Suikoden and Eiyuden Chronicle - We got 108 problems but a sequel ain't one

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What's your favorite Suikoden game?

  • Suikoden

  • Suikoden II

  • Suikoden III

  • Suikoden IV

  • Suikoden V

  • Suikoden Tactics

  • Suikoden Tierkreis

  • Eiyuden Chronicle is going to rock!!

  • Schtolteheim Reinbach III

  • I'm a true weeb and love only Suikogaiden


Results are only viewable after voting.
I thought it was really interesting that the villains of V aren't larger than life figures like Luca or Barbarossa. They're just weaselly politicians pulling weaselly stunts. Even the so called House Barrows allies you pick up are doing the same thing to you.

Also digging into Falena's nasty past with the assassins and how Oboro and crew are victims of that. Genuinely good stuff.
Yeah, the politics in V made the most sense to me. II suffers from Luca Blight not being the final boss. Narratively, his army should have lost the will to fight after his death. I've never understood why Jowy would continue the war.
 
Yeah, the politics in V made the most sense to me. II suffers from Luca Blight not being the final boss. Narratively, his army should have lost the will to fight after his death. I've never understood why Jowy would continue the war.
I had some theories on that from back in the day.


I think Jowy hated both Highland and Jowston. I think he realized that as long as those two states existed, things like the sham battle between Han and Genkaku would just keep happening. War wasn't going to end just by Luca's death, the enmity between the two nations was too deep. I think he must have concluded that Luca was a symptom of the sickness in their land, not the cause. They couldn't get too deep into it in the game, probably for censorship reasons, but Luca's hatred of Jowston came from his mother's rape at the hands of Jowston soldiers - and his father's cowardice in leaving them there to experience that. Things were bad between Jowston and Highland before Luca.

Add to that the personal reasons for Jowy's hatred of war. With their brigade being slaughtered and Pillika mentally scarred by the death of her parents, Jowy had plenty of reasons to hate the conflict. There was definitely a cycle of war that wasn't just caused by Luca's bloodlust. Jowy wanted to end that cycle completely by unifying the two nations, even if it was through his own bloodshed. He's willing to murder Annabelle, starve out Greenhill, and all sorts of other horrible things just to reform a very troubled land.

It's telling that he doesn't really want to defeat Riou after Jowy becomes king. He just wants him to stop fighting. I think he hoped after Luca's death that Riou and Nanami would just leave and let him unify the land. Jowy didn't hesitate to take the Black Sword when he knew it would help him to protect people. He wanted to protect Riou and Nanami, the closest things he had to true family, the most. Jowy snaps and kills Gorudo, his own ally, when he kills/"kills" Nanami. Despite everything, she's still someone very important to him.

I thought it was telling that once Highland is defeated and the Dunan Republic is formed, Jowy goes back to the place they'd meet up from the start of the game. The duel battle with him is less a fight, and more an elaborate suicide on Jowy's part. Jowy wants to be defeated and give the Black Sword up. He got his wish for a unified land, just not in the way he wanted. He knows he's done awful things to achieve his ends, and he believes he should die for it. He berates Riou for not fighting back if you are trying to get the true ending. I always thought it was very interesting that the ending where the Rune of Beginning is formed, and Riou becomes the leader of Dunan, is technically the bad ending.

I think the curse of the Black Sword and Bright Shield played into that somewhat as well. Han and Genkaku were those runes' former bearers, and they started as friends and ended up enemies as well. But I think Jowy had plenty of motivations to keep the war going even after Luca's death.


In conclusion, Suikoden II's storyline is a masterpiece. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.
 
The game was slow as shit though.
II definitely takes its time getting the plot rolling, definitely more than I. Luca burning down the villages near Viktor's fort doesn't happen for quite a while.

III and V take the cake for really extending the "prologue" out. I didn't mind it so much in V though. IV, for all its other faults, gets the Rune of Punishment stuff going pretty quickly.
 
IV has a pretty great opening segment. The cast used during it are well fleshed out and utilized, you get to make some choices that have actual effects, plus the pacing and structure for everything is well done right up until you get your main ship... then the game just sorta collapses.
 
I got exposed to this series by Suikoden Tactics. At the time, I was thinking "WTF? This game is $5. That's worth a try." So I played it and it was alright, but I didn't know it was effectively sequel DLC for IV's lacking story. So I then got IV and aside from the sky-high encounter rate, it was fine. Then I played V and liked it. Needed a walkthrough to get all 108 stars with its weird time constraints for recruitment, but I love the setting and politics going on.
 
Having played the remake for Suikoden 1.

This game is complete ass, and the awful coat of paint Konami put over it does it almost no favors.


Props for having actual stakes in a JRPG though.
 
It helps that 1 is pretty short. I enjoyed it well enough but it's clearly the prototype for 2.
 
Having played the remake for Suikoden 1.

This game is complete ass,
Same, took me about 20 hours and Suikoden 1 is really rough.
This came out in 1995. That's a year after the 2nd Fire Emblem game, a year before the third one. A year after Breath of Fire II and the same year as Chrono Trigger. It has some pretty good sprite work but since there's 70 interchangeable battle characters that the game just vomits at you, you use maybe 5 or 10 as a core team. The game forces party members into your team like Viktor and Flik, with Tir being included means you can only have 3 other people in.
So you're given a large roster like Fire Emblem and are told to utilize unique attacks yet only have 3 slots to put people into. You have to juggle armor and items for all these people too.
Difficulty scaling is all over the place. That zombie dragon in the base was a legitimate roadblock because you're supposed to face him at LV17 with no full party heals because a Water Orb doesn't give Lv3 spells till Lv 20 at least. I go off to the elf forest and fight a few battles there and suddenly I'm level 21 and can easily wipe out the dragon.
There were points where I was stumped with what I was supposed to do next. For example you're supposed to find a way to get into Milich's castle. At no point does it say "Take the boat down the stream, encounter rapids, go back to the ship builder and get a better ship." If I wasn't following a guide, I would not have known what to do next.
Drop rates on items are also absurd. Apparently it was real easy in the original to get a Caledon Urn from the fluff balls around Gregminster, those are used in the baths or can be sold for 100k. I saw reddit posts saying they grinded for 6 hours and didn't get one. End game orbs like Thunder or Mother Earth are also dropped by enemies. So if you want more than one you get from a chest, good luck with that and knowing which monster drops it.
The story was likewise confusing. Odessa for instance said to toss her body into the sewer. I thought she was part of the 108 and would wash up somewhere later to rejoin the group but no, apparently Tir ate her soul with the Soul Eater Rune and I missed that somehow. I kinda realized halfway through that they were making things up as they went along and really stopped caring.

I think back to Trails in the Sky. How you have a core roster of 2 with Estelle and Joshua and can swap with other people in the story. How simple things like a quest log, party inventory and character driven story that just pulls you through it. With Suikoden 1, it's a mismash of different systems that seem to play against each other. We want big roster and individual inventories for characters yet only offer 3 or 4 party slots for you to use. We want a big epic story with good character designs and sprite art yet it comes across as stupid sometimes. Milich for instance appears on a dragon right as you find Liukan, kidnaps him and then rides off. No battle or anything.
It's just a really rough JRPG. I'm hoping Suikoden 2 is better.
 
Same, took me about 20 hours and Suikoden 1 is really rough
I played it around a decade ago on the PSN and I don't remember it as bad. Like yeah the huge cast was never going to work out besides the infuriating story segments where you need to split to 3 teams, though at least leveling is exponential and a lot of characters come pre equipped with gear/runes so you don't have much of a hassle.
The story was cool, the rune of the protagonist was edgy as fuck.
 
You have to juggle armor and items for all these people too.
Which means crossing the entire map several times until you recruit the right people to fulfill storage, items, and upgrade functions at your base. Insane tedium.
Tir ate her soul with the Soul Eater Rune and I missed that somehow.
I thought Odessa made sense, because she was trying to keep the resistance from being demoralized. On the other hand: All the generals being brainwashed except for your dad, who is apparently just a massive asshole, is fucking hilarious. Especially since they build him up as righteous the entire game. Then you just kill him for a power up lol.
 
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5 hours into Suikoden 2 and most complaints that I had about Suikoden 1 have been addressed.

Pretty cool to have a JRPG where you genuinely fear for every friendly character you meet.
 
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I thought Odessa made sense, because she was trying to keep the resistance from being demoralized. On the other hand: All the generals being brainwashed except for your dad, who is apparently just a massive asshole, is fucking hilarious. Especially since they build him up as righteous the entire game. Then you just kill him for a power up lol.
Loyalty to your leader is considered righteous in these games. Remember that it is based on a Chinese story, the Water Margin.

Also, only half the generals are brainwashed. Kasim Hazil (old guy) isn't, your dad isn't, and the lady your dad was sleeping with who was almost certainly going to be your stepmom if the war hadn't happened isn't. That lady is hardcore; she figured she was going to be raped so she was going to immolate herself instead.
 
Loyalty to your leader is considered righteous in these games. Remember that it is based on a Chinese story, the Water Margin.

Also, only half the generals are brainwashed. Kasim Hazil (old guy) isn't, your dad isn't,
Which makes it funnier that Kasim and Sonya will fight for you after a conversation. They have way less motivation to do so than Teo, but they do anyway. Especially Sonya, who absolutely hates you personally. It’s weird writing.
 
Has anybody but me downloaded the TENOKE rip from pirate bay and experienced extreme slowdown in game? I mean i suspect it's time for a new PC for me anyways but it should be able to fucking play this :(
:cringe:
 
Which makes it funnier that Kasim and Sonya will fight for you after a conversation. They have way less motivation to do so than Teo, but they do anyway. Especially Sonya, who absolutely hates you. It’s weird writing.
I kind of get it; the reason Teo dies is because he's A) loyal to a fault, and B) has an excuse of wanting to see his son be better than him. It's kind of a cultural thing that is kind of stupid in a game that is otherwise usually about pragmatism. You really have to feel bad for Sonya though.

Kasim's motivation is that he realizes Barbarossa is fucking up. It;'s the trope of "I am loyal enough to you as a person to tell you when you are fucking up." Sonya joins you because she wants to see you die, but she drops it near-immediately for no reason with a "you look more like your father every day." So it's really only Sonya who is weird. Her whole thing is pretty sad. Loses her mom in an accident, then loses the only man who treated her well out of respect as opposed to her looks.


I kind of like Suikoden 1's characters better than 2, with the exception of absolute standouts like Luca Blight. No other rune except maybe the Rune of Punishment in IV ever ends up even remotely stacking up to the Soul Eater though, it's sad.

But yeah a massive problem in all of these games is that there's just too many combat characters. So many interesting dudes you have no reason to use.
 
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Nevermind, just did the third army battle and lost the True Ending because the AI is hellbent on killing the person you can recruit.


Series is still insanely tedious. These fucking battles, holy shit. The encounter rate in the first game was pretty low, so dungeons didn’t feel nearly as annoying as this.
 
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Skill issue.
Weebs have no taste lol.

Game series sucks and even their reboot was a trash fire.

Seriously lol, 1,3,4 are absolute trash. 2 is the only decent game in the series, and that’s because it has an ok story by JRPG standards.
 
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