Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

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If anyone can suggest any of these (other than advance 5e) worth looking into, I'd appreciate it.

The group I'm a player in (the one with HEMA guy) is currently on hiatus for the summer, and some of the players are asking if we can switch to PathFinder 1e because 5e is too simple. One guy is even suggesting his own homebrew system.
If you want something more "complex" I would personally recommend GURPS, it takes some work on the DMs part to setup (choosing what rules to use, what mechanics to simplify or tweak) but once you got everything setup it is a nice system where you can build any sort of character.
Ironclaw has a nice combat system where defense tends to be more active than passive, but plenty of people are put off by the furshit so you might want to replace the funny animal people by humans or fantasy races.
I would recommend savage worlds but I came to hate that system, it is a generic system where you "can build any character you want!" but found builds to be rather restrictive if you want to say, make a hybrid caster who uses melee weapons or guns. That aside , the combat can get swingy due exploding dice.
Lastly, there was a fanmade fallout ttrpg which adapted SPECIAL rather nicely, think my DM kept a spreadsheet open to help with calculations but that's it.
I since 2015 have never known PathFinder 1e to be suggested by anyone who wasn't a powergaming munchkin (before 2015 that would merely be 'rarely'). And never in the history of ever have I heard PathFinder 1e suggested by someone who actually liked roleplaying.
I agree 100% with this, but maybe it is just my big distaste for 3e/PF 1e and their design philosophy
 
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Just picked this up. I'm disappointed though. It says the ranger is a fighter, the cavalier is a paladin, and the thief acrobat is a rogue. Fans of the show know the real classes these characters were.

They need a second set with the thief, barbarian, Venger and the Dungeon Master.
 
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I want to run a game where most combat is in planes got any recs for systems to run?
 
I since 2015 have never known PathFinder 1e to be suggested by anyone who wasn't a powergaming munchkin (before 2015 that would merely be 'rarely'). And never in the history of ever have I heard PathFinder 1e suggested by someone who actually liked roleplaying.

Depends on what you are wanting from your Roleplay sessions.

I'd say, since you're on break, give the homebrew system a try. If it sucks, you have a ready-made excuse to stop playing it in a few weeks. As @EnemyStand said, make sure they're GMing it.
I've played pathfinder with several groups for a few years and a lot of the time it's because it's tough to sell people on a new system and sticking with what you know and making house rules as needed is a lot easier. While it does attract powergamers (we have a couple in the group), everyone puts a lot of effort into actual rp. Imo it's easier to teach mechanics to a good rp-er vs trying to get a powergamer to actually give a fuck about rp. Ultimately it comes down to the people you play with and setting expectations.

But I agree. Take advantage of the break to try out new systems and see how people adjust. One shots are a lot of fun even if everyone is fumbling with the rules.
 
I've played pathfinder with several groups for a few years and a lot of the time it's because it's tough to sell people on a new system and sticking with what you know and making house rules as needed is a lot easier. While it does attract powergamers (we have a couple in the group), everyone puts a lot of effort into actual rp. Imo it's easier to teach mechanics to a good rp-er vs trying to get a powergamer to actually give a fuck about rp. Ultimately it comes down to the people you play with and setting expectations.

But I agree. Take advantage of the break to try out new systems and see how people adjust. One shots are a lot of fun even if everyone is fumbling with the rules.

I've known people who want to roleplay who play Pathfinder, but it is never a system they suggested. It is always the munchkin with the one-line background and a disposable character sheet to replace as soon as the current character's meta is no longer optimal. And I know people who like a power-game arms race with the GM - hell that was me for a time - but if you aren't wanting to see that guy bust out the most broken builds from Stackover and reddit, don't go PF1e.

I want to run a game where most combat is in planes got any recs for systems to run?

Oof, that's a hard one. I'm going to assume you want to do more than just abstract things out and narrative the dice?
Maybe look into adapting another system like Crimson Skies or Star Trek/X-Wing for the aerial combat?
 
If anyone can suggest any of these (other than advance 5e) worth looking into, I'd appreciate it.

The group I'm a player in (the one with HEMA guy) is currently on hiatus for the summer, and some of the players are asking if we can switch to PathFinder 1e because 5e is too simple. One guy is even suggesting his own homebrew system.
there's also 5e hardcore mode by the guy who made ICRPG, I think there a few more that add/change stuff wholesale, and a myriad of more specific stuff like kingdom building etc. I don't play or really follow 5e anymore, I mostly see the discussion (quite frequently) about it and the kickstarters in the places I lurk. plus 5e is probably the biggest edition ever, there has to be a large amount of third party content (licensed and otherwise) based on statistics alone.

you could ask the 5e general on /tg/, they can probably point you in the right direction with whatever issue you have. fucking reddit probably too, and they do a lot of OC as well what it seems like.

I'm with @Ghostse that PF1 is probably overkill. it's certainly not as simple as 5e, but I'm not sure this form of "not simple" is what your players are looking for, or if you're willing to deal with it.
as for homebrew, might be me but these days I equal homebrew with broken (mostly from personal experience), can work out but otherwise not worth the headache and stress.
I think you really need to have your players reflect on what they even mean with "too simple". combat, class progression, mechanics, etc...? without that replacing one thing for another completely and hoping for the best won't really fix stuff. anyway, for suggestions I have a mate swearing on savage worlds (if you don't wanna go full gurps), or PF2 (but coming from me that's not really an objective suggestion, it does fix (ymmv) 5e's "boring/simple" class progression however).

5e adventure books outsell entire lines of other TTRPG products. I don't personally care for them, but they're doing something right.

They are completely capable of collapsing their market back to where it was in late 3.5 or 4e days. I strongly suspect that 6e will be more about removing the "problematic" bits of everything and thoroughly wokifying the game than it will be about fixing various design issues. The obnoxious power creep in Tasha's Cauldron suggests WotC is getting worse at writing rules, not better. In fact, each expansion from Xanathar's onward has been about making D&D more of a power fantasy.
because it's MUH OFFICAL MATERIAL. of course corporate cock-sucking consoomers are buying that shit just for that.
for the same reason 6e will probably sell, because most of them don't care about the quality of it to begin with. otherwise they wouldn't play 5e either....
 
Anyone have opinions on what edition of Shadowrun is best? I’m starting a new campaign and haven’t decided yet what edition to run. I’ve played 5th and while it was good the book was very unorganized.
 
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Just picked this up. I'm disappointed though. It says the ranger is a fighter, the cavalier is a paladin, and the thief acrobat is a rogue. Fans of the show know the real classes these characters were.

They need a second set with the thief, barbarian, Venger and the Dungeon Master.
Really? They can’t let the acrobat show even a little bit of midriff?
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Anyone have opinions on what edition of Shadowrun is best? I’m starting a new campaign and haven’t decided yet what edition to run. I’ve played 5th and while it was good the book was very unorganized.

@Adamska I recall you had post about the Shadowrun edition war so I'm sure you've got informed opinions.
 
Warbirds is the one I'd recommend best since it has splats for different types of planes from different eras and settings, ranging from WW2 to Sci-Fi stuff.
How hard is it too homebrew new planes?
 
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there's also 5e hardcore mode by the guy who made ICRPG, I think there a few more that add/change stuff wholesale, and a myriad of more specific stuff like kingdom building etc. I don't play or really follow 5e anymore, I mostly see the discussion (quite frequently) about it and the kickstarters in the places I lurk. plus 5e is probably the biggest edition ever, there has to be a large amount of third party content (licensed and otherwise) based on statistics alone.

[...]

as for homebrew, might be me but these days I equal homebrew with broken (mostly from personal experience), can work out but otherwise not worth the headache and stress.

I equate anything homebrew with broken as well. Even my own home brew. (especially if its my own homebrew)
But you gotta play test your shit sometime, somewhere. So if its my homebrew, or someone else at the table's homebrew that I completely trust and have read through, I'll try it out. If its something from reddit or some wiki/forum, you want to break the game with, you can fuck right off.

Part of the problem with homebrewing off of 5e is 5e is heavily play tested so other than a few woopsies (Crossbow expert) when you try to homebrew out of it you're going to fuck up the balance somewhere. The best results are usually where keep combat (and maybe magic) and build their own races/classes.

I would also say:
I think 5e has the most people playing it, but I think 1eA in the peak years had a greater percentage of the American population playing it. I think 5e also has the most 3rd party content being developed for using any metric, just because of the internet, wordprocessors, the exceptionally low cost of digital publishing, and people aren't doing math on slide rules anymore.

I think you really need to have your players reflect on what they even mean with "too simple". combat, class progression, mechanics, etc...? without that replacing one thing for another completely and hoping for the best won't really fix stuff. anyway, for suggestions I have a mate swearing on savage worlds (if you don't wanna go full gurps), or PF2 (but coming from me that's not really an objective suggestion, it does fix (ymmv) 5e's "boring/simple" class progression however).

I've never gotten a group for savage worlds, but I will say:
Firstly, I've never known a Savage Worlds group to hold together longer than about a dozen sessions. SW doesn't seem to lend itself to long-term attention spans.
Second, card-based probability always sounds better than it actually works out to be.

I remember the speds from Penny Arcade were test-running some game... Thornbriar? Briarwood? Something like that, that had an interesting sounding mechanic: your class' actions were a deck you built, and when you took damage you added wound cards to your deck. To perform an action, you discard the card - some cards go back into you hand, some required you to discard additional cards, some are gone. You couldn't discard wound cards, so if your hand was nothing but wound cards you were dead. Healers let other people discard woundcards.
It seemed like a really fun mix of deck-building and pressing your luck - but jesus christ would it it be easy for a game to go to utter shit on you because of a bad shuffle.
 
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I'm not sure where this dichotomy between 5e and PF1 is coming from. If you want something more complex than 5e, just play 3.5e. You know, the system 5e is derived from, with literal dozens of splats and more classes, prestige classes, feats, bonuses and special rules than you can shake a stick at?

I really don't get it. It's like people got so traumatized by 4e that they think going back an edition or two is heresy or something.
 
Thanks for all the replies. I won't quote-reply everyone, but hopefully this will cover everyone's points even if I don't quote you specifically.

I think you really need to have your players reflect on what they even mean with "too simple". combat, class progression, mechanics, etc...?
I already have the answer.

They cite specific things, lack of build diversity, lack of feats, etc. The DM already switched from the attunement system to a slot based gear system after the players complained about not being able to equip all their magic items at once. But the main problem seems to be the lack of stacking bonuses with everything being advantage or disadvantage. I know there are optional rules to stack advantages but we're not using them.


I'm not sure where this dichotomy between 5e and PF1 is coming from. If you want something more complex than 5e, just play 3.5e. You know, the system 5e is derived from, with literal dozens of splats and more classes, prestige classes, feats, bonuses and special rules than you can shake a stick at?
PathFinder 1e was the groups game before moving to 5e, and I hated it. There is so much math in that game that turns took forever and there were constant arguments when, 20 minutes after someone's turn, they remembered they had a +2 from some buff or ability and would ask the DM to rewind the game. Character creation was also clunky to impossible due to the amount of content. There's a reason the group ditched the system, and I really don't want to go back to it. It's why I want to try and salvage 5e if I can.

I also don't want to play the homebrew game because most people are not designers. While I've not read the rules, the pitch does nothing to persuade me otherwise.


I have a mate swearing on savage worlds
Is it me?

Firstly, I've never known a Savage Worlds group to hold together longer than about a dozen sessions. SW doesn't seem to lend itself to long-term attention spans.
I was going to disagree, but now I think about it I've not held a SW group together that long. A problem with SW is players that max out combat skills then say there's nowhere to go build wise. Ignoring edges and utility skills.
 
Anyone have opinions on what edition of Shadowrun is best? I’m starting a new campaign and haven’t decided yet what edition to run. I’ve played 5th and while it was good the book was very unorganized.
@Adamska I recall you had post about the Shadowrun edition war so I'm sure you've got informed opinions.
I personally would advocate for 4e over the others, mainly because it's the edition that tried to make netrunning accessible in a way that did not derail your game.

Like Cyberpunk, Shadowrun always had issues in how to design cyberspace style shenanigans. Both the netrunner and the decker both effectively would stall your game since their mechanics effectively require either having a second DM oversee this as the other guys do their thing, or you had to seriously homebrew how they work. 4e's Crash 2.0 gave you a class that at least sort of plays nicer with the other mechanics.

It also is a lot cleaner and organized than 5th edition, since it wasn't made under the watch of cheapskates with a bad design philosophy for books.

Runner up would probably be 3e. It's compatible with 1e and 2e books still and has a lot more gubbins than either.
How hard is it too homebrew new planes?
There's no easy template system like there is with designing monsters in DnD unfortunately, but the other splat books can give you good ideas based on their stats on how to design a plane. It takes fiddling for it.
 
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Just picked this up. I'm disappointed though. It says the ranger is a fighter, the cavalier is a paladin, and the thief acrobat is a rogue. Fans of the show know the real classes these characters were.

They need a second set with the thief, barbarian, Venger and the Dungeon Master.
Presto isn't even digging in his hat to cast a spell. SAD.
 
Anyone have opinions on what edition of Shadowrun is best? I’m starting a new campaign and haven’t decided yet what edition to run. I’ve played 5th and while it was good the book was very unorganized.
I really enjoyed playing 4th years ago but that is all my experience with Shadowrun.
As for 5E, you can probably sneak in enough 2E, 3E and Pathfinder into it without going fully into those other systems. Fully dropping 5E for PF1 with a group with no PF1 experience would be a huge ask.
 
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