do but agree on that, so I'll focus on the actual debatable parts.

For the first argument, for now, but as was stated by @Toolbox that's changing as we speak. Slowly, far too slowly IMO, but changing.

As to the actual meatt, it won't exactly be "on their own" if a friendly nation is under attack by a mutual enemy, and one that is almost certainly going to be a quagmire of men and materiel. Japan has also been very slowly but steadily increasing their force projection and logistics abilities, even going so far as to supply rear-area logistics and security forces for us in Kuwait while we were in Iraq. That's a very significant jump in both capabilities and desire to use them from what they've previously had. They're also rebuilding the JMSDF into a carrier navy, and there's only one reason they'd need to do that, and it isn't to hide behind the USN.

As to Vietnam and India, yes, the idea of occupation is frankly laughable, but that doesn't mean they can't cause significant damage to China should they so choose. If Vietnam decides to start burning down stuff and India decides to go liberate Tibet as a puppet state, not a whole lot China would be able to do. Their overall troop quality is atrocious relying on sheer numbers to overwhelm their foes, but what else is new? What little true standing forces they have are going to be dying in Taiwan, and most importantly, the minute national dissent starts happening and it will, they're going to need to deploy forces in a crackdown in the best case scenario, and in the worst case they get a warlord or two.

 

[Orange Rhymer]

Nobody will care if Taiwan is taken over, in fact people will celebrate.

Ahem.
Taiwan NUMBAH ONE.

(Nice negs, APC. Looks like 2021 ain't your year.)

 

[Grandpa Simpson]

All of your arguments hinge on this notion that anybody is going to stand up to China for crimes against humanity. That's why people keep bringing up nobody doing anything about their crimes against humanity.

Right now they could invade Taiwan and the most they'd get is a stern talking-to. If even that. It's not a hypothetical, they've done it and will continue to do it.

CCP has no need to invade Taiwan. If China gets control of the shipping lanes in that area, then they can just do a military naval blockade. No shipping in or out. Then wait for the Government to agree to their terms that they are now part of the CCP.

Thats what I think most of the "exercises" in the south China Sea are really about. China poking around and seeing if they could actually pull such a scenario off without the West sending any ships to scare them off. And now with Trump gone, I think they might have the confidence now to do it, their man Bidens in the office now.

 

[Terrorist]

If push comes to shove (I doubt it will) I am definitely not dying for fucking Taiwan lol

Of course, the discussion revolves around how we must be Team America World Police to some island and not that China basically owns our manufacturing sector and can cripple us with the debt we owe it. Conservacucks know who butters their bread (the oligarchs who sold us out in the first place for dat cheap labor).