Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

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So https://chat.openai.com/chat can answer rules questions about Pathfinder. I went on a mini vacation to play games with friends a few weeks back and said friends really enjoy arguing about rules, during game, wasting my motherfucking time. We're talking 15 minute pointless back and forths over things that have nothing to do with the game.

I'm not sure if I want to give them access to this or to let them continue to rot in the hell they have created for themselves.
 
Here's the thing; I'm not actually sure if the guy is actually Native American. For starters, he claims that he's Cherokee, which is by far the easiest tribe to claim citizenship with; I also don't think he's ever actually shown any legitimate confirmation of citizenship. Secondly, there has been a rather large rise in people claiming to be "trans-racial"; i.e., they claim to be another race than what they actually biologically are. Thirdly, as @RA-5C Vigilante mentioned, there's a crippling lack of research into actual Native customs and such; if anything, a lot of the shit I read sounds more Neopaganism than Native, which is backed up by a few of the C&C players I found mentioned fighting against the "Patriarchy".
He also looks like this;

1675892506731.png
I've seen dozens of people not entirely unlike him in the various areas around Liverpool. I would put extensive money that none of them have any actual Native American heritage and as such would feel similarly comfortable about him.
 
I thought of an idea for either a ttrpg or video game about Native American cultures. You play as a Native American in the 1500s-1600s. You come back from a long journey to your village only to discover that it has been abandoned.

You can tell that your people weren’t attacked but that many are dead. You find makeshift burials far away from the village as if something was wrong with the bodies. You continue to travel and find more abandoned villages. You find people with strange red spots on their bodies, begging you to stay away from them.

You are now alone in this world that appears to be dead. You must rely on your survival knowledge and skills to perhaps find out where your people have gone and to one day join them.

I’ve always been fascinated by how natives would have reacted to the destructive nature of the old world diseases and it would be an interesting post-apocalyptic setting as you would have no idea what happened besides people getting sick and dying. Religious fanatics doing all manner of things to appease the spirits, tribes blaming outsiders and attacking anyone they see, the encroaching return of nature, and the possibility of meeting Europeans.

Plus, you could incorporate native survival and cultural practices to demonstrate how these cultures lived pre-contact and the usefulness of those practices in everyday life. We all know that Native Americans hunted for food, but how did they hunt, what strategies did they use and why were they successful? I think that gameifying those practices would go a long way for non-native people to understand native cultures than just placing those practices in a cyberpunk setting.
 
To be honest, the full quote does not make him sound better.

Its not supposed to. But its to get any shitlords in this thread to be making the right arguments.

Completely untrue. I knew plenty of black people and women who played D&D and other tabletop games. I played with them and was among their number. Now, that doesn't mean you can sustain a hobby on that demographic alone. But it does put to lie this idea that Black people and women weren't playing D&D prior to Critical Role or the rise of wokism. Hell, that infamous Dungeons & Dragon commercial from back in the day (you know the one where the players became animated avatars of their characters) had a girl as one of the players.

Girls were slightly easier to get into the group. OTOH, my most stable groups were 2 to 3 married couples.

I am not saying no blacks play D&D. And if a black guy (or girl) wanted to play D&D they're welcome at my table regardless of melanin content; not the color of their skin, but the content of their character sheet and all the faggot kumbaya shit.

But my experience trying to recruit even black nerds was they viewed playing playing games that weren't on XBOX as dumb, and having talked to black people from over the socioeconomic spectrum, there was a definite undercurrent of not wanting to be judged by the street niggas as seeming 'soft' or 'white', and a sort of discouragement of imagination.

tl;dr- just because 95% of blacks don't want to play D&D doesn't mean that I'm going to turn someone in the 5% away if they'll fit in at my table.
 
What makes this doubly hilarious is that when Mr. Welch adapted over the Native expy culture from Mystara to fifth edition, he did a much better job by going to people from those cultures and asking “So what does cool look like to you?”
I’m gonna AKSHULLY you real quick and mention that they weren’t just adapted, but changed wholesale to make them actually good.

The Native expies (the Atruaghin Clans) were part of the Mystara Gazetteer series, which was a series of books that detailed each country in The Known World (the main part of Mystara, probably their equivalent of the Sword Coast). This book was a famously bad rush job (thanks Lorraine Williams), and it shows. The isolated nature of the plateau they lived on, the tribes living in perfect harmony (save the evil aztec Tiger Clan), and their god-given rules against leaving the plateau or infighting meant that there was very little in the way of plot hooks. Plus, while giving bonuses to Strength and Constitution and penalties to Intelligence and Wisdom is ok for orcs, it raised eyebrows even in the 90s when done for Native Americans. So he made a revised Player’s Guide and Dungeon Master’s Guide for BECMI that fixed these issues, and then used that as the basis for his 5e conversion of Mystara.

Basically, he took something that sucked and made it good.
 
Basically, he took something that sucked and made it good.
Ah, so he pulled a Reverse Hollywood. Kudos to him, that's a rare thing indeed these past... 10-15 years.

Man... the writing profession is fucked, isn't it?
 
Ah, so he pulled a Reverse Hollywood. Kudos to him, that's a rare thing indeed these past... 10-15 years.

Man... the writing profession is fucked, isn't it?
mfw he’s admitted the main reason he doesnt do this for a living is because his career pays better
 
I thought of an idea for either a ttrpg or video game about Native American cultures. You play as a Native American in the 1500s-1600s. You come back from a long journey to your village only to discover that it has been abandoned.

You can tell that your people weren’t attacked but that many are dead. You find makeshift burials far away from the village as if something was wrong with the bodies. You continue to travel and find more abandoned villages. You find people with strange red spots on their bodies, begging you to stay away from them.

You are now alone in this world that appears to be dead. You must rely on your survival knowledge and skills to perhaps find out where your people have gone and to one day join them.

I’ve always been fascinated by how natives would have reacted to the destructive nature of the old world diseases and it would be an interesting post-apocalyptic setting as you would have no idea what happened besides people getting sick and dying. Religious fanatics doing all manner of things to appease the spirits, tribes blaming outsiders and attacking anyone they see, the encroaching return of nature, and the possibility of meeting Europeans.

Plus, you could incorporate native survival and cultural practices to demonstrate how these cultures lived pre-contact and the usefulness of those practices in everyday life. We all know that Native Americans hunted for food, but how did they hunt, what strategies did they use and why were they successful? I think that gameifying those practices would go a long way for non-native people to understand native cultures than just placing those practices in a cyberpunk setting.

You have been lied to about western diseases and native americans.

After the spanish showed up, population levels were unchanged for many decades. It took 200 years for the populations in central mexico to drop 10 or 20%. The Aztecs, in fact after Cortez murdered their emperor picked up their arms and - under spanish command - proceed to go beat the shit out of the Mayas for their new Latino masters.
Moctezuma's grandson was elevated to nobility in the Spanish court, a royal title still held by his descendants.

Small pox was devastating to native populations because of deaths via exposure.
tl;dr there are two forms of smallpox. A highly lethal form that is less virulent (it was reasonably likely to kill you, but you had fairly low odds of catching it), and a low-lethality form that was highly virulent (you were very likely to survive, but high odds of catching. "if you can see the sores"). Due the travel distances involved, no one with the high-lethality form of small pox survived the atlantic crossing so the Americas got the low-lethality version.
So how did the "less lethal" smallpox wipe out entire towns and crash a population?

The answer is it didn't - directly.
Because it was the highly contagious version, in a population with no natural immunity, if one person in a village got sick, everyone got sick in a very short period of time. There was not enough stored food, and gathering water too much work, for people be sidelined for two weeks - this was extremely devastating for the Maya who lived in small communities in the rainforests, because they often only had a 1-2 day supply of food (since harvested food spoiled quickly, and they were surrounded by year-round food sources)

You didn't die of smallpox, you died of dehydration & starvation because the whole village got sick at once, and everyone was too weak to gather water or collect/prepare food. The small pox survival rates at Spanish Missions were orders of magnitude higher than Indians in the villages, because there were clergy to care to the sick.

Here's the thing; I'm not actually sure if the guy is actually Native American. For starters, he claims that he's Cherokee, which is by far the easiest tribe to claim citizenship with; I also don't think he's ever actually shown any legitimate confirmation of citizenship. Secondly, there has been a rather large rise in people claiming to be "trans-racial"; i.e., they claim to be another race than what they actually biologically are. Thirdly, as @RA-5C Vigilante mentioned, there's a crippling lack of research into actual Native customs and such; if anything, a lot of the shit I read sounds more Neopaganism than Native, which is backed up by a few of the C&C players I found mentioned fighting against the "Patriarchy".

All in all, this sounds more like a wokeshit game made to get oppression points and cater to self-hating whites.
The Cherokee were one of the few tribes to see a population increase after contact with Whites.
They saw Europeans, said "That. We want that" and nearly wholesale adopted European farming and social practices; they were primed for this better than some indian tribes in a manner I won't get into. The Cherokee absorbed a lot of Irish immigrants. They were 500% pro-slavery and contributed a number of skilled generals and officers to the confederacy, including the guy who the infamous "rebel yell" is attributed to.

Don't get me started on the shine job that is the "trail of tears"

Anyway when taking about "Full Blooded Cherokee" I'll my usual Cherokee story:
My great-great-great grandparents were fairly well-to-do store owners. My Great-great-aunt was an "old maid" that caught unending shift for not having a husband and shaming the family. So she found, and married, a full-blooded cherokee man to spite them. They did not have any kids.

Some 80 years later, representatives from whatever sub tribe Great-Great Uncle "Heap white women at?" belonged to contacted my grandfather (He later learned that it was due to the tribe trying to pad their membership before some election). The tribe was offering full blood recognition for him and his children. Having a great aunt spite-marry a member was enough to get full membership.

Grandpa turned them down. Then within a decade, the tribal casinos started.

Yeah, the Aztec civilization in particular was well-known for the staggering amount of sacrifice shit they did; that's exactly why the "evil whyte pypeo" were able to beat them, because the Aztecs ended up pissing off literally everyone else around them and practically handed the Spanish a shit-ton of allies on a silver platter. Seriously, trying to act as if the Aztecs would be willing to open up their borders and share their culture is just... completely insane; granted, the book didn't actually go too far into them, so it's possible that the mention of the Aztecs might be a set-up for future antagonists, but that's a bit too optimistic for this game.
The Aztec founding myth is the Aztecs were dumb, brutal war like savages who went around Texcoco. They were too dumb to farm or have weapons, so they mostly stole crops until they'd be chased out. This was until they settled near one city where the King took pity on them. In exchange for giving him soldiers help fight a neighboring city, he gave them land and his people taught them how to farm, hunt, and make/use weapons.
The Aztecs in thanks asked the King for one his daughters so they could make her a Goddess. The King obliged. The Aztecs then sent a message to the king to come see his goddess-daughter, and when the king shows up there is a feast with his daughter dancing before the assembled crowds.
Except its not his daughter. Its an Aztec preist wearing her freshly flayed skin. His skinned daughter is the main course.

Naturally the King is unhappy, and his troops come through, slaughter most of the Aztecs, and the survivor flee into the marshes where they see the Eagle eating the snake on the cactus. They settle, most die of disease or starvation, but inside a generation the survivors march back out and then kill the King, his family and take the city for themselves, using it conquer the other two major powers around the lake.

I want to be clear:
This story of being stupid animals who repaid the first person to show them kindness with treachery and cannibalism is not what the Aztec's enemies told about them. This the Aztec's own account of their history.

In the 80s my mother played old-school D&D. She said some of the guys in her group definitely thought it should be boys-only and kind of resented her presence, but obviously this exclusionary attitude was not much of a problem because she actually got to play the game and have fun.
In my experience, a group with a non-married girl in it is very unstable.
Either she dates one of the guys and when that ends the group implodes, she gets a boyfriend and stops coming to D&D, or she brings more of her female (or gay) friends and tries to make the game sparkle princess adventures.

I will heavily vet, but if you pass you're in.
 
They believe they can appeal to the entire Not-White-Male demographic by following woke prescriptions about representation and whatever. Another twist is that the woke say that white male toxicity is a major factor keeping the other 70% of the population out, so getting rid of us completely should more than double their customer base.
One of the big problems WotC has is that they want to be Disney. They see what Disney is doing right now as a success and want to copy it. I hate to break it to WotC but Disney is in a rough spot right now. All their movies last year bombed and the only way they are able to stay afloat is their overpriced theme parks. WotC doesn't have that. They don't have anything to fall back on like Disney has with their theme parks. What do they have? Magic? People are getting pissed at how they have treated Magic. Especially after the 30 year anniversary. Critical Role? Sure, it still is pretty popular but it is not enough to keep them afloat. Not to mention that it isn't as popular as it was during the hey day of Covid. Their shitty movies and video games? People are boycotting them due to the OGL.
It is amazing to me how WotC keeps shooting themselves in the foot and instead of learning their lesson keep doing it thinking it will be different this time.
 
Man, the Aztec series was so good. Y'all should read the first couple of books.
 
I’m gonna AKSHULLY you real quick and mention that they weren’t just adapted, but changed wholesale to make them actually good.

The Native expies (the Atruaghin Clans) were part of the Mystara Gazetteer series, which was a series of books that detailed each country in The Known World (the main part of Mystara, probably their equivalent of the Sword Coast). This book was a famously bad rush job (thanks Lorraine Williams), and it shows. The isolated nature of the plateau they lived on, the tribes living in perfect harmony (save the evil aztec Tiger Clan), and their god-given rules against leaving the plateau or infighting meant that there was very little in the way of plot hooks. Plus, while giving bonuses to Strength and Constitution and penalties to Intelligence and Wisdom is ok for orcs, it raised eyebrows even in the 90s when done for Native Americans. So he made a revised Player’s Guide and Dungeon Master’s Guide for BECMI that fixed these issues, and then used that as the basis for his 5e conversion of Mystara.

Basically, he took something that sucked and made it good.
I’m aware of that, I just had about two minutes to type it up at work. It’s just notable that, shock of all shocks, a guy who is very Texan and very Welsh can pull something like that off by actually asking people what they want rather than hiring a sensitivity reader that will just ask Twitter what they want.
 
@Ghostse No, I will. I love history, but I have the historical literacy of a child, and you got me curious.

I'll tl;dr this, and I'll preface this with:
The deaths on the "trail of tears" are primarily the fault of the dead - they had ample notice to vacate the area their tribal leadership had sold to the US government.
Secondly, the fault falls on their tribal government for not ensuring their evacuation.
And thirdly, on idiots in congress who ordered the Army to start relocations in January, when could have waited 5-6 months for spring to arrive which would have greatly reduced the death toll. Or just passing a "We can wait for Grandma to die before taking over the land

The federal government preceeding, under, and post Andrew Jackson were up to some shit. This tl;dr is going to be giving the Feds a handjob to counter the prevailing narrative of "OMG total genocide". Their hands are definitely not clean, but the narrative removes all native culpability. Andrew Jackson also had fought Indians for most of his life, saw first hand the fuck-up shit they did to captives and the fact that the "fighty" Indians only respected you after you soundly and squarely beat their asses.... what I'm saying is that while it probably wouldn't have made a difference, he was definitely not the best choice of leader for a civilian evacuation.

The Cherokee historically were in Tennessee, Georgia, Virgina, and the Carolinas. They had been all but forced from Virginia and Carolinas by the 1830s - those that hadn't left had essentially fully integrated with the US and stopped living as tribal members. The tribal lands had been recognized by treaty, and as the Cherokee were economically integrated, the treaties were upheld. There was the discovery of gold in the mountains of Georgia that forced an issue.

The Federal Government basically bribed the then-president of the Cherokee nation - Chief John Ross - to sell their lands in the east in exchange for a bigger territory in the west, some cash for the tribe, and (purportedly) some handouts for Ross personally. Objectively, this was going to be a decision forced on them eventually, but Ross didn't even try to play hardball. The treaty said that Cherokee would cede the land by 1838 and the tribe members would be gone. And most of the tribe membership had done so well before the deadline.
(where the tribal leadership promptly murdered Cheif John Ross for fucking them over)

IF you didn't want to go to Oklahoma, you could renounce all tribal affliation and you'd effectively need to rebuy your land (and hope none of the government's Old Boys had an eye on your parcel); there was a not-significant number of people (principally "Irish Cherokee") who took this offer.

The problem was there was significant number of Cherokee who were old, sick, unwell, or too poor to make the trek to Oklahoma, and either didn't trust or didn't want to or didn't know they could change to American Citizenship and who stayed behind illegally. And the Army was tasked by congress to, on January 1, go take control of the new territory and remove anyone who was still a Cherokee and not an American. This is the middle of winter - so you have Sick Grandma being rousted from her home, put on a wagon, and force-marched to Oklahoma during the middle of an unusually harsh winter, where there may or may not be family to take care of her at the other end.
So while the mortality rate of Indians the army forcibly relocated was stupidly high, but you can look at the ages and health and realize most of those who died on the march wouldn't have lasted another 10 years. When you look at the tribe as a whole, it was barely a blip.

So there is lots of America-hating liberals who try to get it classed as "genocide", but anyone who does any actual looking into it, it is very clearly not. It was an unfortunate situation caused by Cherokee Leaders not accounting of thier own people, and congressional law makers forgetting January 1 is the middle of winter.
 
He also looks like this;

View attachment 4471267
I've seen dozens of people not entirely unlike him in the various areas around Liverpool. I would put extensive money that none of them have any actual Native American heritage and as such would feel similarly comfortable about him.
>tfw Iron-Eyes Cody looked and acted more Indian than you ever could and made the world a bit better with the anti-pollution ads while you look like a gay LARPer and cant even sell your shitty 70 dollar TRPG
Iron Eyes.gif
 
He also looks like this;

View attachment 4471267
I've seen dozens of people not entirely unlike him in the various areas around Liverpool. I would put extensive money that none of them have any actual Native American heritage and as such would feel similarly comfortable about him.

He looks like a hick version of Pulse from Rainbow Six: Siege.

I'll tl;dr this, and I'll preface this with:
The deaths on the "trail of tears" are primarily the fault of the dead - they had ample notice to vacate the area their tribal leadership had sold to the US government.
Secondly, the fault falls on their tribal government for not ensuring their evacuation.
And thirdly, on idiots in congress who ordered the Army to start relocations in January, when could have waited 5-6 months for spring to arrive which would have greatly reduced the death toll. Or just passing a "We can wait for Grandma to die before taking over the land

The federal government preceeding, under, and post Andrew Jackson were up to some shit. This tl;dr is going to be giving the Feds a handjob to counter the prevailing narrative of "OMG total genocide". Their hands are definitely not clean, but the narrative removes all native culpability. Andrew Jackson also had fought Indians for most of his life, saw first hand the fuck-up shit they did to captives and the fact that the "fighty" Indians only respected you after you soundly and squarely beat their asses.... what I'm saying is that while it probably wouldn't have made a difference, he was definitely not the best choice of leader for a civilian evacuation.

The Cherokee historically were in Tennessee, Georgia, Virgina, and the Carolinas. They had been all but forced from Virginia and Carolinas by the 1830s - those that hadn't left had essentially fully integrated with the US and stopped living as tribal members. The tribal lands had been recognized by treaty, and as the Cherokee were economically integrated, the treaties were upheld. There was the discovery of gold in the mountains of Georgia that forced an issue.

The Federal Government basically bribed the then-president of the Cherokee nation - Chief John Ross - to sell their lands in the east in exchange for a bigger territory in the west, some cash for the tribe, and (purportedly) some handouts for Ross personally. Objectively, this was going to be a decision forced on them eventually, but Ross didn't even try to play hardball. The treaty said that Cherokee would cede the land by 1838 and the tribe members would be gone. And most of the tribe membership had done so well before the deadline.
(where the tribal leadership promptly murdered Cheif John Ross for fucking them over)

IF you didn't want to go to Oklahoma, you could renounce all tribal affliation and you'd effectively need to rebuy your land (and hope none of the government's Old Boys had an eye on your parcel); there was a not-significant number of people (principally "Irish Cherokee") who took this offer.

The problem was there was significant number of Cherokee who were old, sick, unwell, or too poor to make the trek to Oklahoma, and either didn't trust or didn't want to or didn't know they could change to American Citizenship and who stayed behind illegally. And the Army was tasked by congress to, on January 1, go take control of the new territory and remove anyone who was still a Cherokee and not an American. This is the middle of winter - so you have Sick Grandma being rousted from her home, put on a wagon, and force-marched to Oklahoma during the middle of an unusually harsh winter, where there may or may not be family to take care of her at the other end.
So while the mortality rate of Indians the army forcibly relocated was stupidly high, but you can look at the ages and health and realize most of those who died on the march wouldn't have lasted another 10 years. When you look at the tribe as a whole, it was barely a blip.

So there is lots of America-hating liberals who try to get it classed as "genocide", but anyone who does any actual looking into it, it is very clearly not. It was an unfortunate situation caused by Cherokee Leaders not accounting of thier own people, and congressional law makers forgetting January 1 is the middle of winter.

Thanks for this, @Ghostse; I admit, I'm not the most familiar with Native history myself - about all I ever heard about the Trail of Tears was that it was "100% the evil whyte pyson's fault!!!1!" - so all of this is actually really interesting. Seriously, bit embarrassing that this site is better at teaching history than actual schools these days.

Going back to the C&C topic, though; as much as it pains me to admit it, I really do feel like the game honestly could have been better. Seriously, the idea of an alternate history plant where the Americas were never colonized could have been interesting if handled properly; what would change, and what would be the same? Too bad it got ruined by some faggot with an Indian fetish...

At least the C&C "characters" make for fun antagonists.
 
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Thanks for this, @Ghostse; I admit, I'm not the most familiar with Native history myself - about all I ever heard about the Trail of Tears was that it was "100% the evil whyte pyson's fault!!!1!" - so all of this is actually really interesting. Seriously, bit embarrassing that this site is better at teaching history than actual schools these days.

I do want to be clear: the situation & what happened was pretty fucked up. The Feds are not blameless, there was tons of shady backroom dealings by congress and state government officials angling to get at the gold in the mountains. There could have/should have been more to account for people left behind, but greed and actual real honest-to-god racism (racism with a basis in fact mind you) where indians were considered subhuman as at the base of a lot of it.

But it was not some senseless genocide committed by the army death marching thousands of women and children and shooting those who couldn't walk. The failure of tribal leadership to care for its people is swept away under the rug to screech "Wipipo bad!"
 
I'll tl;dr this, and I'll preface this with:
The deaths on the "trail of tears" are primarily the fault of the dead - they had ample notice to vacate the area their tribal leadership had sold to the US government.
Secondly, the fault falls on their tribal government for not ensuring their evacuation.
And thirdly, on idiots in congress who ordered the Army to start relocations in January, when could have waited 5-6 months for spring to arrive which would have greatly reduced the death toll. Or just passing a "We can wait for Grandma to die before taking over the land

The federal government preceeding, under, and post Andrew Jackson were up to some shit. This tl;dr is going to be giving the Feds a handjob to counter the prevailing narrative of "OMG total genocide". Their hands are definitely not clean, but the narrative removes all native culpability. Andrew Jackson also had fought Indians for most of his life, saw first hand the fuck-up shit they did to captives and the fact that the "fighty" Indians only respected you after you soundly and squarely beat their asses.... what I'm saying is that while it probably wouldn't have made a difference, he was definitely not the best choice of leader for a civilian evacuation.

The Cherokee historically were in Tennessee, Georgia, Virgina, and the Carolinas. They had been all but forced from Virginia and Carolinas by the 1830s - those that hadn't left had essentially fully integrated with the US and stopped living as tribal members. The tribal lands had been recognized by treaty, and as the Cherokee were economically integrated, the treaties were upheld. There was the discovery of gold in the mountains of Georgia that forced an issue.

The Federal Government basically bribed the then-president of the Cherokee nation - Chief John Ross - to sell their lands in the east in exchange for a bigger territory in the west, some cash for the tribe, and (purportedly) some handouts for Ross personally. Objectively, this was going to be a decision forced on them eventually, but Ross didn't even try to play hardball. The treaty said that Cherokee would cede the land by 1838 and the tribe members would be gone. And most of the tribe membership had done so well before the deadline.
(where the tribal leadership promptly murdered Cheif John Ross for fucking them over)

IF you didn't want to go to Oklahoma, you could renounce all tribal affliation and you'd effectively need to rebuy your land (and hope none of the government's Old Boys had an eye on your parcel); there was a not-significant number of people (principally "Irish Cherokee") who took this offer.

The problem was there was significant number of Cherokee who were old, sick, unwell, or too poor to make the trek to Oklahoma, and either didn't trust or didn't want to or didn't know they could change to American Citizenship and who stayed behind illegally. And the Army was tasked by congress to, on January 1, go take control of the new territory and remove anyone who was still a Cherokee and not an American. This is the middle of winter - so you have Sick Grandma being rousted from her home, put on a wagon, and force-marched to Oklahoma during the middle of an unusually harsh winter, where there may or may not be family to take care of her at the other end.
So while the mortality rate of Indians the army forcibly relocated was stupidly high, but you can look at the ages and health and realize most of those who died on the march wouldn't have lasted another 10 years. When you look at the tribe as a whole, it was barely a blip.

So there is lots of America-hating liberals who try to get it classed as "genocide", but anyone who does any actual looking into it, it is very clearly not. It was an unfortunate situation caused by Cherokee Leaders not accounting of thier own people, and congressional law makers forgetting January 1 is the middle of winter.
I think you've carefully overlooked the fact that the Supreme Court outright shot down what the United States government was doing as illegal, only for Andrew Jackson to outright say (paraphrased only slightly), "The Chief Justice has made his decision, now lets see him enforce it". The President, whose job it is to faithfully execute and enforce the laws of the United States, outright ignored a Supreme Court ruling just to do what he wanted anyway. You can't even imagine a U.S. president getting away with that today. A president even attempting that would be outright impeached.
 
I think you've carefully overlooked the fact that the Supreme Court outright shot down what the United States government was doing as illegal, only for Andrew Jackson to outright say (paraphrased only slightly), "The Chief Justice has made his decision, now lets see him enforce it". The President, whose job it is to faithfully execute and enforce the laws of the United States, outright ignored a Supreme Court ruling just to do what he wanted anyway. You can't even imagine a U.S. president getting away with that today. A president even attempting that would be outright impeached.
You must be forgetting your history. The Supreme court never shot anything down as illegal about the relocations.

Worcester v. Georgia said that states couldn't prevent people from residing on Indian lands, and that Indian tribes were in direct suzerains of the Federal government and states had no say in their affairs on their lands. The people in question in Worchester were white missionaries on the Cherokee lands without a state license.

Ironically the law that was undone by the decision was a law put in place by Georgian state government to prevent whites from settling on and occupying indian land.

Jackson never said "now let's see him enforce it" - at least not in the presence of anyone though the statement is believable. What Jackson did say was he blamed Yankees partisans in government for strengthening the Federal government, and State Governments - particularly in the south - wouldn't stand for it. And that was born out by the Nullification Crisis in South Carolina less than a year later.

The issue was rendered moot 3 years later when the Cherokee sold their lands and agreed to voluntary remove themselves from their lands in the east.
 
All this talk of natives and Europeans makes me think a supernatural investigators/monster hunters campaign featuring both native and European PCs in the early 1800s could be a lot of fun. Between native legends and whatever supernatural horrors came along with the ships, as well as just basic tensions between people of vastly differing cultures (often in open conflict), you'd have plenty of material for a monster of the week-style campaign.

Some investigating, some banter/tension, some exploration, and ending with a beastie that the party needs to kill/exorcise/banish. I'd definitely play that with a good GM.
 
All this talk of natives and Europeans makes me think a supernatural investigators/monster hunters campaign featuring both native and European PCs in the early 1800s could be a lot of fun. Between native legends and whatever supernatural horrors came along with the ships, as well as just basic tensions between people of vastly differing cultures (often in open conflict), you'd have plenty of material for a monster of the week-style campaign.

Some investigating, some banter/tension, some exploration, and ending with a beastie that the party needs to kill/exorcise/banish. I'd definitely play that with a good GM.
Race relations are just a fun plot hook/roleplaying element in general, as long as your GM doesnt subscribe to modern day academia (secretly government propaganda)
 
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