Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

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Randall Fragg said:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=shc-APo2XoUSome boomer is mad about it it.
Also laughing at Venger Satanis being on the 'Anti-Woke' list. Dude's a borderline lolcow who once tried to curse an RPG site over giving his shitty game a bad review.
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He's basically a cow who only avoids chimping by making an iron hugbox like Linkara. If it wasn't for the fact I think he'd DFE his baked rambling nonsense videos and I've never gotten this site's video loader to work right I'd coauthor a thread on him.

Venger, who I call Darrick as that's his name, is a hack. He tries to rationalize and explain how OSR gaming is better, but he can't give concrete reasons beyond struggling to burble out due to always being stoned or something in his videos that "characters feel more real", which is a subjective horseshit premise. Especially when you factor in that most OSR and classic tabletop games were a lot more high lethal, meaning you actually had to accept and deal with char deaths and shouldn't get as attached to them. He also is very guilty of trying to jump on trends, as he tried and failed to explain why Nu Wizards suck.

He's just a poseur coomer who is trying to bilk anti-SJWs for his products. He recently begged money for a kickstarter where he just did an expanding crit table that he took from a fan of his.

Here he is trying to play victim for his 300 pay piggies about that guy you posted:

Note how desperate he was to inflate the threat to himself for a guy who mostly was just whining about being too irrelevant to be put on the wokeshit list that Darrick made while high.
 
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@Adamska
Venger, who I call Darrick as that's his name, is a hack. He tries to rationalize and explain how OSR gaming is better, but he can't give concrete reasons beyond struggling to burble out due to always being stoned or something in his videos that "characters feel more real", which is a subjective horseshit premise. Especially when you factor in that most OSR and classic tabletop games were a lot more high lethal, meaning you actually had to accept and deal with char deaths and shouldn't get as attached to them. He also is very guilty of trying to jump on trends, as he tried and failed to explain why Nu Wizards suck.
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I like OSR type games because the game isn't a story about how your Min-maxed Warlock/Paladin slaughtered 50,000 orcs, its more about how the defeat of the Necromancer and all those who fell in the attempt. Like The Dirty Dozen vs Rambo 2/3.

With that said, the only reason I'd say the characters "feel more real" is when you do actually roll over 10 six times in a row, you are not going to send the resulting character leeroy jenkinsing down the corridors. Despite what Jack Chick wants you to believe, players are very clearly less attached to characters since they burn through them at a fairly brisk rate.
(Especially rogues. Jesus talk about reducing the surplus population)
 
The Pathfinder Adventure in question in that list wasn't Iron Gods, it was Ironfang Invasion. They had a tranny on it that didn't know what they were doing and made a very boring AP.
This list looks like it was written by someone who doesn't actually play tabletop games and just curated a list. At the very least cite your sources so you can back what you say about a company with evidence.
 
WhatIsThePunchline said:
I don't understand the dragonborn but it's probably something akin to furries.
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There's no need to call me out like that.

I do enjoy their noble warrior culture.

But you're right. It's mostly furries scalies.

WhatIsThePunchline said:
But going human only won't work.
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I wonder if that's why 20th century and modern adventure games don't work. Everybody loves Indiana Jones and Uncharted, but no one is down to play that. Same with cyberpunk. It has to be Shadowrun or nothing. After my current campaign, I'm tempted to try adding non-human races to those settings.
 
Judge Dredd said:
I wonder if that's why 20th century and modern adventure games don't work. Everybody loves Indiana Jones and Uncharted, but no one is down to play that. Same with cyberpunk. It has to be Shadowrun or nothing. After my current campaign, I'm tempted to try adding non-human races to those settings.
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Ironically, that's where accents and (often racist) national stereotypes shine. Characters need to have memorable things about them, and fantasy races map directly to human cultures. Ages ago I played a series of one-shots for Vampire set during Prohibition, and by the end of it the entire group was calling the NPCs "that goddamn Turk" or "the little Chinese guy" and we were talking about them for months.

Diversity makes those games memorable. Unfortunately for the SJWs, it's not the kind of "diversity" they like. It's the kind of diversity where characters are actually easy to tell apart and not just one big jumble of wild hair colors and pronouns.
 
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Judge Dredd said:
There's no need to call me out like that.

I do enjoy their noble warrior culture.

But you're right. It's mostly furries scalies.


I wonder if that's why 20th century and modern adventure games don't work. Everybody loves Indiana Jones and Uncharted, but no one is down to play that. Same with cyberpunk. It has to be Shadowrun or nothing. After my current campaign, I'm tempted to try adding non-human races to those settings.
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A party should only have one parasite on the team though.
 
Judge Dredd said:
There's no need to call me out like that.

I do enjoy their noble warrior culture.

But you're right. It's mostly furries scalies.


I wonder if that's why 20th century and modern adventure games don't work. Everybody loves Indiana Jones and Uncharted, but no one is down to play that. Same with cyberpunk. It has to be Shadowrun or nothing. After my current campaign, I'm tempted to try adding non-human races to those settings.
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Maybe, but sometimes people get really really really stuck on a preferred system. But some variety in character creation seriously helps. People love having a clear framework to make their character something specific and unique. Everyone wants to be special, or well, part of playing an rpg is being the main characters which means you have to be distinct. When they take it to far is when you get the special snowflakes.
 
Judge Dredd said:
I wonder if that's why 20th century and modern adventure games don't work. Everybody loves Indiana Jones and Uncharted, but no one is down to play that. Same with cyberpunk. It has to be Shadowrun or nothing. After my current campaign, I'm tempted to try adding non-human races to those setsettings
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You can have fun with all humans, but they need a big personality and most people are creatively bankrupt. It's easier to be special if it's something outside the norm, but when you're a big standard human how do you stand out? Easy, exaggerate. I have two characters in two Through the Breach games I'm in. One's a stereotypical drunk Irishman with a penchant for catch wrestling. So I play him up like a wrestler. He always has some self-aggrendizzing tall tale or story about his insane, badass grandfather. The other is a Guild sergeant who was promised a job as an engineer but the paperwork was lost, so he hates his job but refuses to quit because he's being transferred "soon as the paperwork clears." So despite being a bitter sot he does his job anyway. Blows the average "tabaxi Cargill uwu" out if the water personality wise, and overshadows my friends stuff too because they rely on weird crap to make the characters interesting.
 
Corn Flakes said:
Ironically, that's where accents and (often racist) national stereotypes shine. Characters need to have memorable things about them, and fantasy races map directly to human cultures. Ages ago I played a series of one-shots for Vampire set during Prohibition, and by the end of it the entire group was calling the NPCs "that goddamn Turk" or "the little Chinese guy" and we were talking about them for months.

Diversity makes those games memorable. Unfortunately for the SJWs, it's not the kind of "diversity" they like. It's the kind of diversity where characters are actually easy to tell apart and not just one big jumble of wild hair colors and pronouns.
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Forget the simplified mechanics and removing evil ancient aliens. The part where 7th Sea 2nd Edition really fucked up was becoming all sensitive about nationalities. (Except for every single Irish-exclusive background being an alcoholic.)
 
TerribleIdeas™ said:
I'm too lazy to specifically comb back through the thread and see if anyone previously brought up The 9 Swords book for 3.xE, but I've been re-reading it, and I swear to christ, it's got to be the most unbalanced book I've come across for 3.xE.
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While the classes within are significantly more powerful than any of the other martial classes, they still are exponentially weaker than any of the 0-9 casting classes(and equal to classes like Bard that still get many spell levels)

95% of their thing is still "Hit with big stick until dead", they just have added damage or secondary effects. Meanwhile 3.X casters can rewrite reality or terraform continents.
 
Dunsparce said:
While the classes within are significantly more powerful than any of the other martial classes, they still are exponentially weaker than any of the 0-9 casting classes(and equal to classes like Bard that still get many spell levels)

95% of their thing is still "Hit with big stick until dead", they just have added damage or secondary effects. Meanwhile 3.X casters can rewrite reality or terraform continents.
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The classes were overpowered until they started reaching 15th level. By then spellcasting classes could keep up with them. This is mostly due to how often they can use their abilities and how much damage they could do in the early levels. You can tell this was a playtest to see what would and wouldn't work with 4th Edition. Such idea's worked out really well for Star Wats Saga, but it didn't work out for a fantasy game. Tome of Magic was a little more balance, but two of the classes would only work for certain types of games. The shadowcaster didn't really have that issue. If you liked Illusion magic it was a decent class.
 
Anonymus Fluhre said:
The classes were overpowered until they started reaching 15th level. By then spellcasting classes could keep up with them. This is mostly due to how often they can use their abilities and how much damage they could do in the early levels. You can tell this was a playtest to see what would and wouldn't work with 4th Edition. Such idea's worked out really well for Star Wats Saga, but it didn't work out for a fantasy game. Tome of Magic was a little more balance, but two of the classes would only work for certain types of games. The shadowcaster didn't really have that issue. If you liked Illusion magic it was a decent class.
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I have played in numerous 3.5 games where ToB was allowed, seen all three being used at least twice. They were NEVER overpowering compared to the casters in the party, even at early levels. You seem to heavily underestimate the bullshit casting classes can do even at level 3. At the end of the day ToB classes just deal HP Damage, mostly to a single target. like any other martial, but if HP damage is your main MO as a caster to end battles you're

1) Taking away the ONE thing martials can do, and doing in better thanks to AoE effects and ignoring DR
2) Not utilizing your classes spell list intelligently enough. Unless you're a Warmage, who can mostly only use HP damaging spells so they have little choice.
 
Dunsparce said:
I have played in numerous 3.5 games where ToB was allowed, seen all three being used at least twice. They were NEVER overpowering compared to the casters in the party, even at early levels. You seem to heavily underestimate the bullshit casting classes can do even at level 3. At the end of the day ToB classes just deal HP Damage, mostly to a single target. like any other martial, but if HP damage is your main MO as a caster to end battles you're

1) Taking away the ONE thing martials can do, and doing in better thanks to AoE effects and ignoring DR
2) Not utilizing your classes spell list intelligently enough. Unless you're a Warmage, who can mostly only use HP damaging spells so they have little choice.
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Exactly. I've only played a Tome of Battle class once in a campaign (it was the Crusader), but I had more fun in that campaign and felt I contributed more than I've ever felt in any other long running D&D campaign I've been in, and this was a campaign with full casters and one other Crusader (who was built differently than me). But nothing I could do as that Crusader could even remotely match what those casters could do in a fight when played intelligently. I was useful and powerful, but I was never the single mechanical answer to a fight, nor could I outshine everyone else in the party. However, after playing Crusader, I would never go back to playing any of the other non-ToB sword and board marshal classes. For, gentlemen, I have seen the light, and it is the greatness that is ToB. The only thing that sucks is, because it was released towards the end of 3e, it got pretty much no support outside of its book.
 
Dunsparce said:
I have played in numerous 3.5 games where ToB was allowed, seen all three being used at least twice. They were NEVER overpowering compared to the casters in the party, even at early levels. You seem to heavily underestimate the bullshit casting classes can do even at level 3. At the end of the day ToB classes just deal HP Damage, mostly to a single target. like any other martial, but if HP damage is your main MO as a caster to end battles you're

1) Taking away the ONE thing martials can do, and doing in better thanks to AoE effects and ignoring DR
2) Not utilizing your classes spell list intelligently enough. Unless you're a Warmage, who can mostly only use HP damaging spells so they have little choice.
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I doubt that, I've been playing spellcasters since the mid 80's. I know how what spells casters can use including the bullshit AD&D power word spells and how often they can use them. If a spellcaster doesn't get access to wands or staves they're not going to do much in a campaign.
 
Anonymus Fluhre said:
I doubt that, I've been playing spellcasters since the mid 80's. I know how what spells casters can use including the bullshit AD&D power word spells and how often they can use them. If a spellcaster doesn't get access to wands or staves they're not going to do much in a campaign.
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3.5 is an entirely different system from AD&D, so any experience prior to 2003 doesn't matter. The 3.5 community has long made a tier list for all base classes in the game, Wizard, Cleric, and Druid are tier 1. Sorcerer and Psion are tier 2. The ToB classes are all in Tier 3, alongside classes like Bard. All other martial classes are in tiers 4 and 5, so they are quite a bit stronger than them.

This is a tier system where people vote and give arguments/counter-arguments for tiering, and the large majority of 3.5 Players don't see ToB as overpowering, you are in the minority. At-will abilities don't matter if almost all of them are single-target damage abilities, aka what any non-ToB martial does when they swing their weapon, or even casters when they swing a weapon, the ToB classes just deal a lot more damage with it.

Edit: Also, Warlock is another 3.5 class that can use its spells an arbitrary number of times per day, and it is also tier 3
 
Anonymus Fluhre said:
If a spellcaster doesn't get access to wands or staves they're not going to do much in a campaign.
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Seriously, have you read a 3e book, like at all? One of the biggest complaints of of 3e was that spellcasters were just as powerful as they were in AD&D, but lost all of their weaknesses, such as the slower initial leveling speed, great potential to blow yourself up, highly limited spell slots, etc. Spellcasters are all powerful gods in 3e, especially at the mid to high levels, and even in the lower levels, they were were rarely left without some kind of useful ability to turn the situation in their favor. They are actually better at personal combat than the melee classes, have an ability for everything short of traps (and they can just bypass those magically rather than disarming them), and they literally have multiple spells that basically are "I do whatever the fuck I want" (for example "Wish" and "Reality Revision"). The Adept, which is supposed to be an NPC class, is a completely viable class to play as a PC just because its kit is based around spellcasting over everything else, and its regarded as Tier 4 making it a better class than the samurai, a fully kitted out melee class, or even the fighter.
 
The Demon Pimp of Razgriz said:
Seriously, have you read a 3e book, like at all? One of the biggest complaints of of 3e was that spellcasters were just as powerful as they were in AD&D, but lost all of their weaknesses, such as the slower initial leveling speed, great potential to blow yourself up, highly limited spell slots, etc. Spellcasters are all powerful gods in 3e, especially at the mid to high levels, and even in the lower levels, they were were rarely left without some kind of useful ability to turn the situation in their favor. They are actually better at personal combat than the melee classes, have an ability for everything short of traps (and they can just bypass those magically rather than disarming them), and they literally have multiple spells that basically are "I do whatever the fuck I want" (for example "Wish" and "Reality Revision"). The Adept, which is supposed to be an NPC class, is a completely viable class to play as a PC just because its kit is based around spellcasting over everything else, and its regarded as Tier 4 making it a better class than the samurai, a fully kitted out melee class, or even the fighter.
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To limit spell casters I found the best thing to do was "Max spells in spellbook by Intelligence" and make it take longer to memorize spells.

Then by REAL careful about what spells they get access to.
 
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