Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.)

[Agent of Z.O.G.]

1eBX is a little better about training players, where its usually a few level or two until you can get hirelings, much less until you get your starter order.

BX prices let you hire a couple hundred mercenaries for a month with lv2 funds so I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Corn Flakes]

BX prices let you hire a couple hundred mercenaries for a month with lv2 funds so I have no idea what you're talking about.

I thought the amount of hirelings you could have at any given time was limited by your level and some kind of leadership score. Admittedly, I have only read these rules once.

 

[Agent of Z.O.G.]

I thought the amount of hirelings you could have at any given time was limited by your level and some kind of leadership score. Admittedly, I have only read these rules once.

That was only for retainers who were actual adventurers. Even then you get 4 retainers per PC on average so you should, at minimum remove any recourse management that isn't HP and magic once you fill up your cart.

 

[BlazikenLover]

its so Karen doesn't scream sure, but that is all anyone under 25 knows now.
They know its bullshit, but when they DON'T get one, all they understand is 'I fucked up so bad they didn't give me my participation award'.
They don't understand how to not be fully engaged 100% of the time. No one knows how to be 'bored' anymore, just constant stimuli and instant gratification.



Strong disagree back at ya.

I'm not talking about Combat; as long as you are ready when your turn comes up, yeah you don't need to be fully engaged (now if you're checking facebook and getting snacks, then take 30 minutes to consult your spell list when you're on deck... then that's a problem). That's ok in doses, and not what I'm talking about.

(Also, Combat lag can be solved easily with group initiative; players are either coordinating their actions or seeing what the enemy is doing and they'll be responding to shortly)

I'm talking about party decisions and interactions when the party is in town and between dungeons. The shit the Critical Role crowd claim they live for, but can't stand when its someone else's turn to have the spot light.

A bad DM will neglect players who don't need neglecting. Bad players tune out when people are talking to each other instead of taking notes.

Out of curiosity how do you run group initiative? My old group tried it a couple times and i liked it, looking to use it on my current game

 

[Ghostse]

BX prices let you hire a couple hundred mercenaries for a month with lv2 funds so I have no idea what you're talking about.

lol @ letting a B/X player character survive to level 2.

Out of curiosity how do you run group initiative? My old group tried it a couple times and i liked it, looking to use it on my current game

Depends on system. Most OSR stuff just straight up says "do group initiative"; if ambushing, surprising party goes first. Otherwise opposed die rolls.

For D&D3.5+, depending on how RAW the campaign is going, I might have the first turn or three be free-for-all but eventually the monsters will hold turn long enough that it'll end up as group initiative.

Again, depending on system but assuming D&D 3.5+, in group initiative everyone gets their standard Move/Fight/Look turn and they can just order their turns and take actions anyway they see fit. I know a lot of DMs & systems talk about declaring actions, but for me that works out like rolling initiative every turn - a great idea for gritty high-stakes combat, but completely unworkable in reality.
Just let the players huddle and work out how they want to act.

 

[JektheDumbass]

My “favorites” are the ones who think that if you don’t have Darkvision they’re automatically invisible to you and try to hold it up as some sort of standard of power.

I one time tried to find an invisible enemy by breaking a jug of burgundy wine on it. GM overruled it. Asshole.

EDIT: people talking about players owning castles and manors and land as if they've never had the DM just take everything from them off-screen while they were saving the world. Family too, if you aren't a friendless orphan murder hobo at character creation you're gonna be one after session 5 at the latest.

 

[Jet Fuel Johnny]

EDIT: people talking about players owning castles and manors and land as if they've never had the DM just take everything from them off-screen while they were saving the world. Family too, if you aren't a friendless orphan murder hobo at character creation you're gonna be one after session 5 at the latest.

That last part is why I always let new players know that I won't target the family unless it's foreshadowed, driven by at least a Tier-III villain, and they have a chance to intervene.

Usually by about 9th level some of the martial character's henchmen and troops rotate guarding the PC's families

 

[JektheDumbass]

That last part is why I always let new players know that I won't target the family unless it's foreshadowed, driven by at least a Tier-III villain, and they have a chance to intervene.

Usually by about 9th level some of the martial character's henchmen and troops rotate guarding the PC's families

I just remember trying that and my henchmen betraying me and murdering my family the second I was out of eyeshot. I know the people I game with now aren't the same shitters I hung out with in high school but it's hard to trust DMs who aren't me.

 

[Corn Flakes]

Yeah, you've got some really shitty GMs there. Cheap shots like that can be powerful narrative tools if used sparingly, but if there's never any loyalty to anyone the game just devolves into Murderhobo Simulator.

 

[Adamska]

I one time tried to find an invisible enemy by breaking a jug of burgundy wine on it. GM overruled it. Asshole.

If you managed to get past the miss chance and Touch AC of the guy, I'd rule you hit him and they're visible for a couple of rounds or so. That GM is just an asshole who probably also invented special damage too to ignore things like DR or ER too.

EDIT: people talking about players owning castles and manors and land as if they've never had the DM just take everything from them off-screen while they were saving the world. Family too, if you aren't a friendless orphan murder hobo at character creation you're gonna be one after session 5 at the latest.

You sadly remind me of my first time GMing. I was guilty of doing that to their homebases a couple of times, one of which was done particularly kackhandedly for a goofy moment with a stupid powerful NPC, who did at least reward them with a wishlist item in recompense. The other at least had some half-assed justifications, given it was done in response by a group the party fucked with in the past or who historically had beef with the party's organization.

I've improved since then thankfully, since that's shit behavior what they and what past me did. Nowadays I tend to not take assets unless you slight a noted BBEG who has the ability and motives to do it, or if you seriously neglect it. Even then on the latter it just means you need to reinvest time into it. It should also definitely have warnings, like a message of desperation or a note from loyal servants or loved ones.

I just remember trying that and my henchmen betraying me and murdering my family the second I was out of eyeshot. I know the people I game with now aren't the same shitters I hung out with in high school but it's hard to trust DMs who aren't me.

Now this was bullshit. You never go after family or hirelings unless the villain is spiteful and you've already fucked their plans over a couple of times. Even then, you need to have a chance to try and stop it or at least to try to save what you can.

 

[Ghostse]

Of all the houserules for disease/debilitating curses I saw being used, the one I liked the most was also the simplest: as the disease progresses the character takes X damage (could be fixed, could be a dice roll) that cannot be recovered by normal means. This happens every day and depending on the disease there will be a save against it. Once the character reaches 0HP they're bedridden and they start rolling death saves every day as the disease runs its course. If the character survives it and the disease clears or is healed, they get to regain their lost HP at twice the rate they lost it.

I don't have single 'type' of disease, and evey one is different with different effects and different rules. I also don't use them a lot, but they can be fun to shake things up. Most go after things that aren't HP.

anyway, I was mentioning the topic in response to @Jet Fuel Johnny talking about the socio-economic effects on clerics on epidemiology, and in my worlds, there is almost none for diseases and plagues. There isn't enough juice to keep everyone alive, even a high level cleric with cure disease and reagents can only save so many. Sort of like a modern doctor, the best you can hope for is hoping to make the difference for someone on the edge and ease the suffering of those you can't help.

Now this was bullshit. You never go after family or hirelings unless the villain is spiteful and you've already fucked their plans over a couple of times. Even then, you need to have a chance to try and stop it or at least to try to save what you can.

A good villain should know that a hostage gives you leverage, a corpse gives you an enemy.

In general its better to have everyone operate with Cold War Spy rules - family are off-limits. Henchmen are also sort of bullshit to go after if the PCs are making reasonable efforts to keep them safe. Now of course if the PCs start going murder hobo and attempting to use the Pax Henchmano to circumvent the game, then bad things will result.

 

[Jet Fuel Johnny]

I had a villain give the characters a set of choices:

"You notice I am alone, and thus you just might have a slim chance to defeat me. Where are my minions, you ask? Well, half of them are going to burn down this orphanage and kill all the children and nuns. The others are going to burn down your family home and crucify your family! You can attempt to defeat me, which will stop neither, or you may choose one to try to stop! AHAHHAHAA!"

They chose the orphanage, they get there, the Mother Superior looks at them like crazy people. They ride as fast as they can to their home, nothing, nothing wrong.

Now they look like crazy people.

Then a courier delivered a message: "I don't make war on children and families. PS: I was alone and my minions were hijacking a mining caravan. Toodles!"

It's 10 years later and that fucking encounter still pisses them off to this day.

 

[DDBCAE CBAADCBE]

So something really cool and wholesome just happened in our westmarch. Myself and a black guy both decided to join up with the local guard division and it’s kind of turning into a Buddy Cop movie.

 

[Snekposter]

So something really cool and wholesome just happened in our westmarch. Myself and a black guy both decided to join up with the local guard division and it’s kind of turning into a Buddy Cop movie.

Is he getting too old for that shit though?

 

[Pringles Can]

Yeah, you've got some really shitty GMs there. Cheap shots like that can be powerful narrative tools if used sparingly, but if there's never any loyalty to anyone the game just devolves into Murderhobo Simulator.

I had one DM who was obsessed with cheapshots and having situations where our survival was nearly impossible. With him pretty much every shadowrun session ended with him either blowing up the building we were in, or just having our fixer fuck us over. Was not fun to bring a new character just to have them die for a few weeks straight.

On the bright side though he eventually got replaced by someone else, and we pretty much messed with him the whole time, and got back at him for killing every character we ever made.

 

[Capsaicin Addict]

My party managed to prove someone was a murderer and got him executed. Good job, drinks all around.

They went off to do a side quest for the commander of the keep, and when they got back he glumly told them that someone had stolen the guy's body.

So they're pretty sure someone arranged to have this guy resurrected and he's going to be gunning for them. Which is entirely true. LOL.

 

[EnemyStand]

I had one DM who was obsessed with cheapshots and having situations where our survival was nearly impossible. With him pretty much every shadowrun session ended with him either blowing up the building we were in, or just having our fixer fuck us over. Was not fun to bring a new character just to have them die for a few weeks straight.

On the bright side though he eventually got replaced by someone else, and we pretty much messed with him the whole time, and got back at him for killing every character we ever made.

See, Shadowrun GMs need to understand a couple things about Shadowrun:

1. Fixers live and die by their reputation. Fucking over their runners is the quickest way to ruin that. Ergo, any fixer who fucks over any runners will soon find themselves dead in a random ally in the sprawl, and not necessarily by the guys they fucked over.

2. Corporations run on a strict profit-loss model, which is why runners can even do their thing in the first place. Any exec who blew up a building to get back at a couple runners would find himself fired, demoted to being the personal assistant of the mail room intern, or volunteered for one of the company's "Behavioral Correction Programs." Hope he doesn't work for Aztechnology! Blowing up a building is a huge expense for no profit (less profit in fact), and these commie LARPer GMs need to learn this before they even think of running any cyberpunk game.

3. You didn't mention this, but GMs seem to like having Mr. Johnson fucking over his runners constantly. Johnson has a bit more leeway, but each one is different, has different goals, and works for different organizations. So why do so many Johnsons seem to come out of a Happy Merchant Meme Factory?

 

[Techpriest]

See, Shadowrun GMs need to understand a couple things about Shadowrun:

1. Fixers live and die by their reputation. Fucking over their runners is the quickest way to ruin that. Ergo, any fixer who fucks over any runners will soon find themselves dead in a random ally in the sprawl, and not necessarily by the guys they fucked over.

2. Corporations run on a strict profit-loss model, which is why runners can even do their thing in the first place. Any exec who blew up a building to get back at a couple runners would find himself fired, demoted to being the personal assistant of the mail room intern, or volunteered for one of the company's "Behavioral Correction Programs." Hope he doesn't work for Aztechnology! Blowing up a building is a huge expense for no profit (less profit in fact), and these commie LARPer GMs need to learn this before they even think of running any cyberpunk game.

3. You didn't mention this, but GMs seem to like having Mr. Johnson fucking over his runners constantly. Johnson has a bit more leeway, but each one is different, has different goals, and works for different organizations. So why do so many Johnsons seem to come out of a Happy Merchant Meme Factory?

Good corporate Johnson’s only fuck over runners when they do really shady operations, or are doing the sort of black ops stuff that could cause major international incidents.

 

[Pringles Can]

1. Fixers live and die by their reputation. Fucking over their runners is the quickest way to ruin that. Ergo, any fixer who fucks over any runners will soon find themselves dead in a random ally in the sprawl, and not necessarily by the guys they fucked over.

Honestly this is the biggest one people seem to fuck up the hardest on. Fixers are not just some random weed dealer on the street. As you said, fucking over runners=their reputation and lives being over.

I've had only one DM have a fixer screw us over, and it making some sense. In short. Fixer was dead, and someone else was pretty much pretending to be him, which we learned later in the campaign and would have found out earlier if our decker was not rolling like shit that day.

 

[EnemyStand]

Good corporate Johnson’s only fuck over runners when they do really shady operations, or are doing the sort of black ops stuff that could cause major international incidents.

And even then if the job was completed to their satisfaction they won't go out of their way to kill the runners. It's easier and simpler to pay them, remind them their pay includes their hazard pay and price of discretion, and fill out a report to his boss saying everything was handled appropriately and we might want to hang on to their contact info. Good help is hard to find after all.

Hell, even if they fuck up Shadowrunners are deniable assets. Johnson doesn't have much reason to off them unless doing so will guarantee whatever government/corporation they pissed off won't be able to trace their failure to him specifically.

Honestly this is the biggest one people seem to fuck up the hardest on. Fixers are not just some random weed dealer on the street. As you said, fucking over runners=their reputation and lives being over.

I've had only one DM have a fixer screw us over, and it making some sense. In short. Fixer was dead, and someone else was pretty much pretending to be him, which we learned later in the campaign and would have found out earlier if our decker was not rolling like shit that day.

I like that idea. But then, the fixer who screwed you wasn't a fixer, so my rule 1 doesn't really apply.