Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

[BlazikenLover]

On the topic of systems that are not D&D: I tried to learn mythras but got a little discouraged while reading it, mainly since my group showed no interest on it, but what little I saw I mostly liked it perhaps it is due to being a d100 system, I don't know why I like the idea of d100s I bet it is thanks to that one fallout TTRPG I played. I have heard that mythras is actually runequest 6th edition but I know nothing about request, so if I ever wanna learn a new fantasy system should I go for the latest edition of runequest or mythras?
Oh and at one point I read how mythras could easily do different tech levels (like the bronze age, renaissance or even a modern setting). I decided to check the publisher website and indeed they do have a variety of settings other than fantasy, so it is my impression that the system is flexible.

WotC is "making money" but they're not seeing growth which is upsetting their masters.

Could you elaborate on this? You mean they are making money but not getting more customers?

 

[Anonymus Fluhre]

On the topic of systems that are not D&D: I tried to learn mythras but got a little discouraged while reading it, mainly since my group showed no interest on it, but what little I saw I mostly liked it perhaps it is due to being a d100 system, I don't know why I like the idea of d100s I bet it is thanks to that one fallout TTRPG I played. I have heard that mythras is actually runequest 6th edition but I know nothing about request, so if I ever wanna learn a new fantasy system should I go for the latest edition of runequest or mythras?
Oh and at one point I read how mythras could easily do different tech levels (like the bronze age, renaissance or even a modern setting). I decided to check the publisher website and indeed they do have a variety of settings other than fantasy, so it is my impression that the system is flexible.

Could you elaborate on this? You mean they are making money but not getting more customers?

Customers. Their games aren't spreading as much as they should be. Their main market is Canada, United States, and United Kingdom. MtG doesn't do too well in Japan, neither does Dungeon and Dragons (Their cards do better in the Western market as foreign language cards). MtG also doesn't do well in China, but their older D&D rule sets do better in China. Europe prefers their own RPG's and MtG isn't doing well there now days. WotC also seen a few of their products either gutted by Hasbro, or WotC just giving up on the on the IP (such as Pokemon and Star Wars).

They can only sell a limited number of copies of every book they produce because not enough new players come around. Not to mention you have DM's who get the books so players don't have to.

@Elysian not "oil spill" but burned. You can get that colour by putting heat to metal. Titanium does it really well but any metal can do it.

 

[The Rockafire Explosion]

Any souls about who know about or have played Feng Shui, to continue on the subject of lesser known systems?

I played it way back in the 90s for a few sessions and had a ton of fun with it, but my comparisons at the time were D&D 2e, Shadowrun, Rifts, Deadlands, and White Wolf, so almost any combat system feels less clunky than those. You get extra bonuses for describing your actions in crazy ways, so it encourages you to go over the top. The setting is a mix of Jet Li wuxia monks teaming up with Chow Yun Fat gun fu cops to take on Big Trouble in Little China's Lo Pan. It's totally bugfuck awesome and worth reading for that alone.

Hmm...well then, releasing a new Ravenloft splat makes more sense. Trying to pull the old guard back in. That is, if the old guard isn't off playing some other horror/dungeonpunk RPG. WotC has developed the GW problem. They had the biggest dick for so long they don't know what to do when we suck someone else's.

There's no way this Ravenloft thing doesn't blow up in their face. The grognards have washed their hands of the situation, and considering WotC's track record of putting out next to no crunch for 5e, would just use their old books for setting fluff anyway. The zoomers won't be satisfied until the setting is completely defanged of anything that makes it unique and horrific, so you can expect to see Dark Lords who get redemption arcs because they're just misunderstood and pure black and white is boring. missing the point that each Dark Lord is utterly, unapologetically evil and can't be redeemed - Ravenloft is just as much their prison and punishment as it is their reward. Any of the problematic Dark Lords will get retconned (no more seducers or woman killers), and I can't wait to see the shitfit that will ensue if they keep any of the racially/culturally influenced domains, like all the Middle Eastern flavored ones in the Amber Wastes.

 

[Anonymus Fluhre]

I played it way back in the 90s for a few sessions and had a ton of fun with it, but my comparisons at the time were D&D 2e, Shadowrun, Rifts, Deadlands, and White Wolf, so almost any combat system feels less clunky than those. You get extra bonuses for describing your actions in crazy ways, so it encourages you to go over the top. The setting is a mix of Jet Li wuxia monks teaming up with Chow Yun Fat gun fu cops to take on Big Trouble in Little China's Lo Pan. It's totally bugfuck awesome and worth reading for that alone.



There's no way this Ravenloft thing doesn't blow up in their face. The grognards have washed their hands of the situation, and considering WotC's track record of putting out next to no crunch for 5e, would just use their old books for setting fluff anyway. The zoomers won't be satisfied until the setting is completely defanged of anything that makes it unique and horrific, so you can expect to see Dark Lords who get redemption arcs because they're just misunderstood and pure black and white is boring. missing the point that each Dark Lord is utterly, unapologetically evil and can't be redeemed - Ravenloft is just as much their prison and punishment as it is their reward. Any of the problematic Dark Lords will get retconned (no more seducers or woman killers), and I can't wait to see the shitfit that will ensue if they keep any of the racially/culturally influenced domains, like all the Middle Eastern flavored ones in the Amber Wastes.

Well except for Lord Soth, but WotC really wants to kill off Dragonlance so people can forget about the setting and characters.

Also, is King Crocodile still alive? They'll probably turn him into a fursona or whatever it's called.

 

[Judge Dredd]

I feel like my group is stuck in the 5e rut and am currently reading through Hackmaster to see if it'd be something I could viably run for them in the future.

I've heard of 5e Hardcore Mode. Never read it, don't even know if that's the real name.

I don't why getting away from 5e is so difficult. I understand older people who don't want to learn yet another subtle variant of d20, but for everyone else, they seem to cling to 5e.

Could you elaborate on this? You mean they are making money but not getting more customers?

Edit: I was ninja'd by an hour. I stepped away to grab food, and didn't refresh so I missed the replies.

I think he means shareholders who don't care about having a stable, successful product, and instead want x amount of growth per quarter. You had a flash in the pan fad (which might be the wave I've rode in on), and now shareholders demand that kind of population explosion every quarter. If they're particularly mean, they might make heads roll if WotC don't deliver?

On the topic of systems that are not D&D

I've been looking at non-D&D systems myself. I've fanboyed about Savage Worlds enough, but as much as I like it, it's not a perfect fit for every game. My limited experience of games trying to bolt guns onto a melee and magic focused games is that it doesn't really work. Games that have guns tend to adapt backwards better, at least from what I've seen, which I stress isn't much.

Related to that, I've been looking at StarFinder.

One review I'm watching expressed bafflement at the consensus online that the game is bad because you can't play a pure arcane and scrolls wizard and have it be viable in a world where guns, technomagic, and starships exist. I agree with the YouTuber, if you want to play that why are you playing a sci-fi game? That would be like getting mad your sword and board fighter in chainmail isn't a match for a genetically enhanced space marine with plasma guns and power armour, or that your cyberpunk hacker has nothing to do in a world war 2 setting.

Then there's "the gap". The core mystery of the setting (according to the review) is that everyone woke up one day with no memory of who they are, all the records of the last 300 years have been destroyed, and an entire planet is missing. I looked it up, and found it was because StarFinder is a canon sequel to PathFinder, and Paizo didn't want to create continuity problems so they removed all the key PathFinder things from the setting. I don't see the point of doing that. Either have PathFinder in the setting, or don't. Despite the dumb reason for it, I like the hooks it gives for a campaign, as well as giving a great in universe excuse why no one mass produces rare and powerful weapons and armour.

 

[Dunsparce]

WotC just giving up on the on the IP (such as Pokemon and Star Wars).

WotC's handling of the localization of the Pokemon TCG was pretty spotty honestly. Many Gen 1 sets and promos ended up Japan-only, they made 2 reprint sets(Base Set 2 and Legendary Collection), shuffled around the cards in various sets(Most notably making the Fossil set's Mew card a Promo instead)and outright refused to translate the VS set(the e-reader era set that had the Johto Gym leaders/E4 and their Pokemon in them) because they thought it was unbalanced(it really wasn't). They also kept bugging Nintendo to allow them to make their own sets with cards designed by their creative teams.

While I stopped caring much about the TCG around 2003-ish, from what I have seen The Pokemon Company has handled the TCG much better than Wizards ever did.

 

[BlazikenLover]

I've been looking at non-D&D systems myself. I've fanboyed about Savage Worlds enough, but as much as I like it, it's not a perfect fit for every game. My limited experience of games trying to bolt guns onto a melee and magic focused games is that it doesn't really work. Games that have guns tend to adapt backwards better, at least from what I've seen, which I stress isn't much.

I liked savage worlds at one point, but with a group I used to play with picking it up again and trying to add HP I got turned off. I tried to join two of their campaigns and both times I got frustrated at chargen for the same reason: an universal system that hypes up the fact it is classless and thus characters highly customizable ends up being frustratingly restricting, the first character I wanted to make was an inventor/mechanic who used explosives, I had to go into weird science and grab a bunch of edges to have something serviceable, weird science works off a stat so my skill points have to go there, that left me with little points to put into repair or whatever else I imagined my concept having, oh and I wanted to pick the mcgyver edge since I thought that would be fitting but surprise surprise, I couldn't. it sucks that such thematically close options were so incompatible. Next I wanted to make a martial artist with a bit of magic and oh boy, it would have been several levels before I could do either decently. Maybe this is due to magic requiring a lot of investment to get into, making it nearly impossible to mix with melee or guns, Mind you I am a big fan of Savage world magic due to the spell templates and each power source adding its own twist.
Again, I find SW to be restricting for a classless system, I've played shadowrun and it didn't feel as restricting, GURPS was great in that regard and it let me build the character that SW didn't let me (martial artist with elemental attacks).
By no means I think SW is a bad system, it's good at doing certain things but very mediocre at others. Lastly (and I know this isn't the fault of the system) It didn't help that group kept blabbering about how great the system is and how much they liked it, yet every fucking week I would hear them whine about the lethality of the system. Which struck me as odd since when I played the PCs weren't going down to extras all the damn time, makes me wonder if their retard of a DM is running extras as wildcards instead.

On the topic of magic and guns: I've found a system that has the two coexist just fine: Ironclaw, of course it is early firearms so it is easier to balance. I really like the way they are done in that system, they deal a ton of damage but take forever to reload, so realistically they are something you either use when you have a massive distance between you and the target or something you fire, holster and then you draw your melee weapon (or have a belt with 4 pistols, pirate style). The system gets a bad rep for being made by furries and the shitty art, yet I found it much better than a lot of the trash I was recommended, the combat is fast, lethal and engaging, magic is a bit weird but interest and firearms are both useable and balanced, I also feel it did the whole "dice as attribute" waaaaaaay better than savage worlds, on virtue of rolling dice pool rather than a single dice.

 

[Judge Dredd]

Ironclaw

I wanted to try Ironclaw because I liked the setting (I don't care for generic fantasy). I also want to play Jadeclaw, but furries and not D&D, so no one entertains the idea. I wonder if I should try my group with it.

I want to try Hollow Earth Expedition, another dice pool game, but no one likes the setting (Indiana Jones pulp heroes).

I had to go into weird science and grab a bunch of edges to have something serviceable, weird science works off a stat so my skill points have to go there, that left me with little points to put into repair or whatever else I imagined my concept having, oh and I wanted to pick the mcgyver edge since I thought that would be fitting but surprise surprise, I couldn't.

I don't see why it wouldn't work. Weird Science, Martial Artist, and MacGyver are 3 edges. One to start, two from Hinderances, unless you want to wait until next level. With the 15 skill points from modern setting, the only limiting factor I can see is attributes (I find 5 starting attributes too strict).

It makes me suspect the DM isn't using setting rules like Born a Hero and High Adventure, or you're expecting to have a high end build at level 0.

add HP I got turned off

Wait, what?

Why would they add HP? Extra's are meant to go down quick. PCs have 3 wounds and means to mitigate (soak rolls, edges). If they wanted to reduce lethality, use setting rules like Heroes Never Die and Wound Cap. You want something in between, extra's damage doesn't explode.

I can understand adding extra HP to bosses, but I didn't get that impression from what you said.

SW is not to everyone's taste, but you make it sound like they didn't understand the game, or they were playing a version older than I know.

 

[Corn Flakes]

Back to the Ravenloft thing, I wish this was just a joke but... how long do you guys think it's going to take for people to start complaining that Strahd's castle isn't wheelchair accessible, or that not enough of his lackeys are LBGT or POC?

 

[KimCoppolaAficionado]

Back to the Ravenloft thing, I wish this was just a joke but... how long do you guys think it's going to take for people to start complaining that Strahd's castle isn't wheelchair accessible, or that not enough of his lackeys are LBGT or POC?

Complaints like that have doubtless already been made somewhere. The question is- will the next edit to CoS wuss out and listen to them?

 

[BlazikenLover]

I wanted to try Ironclaw because I liked the setting (I don't care for generic fantasy). I also want to play Jadeclaw, but furries and not D&D, so no one entertains the idea. I wonder if I should try my group with it.

I want to try Hollow Earth Expedition, another dice pool game, but no one likes the setting (Indiana Jones pulp heroes).


I don't see why it wouldn't work. Weird Science, Martial Artist, and MacGyver are 3 edges. One to start, two from Hinderances, unless you want to wait until next level. With the 15 skill points from modern setting, the only limiting factor I can see is attributes (I find 5 starting attributes too strict).

It makes me suspect the DM isn't using setting rules like Born a Hero and High Adventure, or you're expecting to have a high end build at level 0.


Wait, what?

Why would they add HP? Extra's are meant to go down quick. PCs have 3 wounds and means to mitigate (soak rolls, edges). If they wanted to reduce lethality, use setting rules like Heroes Never Die and Wound Cap. You want something in between, extra's damage doesn't explode.

I can understand adding extra HP to bosses, but I didn't get that impression from what you said.

SW is not to everyone's taste, but you make it sound like they didn't understand the game, or they were playing a version older than I know.

Like I said, my first time around I enjoyed it.
The weird science character wasn't gonna be a martial artist, I admit the weird science guy wasn't so bad, the martial artist who I wanted to have spells? that one was looking really bad.
Edit: I agree, the attributes felt restricting.
As for the HP thing, yes it is as retarded as it sounds, I told them they were wasting their time and effort and to use another system, they ignored me. I really don't get their issue with lethality, when I played none of us was going down that often, so I suspect the dipshit DM didn't read the book or is making every extra stronger than average (and thus can fuck the player's shit up), sadly I cannot spectate their sessions so i cannot see firsthand what they are doing wrong.
So I'll ask you, is SW that lethal towards players (wildcards), can an extra really explode their a dozen times and fuck them up?

 

[EnemyStand]

Back to the Ravenloft thing, I wish this was just a joke but... how long do you guys think it's going to take for people to start complaining that Strahd's castle isn't wheelchair accessible, or that not enough of his lackeys are LBGT or POC?

Well, I don't know if it'll go quite that far, but you know there'll be friendship endings for each dark lord (except possible toxically masculine ones like Drakov). Azalin will be denounced as a dig on autists, Tatyana will need to be a strong black woman who don't need no man, and Poison Bitch (forget her name) will be a poor uwu girl under her domineering brother's thumb (when it's the other way around).

 

[Judge Dredd]

So I'll ask you, is SW that lethal towards players (wildcards), can an extra really explode their a dozen times and fuck them up?

Yes. It doesn't happen often, but it can happen.

There are a few reasons I'll defend it.

First, it's a blade that cuts both ways. I've had a player get downed with a single shotgun blast, but I've had players gun down a boss in a single turn. I could complain about them ruining the cool encounter I prepared, but when the players loved it when it happened. These moments are almost always highlights we talk about more than a year later.

Second, it stops the players getting complacent. There's a problem in D&D and other games where HP and damage scale to the point where a goblin with a knife literally can't kill a PC unless the goblin spends a dozen turns rolling well. With SW, there's always that 1/1000 chance he gets the paladin in the jugular. It also adds realism to the game, since James Bond is just as susceptible to a headshot as anyone else.

Third, I think Savage Worlds works best when either using action movie logic, or as a horror game. In an action movie setting, rules like Heroes Never Die and soak rolls allow PCs to survive death. In a horror setting, any of the monsters can fuck up the PCs in no time flat if they're careless.

 

[The Rockafire Explosion]

Well, I don't know if it'll go quite that far, but you know there'll be friendship endings for each dark lord (except possible toxically masculine ones like Drakov). Azalin will be denounced as a dig on autists, Tatyana will need to be a strong black woman who don't need no man, and Poison Bitch (forget her name) will be a poor uwu girl under her domineering brother's thumb (when it's the other way around).

So I did a little digging, and sure enough, they're changing every one of the announced Domains and Dark Lords around, because they worked with sensitivity consultants and they want horror to be all ages, like Scooby Doo and Ghostbusters. Dementlieu is now going to be a "Grimm's fairy tale" and Dominic d'Honoaire is out, probably because kids can't stand charm spells, they're mind rape after all. Viktor Mordenheim and Adam have been inexplicably gender flipped, for, uh reasons? Drakov also looks to have been genderbent, because we can't have toxic masculinity in our very evil Dark Lords - that's a line even the Dark Powers won't cross. Baron Kharkov is out of Valachan, and it now has roaming packs of displacer beasts instead of werepanthers; why they feel the need to change this up I have no idea, especially since Ravenloft is designed for domains to come and go as needed for story reasons. And they've even announced a new domain, based on Indian mythology (dot, not feather), so I'm sure that'll go over well. I'm really curious what will happen to Hazlik, the gay Red Wizard who has tattoos branding him as a woman, but if he makes it in I'm guessing he'll be the most stunning and brave Dark Lord of them all. It's a long shot, but if they put in Anton Misroi, the stereotypical white, slave-owning, voodoo practicing plantation owner, I'll shit myself laughing at the field day Twitter will have with that.

Well except for Lord Soth, but WotC really wants to kill off Dragonlance so people can forget about the setting and characters.

From what I know, Weis and Hickman always hated Soth in Ravenloft, and got him removed (in canon, I think he's the only Dark Lord to have escaped), so the 3e book refers to him as "the Knight of the Black Rose" and it's been changed up at some point so that it's now run by some half-Vistani werebadger, which uh what the fuck? Guess the vampire kender are still around, though, so it's the edgy rogue pickpocket's wet dream domain.

 

[Anonymus Fluhre]

So I did a little digging, and sure enough, they're changing every one of the announced Domains and Dark Lords around, because they worked with sensitivity consultants and they want horror to be all ages, like Scooby Doo and Ghostbusters. Dementlieu is now going to be a "Grimm's fairy tale" and Dominic d'Honoaire is out, probably because kids can't stand charm spells, they're mind rape after all. Viktor Mordenheim and Adam have been inexplicably gender flipped, for, uh reasons? Drakov also looks to have been genderbent, because we can't have toxic masculinity in our very evil Dark Lords - that's a line even the Dark Powers won't cross. Baron Kharkov is out of Valachan, and it now has roaming packs of displacer beasts instead of werepanthers; why they feel the need to change this up I have no idea, especially since Ravenloft is designed for domains to come and go as needed for story reasons. And they've even announced a new domain, based on Indian mythology (dot, not feather), so I'm sure that'll go over well. I'm really curious what will happen to Hazlik, the gay Red Wizard who has tattoos branding him as a woman, but if he makes it in I'm guessing he'll be the most stunning and brave Dark Lord of them all. It's a long shot, but if they put in Anton Misroi, the stereotypical white, slave-owning, voodoo practicing plantation owner, I'll shit myself laughing at the field day Twitter will have with that.

They already have India based area, its the rakasha one. I'm guessing no one at WotC bother reading lore now days. Hazlik is a literal cuck, so that's going to be completely change.

 

[Gingervitis]

This reads like a parody of modern WotC.

 

[EnemyStand]

So I did a little digging, and sure enough, they're changing every one of the announced Domains and Dark Lords around, because they worked with sensitivity consultants and they want horror to be all ages, like Scooby Doo and Ghostbusters. Dementlieu is now going to be a "Grimm's fairy tale" and Dominic d'Honoaire is out, probably because kids can't stand charm spells, they're mind rape after all. Viktor Mordenheim and Adam have been inexplicably gender flipped, for, uh reasons? Drakov also looks to have been genderbent, because we can't have toxic masculinity in our very evil Dark Lords - that's a line even the Dark Powers won't cross. Baron Kharkov is out of Valachan, and it now has roaming packs of displacer beasts instead of werepanthers; why they feel the need to change this up I have no idea, especially since Ravenloft is designed for domains to come and go as needed for story reasons. And they've even announced a new domain, based on Indian mythology (dot, not feather), so I'm sure that'll go over well. I'm really curious what will happen to Hazlik, the gay Red Wizard who has tattoos branding him as a woman, but if he makes it in I'm guessing he'll be the most stunning and brave Dark Lord of them all. It's a long shot, but if they put in Anton Misroi, the stereotypical white, slave-owning, voodoo practicing plantation owner, I'll shit myself laughing at the field day Twitter will have with that.

Actually, it makes sense they made Drakov a woman if they want "all ages" horror. They're trying to prove girls are just as badass as guys It's still stupid as hell. It looks like they're just remaking the Domains to be pure punishment instead of it being a poison apple. So of course it got shitted up by these sensitivity experts. Well, we still have the old splats.

 

[Capsaicin Addict]

From what I know, Weis and Hickman always hated Soth in Ravenloft, and got him removed (in canon, I think he's the only Dark Lord to have escaped), so the 3e book refers to him as "the Knight of the Black Rose" and it's been changed up at some point so that it's now run by some half-Vistani werebadger, which uh what the fuck? Guess the vampire kender are still around, though, so it's the edgy rogue pickpocket's wet dream domain.

Yeah, there was a massive shitstorm over Lord Soth getting dragged into Ravenloft, primarily from Weis.

I thought it went a little over the top -- if I'd been in Weis's shoes, I'd have politely noted I needed Soth for some upcoming stories, and would like to have him back on Krynn eventually.

Still, the Cliff Notes of Soth's escape are somewhat amusing. Because canonically, Soth has always had this weird trace of guilt (which, of course, makes him even crankier than most death knights), he wound up just sitting on his ass in his stronghold in Ravenloft and refusing to do anything. Like, literally 'fuck you Dark Powers, I refuse to be baited, I refuse to complain, I'm just going to sit here and you can't do jack shit to me because I'm already damned and it's all my fault.'

At which point, the Dark Powers gave a collective shrug, and tossed him back to Krynn, presumably before Chemosh or Takhisis came looking for one of their favorite minions.

I have no idea why this amuses me, but then I am somewhat twitchy on the whole 'Dark Powers act with intent to seize evil lords of sufficient power'. It'd be one thing if the Demiplane of Dread was like a black hole, and doing enough bad shit created enough moral gravity to drag you into it. But the whole 'stealing evil lords' strikes me as a great way to get the attention of various demon lords, archdevils, greater evil gods, and Nyarlathotep who might wonder where that last project went off to.

 

[Corn Flakes]

I would like to call for a moment of silence for Ravenloft's balls, so tragically removed by Wizards of the Coast in a futile attempt to bag themselves a demographic who's infamous for complaining a lot and only purchasing overpriced plastic crap and watered-down coffee. Anyone feels like giving these poor balls an eulogy?

Yeah, there was a massive shitstorm over Lord Soth getting dragged into Ravenloft, primarily from Weis.

I thought it went a little over the top -- if I'd been in Weis's shoes, I'd have politely noted I needed Soth for some upcoming stories, and would like to have him back on Krynn eventually.

Still, the Cliff Notes of Soth's escape are somewhat amusing. Because canonically, Soth has always had this weird trace of guilt (which, of course, makes him even crankier than most death knights), he wound up just sitting on his ass in his stronghold in Ravenloft and refusing to do anything. Like, literally 'fuck you Dark Powers, I refuse to be baited, I refuse to complain, I'm just going to sit here and you can't do jack shit to me because I'm already damned and it's all my fault.'

At which point, the Dark Powers gave a collective shrug, and tossed him back to Krynn, presumably before Chemosh or Takhisis came looking for one of their favorite minions.

I have no idea why this amuses me, but then I am somewhat twitchy on the whole 'Dark Powers act with intent to seize evil lords of sufficient power'. It'd be one thing if the Demiplane of Dread was like a black hole, and doing enough bad shit created enough moral gravity to drag you into it. But the whole 'stealing evil lords' strikes me as a great way to get the attention of various demon lords, archdevils, greater evil gods, and Nyarlathotep who might wonder where that last project went off to.

Well, I know it's amusing to me because that's exactly what a miffed player character would do.

 

[Capsaicin Addict]

Well, I know it's amusing to me because that's exactly what a miffed player character would do.

It does feel like a player who's refusing to be railroaded any more.