- Joined
- Apr 8, 2019
Presenting a thread on Konami's spunky JRPG franchise from back when they made video games.
Suikoden is a unique series as it bucks some common JRPG trends. Usually you have a small band of youths with spiky hair use the power of friendship to kill god or whatever. Suikoden games feature a gigantic team of all ages, using the power of friendship to defeat an enemy military force. The franchise lasted for 5 entries, with a few spinoffs here and there. Yoshitaka Murayama was the architect of the first three games, which all take place in the same world. While the stories of each game are different, there are background events that suggest a greater story is unfolding. Sadly, Murayama quit Konami around the time of Suikoden III's release. Konami would abandon Suikoden's developing metaplot and the final two games of the series would be prequels focusing on events hinted at in the Suikoden setting's history.
This series is notable for its impressive worldbuilding. While probably not on par with something like Falcom's Trails series, it has a very interconnected world and events that happen in one game affect the next. Most common are the concept of runes. Runes are sort of like FF VII's Materia. They're equippable suites of spells that grant the person bearing it powers related to the type of rune. For instance, the Water rune generally has healing magic, whereas the Fire rune generally has area of effect damage spells. The games do not feature an MP system, but instead a spells per rest system akin to D&D.
The most formidable are the 27 True Runes, which are often the catalysts for each game's story. These runes are practically gods in the setting, each representing a fundamental part of the world. The true rune Soul Eater governs life and death, for instance. Like regular runes, these can be born by a living user - but it is heavily implied these runes have a will of their own and can influence the user's decisions. They also grant the bearer of the rune immortality, stopping their aging process once the rune is embedded.
Gameplay-wise, Suikoden features a unique set of systems in each game. The large cast of characters, 6 man parties, war and duel battles, and the home base mechanic.
Here's a quick rundown on each mainline game:
Unfortunately Konami would put the kabosh on future entries and the numbered Suikoden series has remained dormant since Suikoden 5's release in 2006.
But wait! That's not all!
In 2020, Murayama surprised us all by announcing Rabbit & Bear studios, along with a kickstarter for a game called Eiyuden Chronicle: Hundred Heroes. Promising a return to the kind of storytelling, world, and characters of the Suikoden series, the game was successfully funded and now has a 2023 release date. There's not been much shown of the game yet, but it looks to capture the aesthetics of the PS1 Suikoden games, with some 2.5D flair. I am personally extremely excited for this game and can't wait to get my hands on it.
Have at it - what's your favorite entry? What's the deal with Yuber? Why does Konami hate its fans? Answer all these questions and more in this thread!
Suikoden is a unique series as it bucks some common JRPG trends. Usually you have a small band of youths with spiky hair use the power of friendship to kill god or whatever. Suikoden games feature a gigantic team of all ages, using the power of friendship to defeat an enemy military force. The franchise lasted for 5 entries, with a few spinoffs here and there. Yoshitaka Murayama was the architect of the first three games, which all take place in the same world. While the stories of each game are different, there are background events that suggest a greater story is unfolding. Sadly, Murayama quit Konami around the time of Suikoden III's release. Konami would abandon Suikoden's developing metaplot and the final two games of the series would be prequels focusing on events hinted at in the Suikoden setting's history.
This series is notable for its impressive worldbuilding. While probably not on par with something like Falcom's Trails series, it has a very interconnected world and events that happen in one game affect the next. Most common are the concept of runes. Runes are sort of like FF VII's Materia. They're equippable suites of spells that grant the person bearing it powers related to the type of rune. For instance, the Water rune generally has healing magic, whereas the Fire rune generally has area of effect damage spells. The games do not feature an MP system, but instead a spells per rest system akin to D&D.
The most formidable are the 27 True Runes, which are often the catalysts for each game's story. These runes are practically gods in the setting, each representing a fundamental part of the world. The true rune Soul Eater governs life and death, for instance. Like regular runes, these can be born by a living user - but it is heavily implied these runes have a will of their own and can influence the user's decisions. They also grant the bearer of the rune immortality, stopping their aging process once the rune is embedded.
Gameplay-wise, Suikoden features a unique set of systems in each game. The large cast of characters, 6 man parties, war and duel battles, and the home base mechanic.
The first is each game's cast size. There is always 108 characters that can be recruited throughout the game. Reportedly, this is thanks to Murayama telling his manager about the influences the book The Water Margin had on his concept for Suikoden. Murayama was thinking about the setting and the aesthetic, his manager was thinking about the selling point of having 108 characters. As it was the style at the time, several characters can become permanently missable in each game if you progress the story too far. The games don't go out of their way to tell the player this, so unless you have a walkthrough next to you, be prepared to miss out on a few. Missing all 108 will lock you out of each game's "true ending." Have fun with that!
With the exception of IV, each mainline game features 6 man parties. Parties are arranged in a 3x2 grid - a front and back row. The front row being for characters categorized as Short or Medium range, and the back also for Medium or Long range characters. Similar to Chrono Trigger, each game has "unite attacks" that allow several characters to devote their turns to doing a single powerful attack. Things like gear and accessories also factor into party characters, but each character has a unique weapon. Rather than buying new weapons for each character, there's instead a blacksmith system where you level up a character's weapon by "sharpening" it. Each game generally features 16 levels for each weapon's sharpness rating.
War and Duel battles are unique, story-based moments in the games. War battles take a different form in every game, but represent the army the protagonist is fighting for going up against an enemy force. They are plot-based, but are up to the player to win them. Duel battles remain mostly the same throughout the entire series. They represent one-on-one battles, usually fought by the protagonist. They are rock paper scissors fights, with Attack, Defend, and Desperate Attack being the options. The enemy will often call out something before the player selects an action - indicating what sort of attack they'll be making.
The home base mechanic is often cited as a key selling point of the series. Each game features the protagonist gaining access to a home base of some kind. The base grows as the game continues and the player recruits more people. The base changes depending on the types of characters recruited. If a player recruits an inventor, they might get an elevator installed to travel easier. If they recruit a gambler, he might open up a gambling den and end up financing the entire army (in 1 at least). If they recruit a chef, they might start getting challenged to Iron Chef style battles. If they recruit a little kid he might... stand outside the castle and tell people what its name is. There's 108 characters in each game, not all of them can be winners.
With the exception of IV, each mainline game features 6 man parties. Parties are arranged in a 3x2 grid - a front and back row. The front row being for characters categorized as Short or Medium range, and the back also for Medium or Long range characters. Similar to Chrono Trigger, each game has "unite attacks" that allow several characters to devote their turns to doing a single powerful attack. Things like gear and accessories also factor into party characters, but each character has a unique weapon. Rather than buying new weapons for each character, there's instead a blacksmith system where you level up a character's weapon by "sharpening" it. Each game generally features 16 levels for each weapon's sharpness rating.
War and Duel battles are unique, story-based moments in the games. War battles take a different form in every game, but represent the army the protagonist is fighting for going up against an enemy force. They are plot-based, but are up to the player to win them. Duel battles remain mostly the same throughout the entire series. They represent one-on-one battles, usually fought by the protagonist. They are rock paper scissors fights, with Attack, Defend, and Desperate Attack being the options. The enemy will often call out something before the player selects an action - indicating what sort of attack they'll be making.
The home base mechanic is often cited as a key selling point of the series. Each game features the protagonist gaining access to a home base of some kind. The base grows as the game continues and the player recruits more people. The base changes depending on the types of characters recruited. If a player recruits an inventor, they might get an elevator installed to travel easier. If they recruit a gambler, he might open up a gambling den and end up financing the entire army (in 1 at least). If they recruit a chef, they might start getting challenged to Iron Chef style battles. If they recruit a little kid he might... stand outside the castle and tell people what its name is. There's 108 characters in each game, not all of them can be winners.
Here's a quick rundown on each mainline game:
Suikoden 1
The story of Tir McDohl inheriting the True Rune Soul Eater. Tir finds himself the leader of a rebellion against his home nation of The Scarlet Moon empire. This brings him in opposition to his father, one of the Scarlet Moon's finest generals. This is the first entry in the franchise, and set a lot of the series standards. The seeds of the in-depth storytelling the series is known for are sown here, but there is still some rough edges to the game. The region the game takes place is can feel a bit like a generic fantasy world with elves, dwarves, dragon knights, and proud warrior guys all stuck in different corners.
Suikoden 2
Riou and Jowy are thrust into stopping war when they witness the false flag attack from their own nation that begins it. They eventually inherit a shattered true rune that gives them the powers of the Bright Shield and Black Sword respectively. Each develops a different idea of how to bring peace to the land, and their destinies begin to diverge. Suikoden 2 is widely considered to be the best game in the series. It features a well realized cast of characters, and the setting of the City-States of Jowston and the Highland Kingdom are fleshed out far more than the Scarlet Moon Empire was in Suiko 1. I easily rank Suikoden 2 as one of my top games of all time and still replay it to this day.
Suikoden 3
Opting out of having a single main character, Suikoden 3 follows three separate storylines for a good deal of its runtime. Geddoe and his band of soldiers moderately serving the Holy Harmonia, Chris and the Zexen Knights, and Hugo and his Grasslands friends. They each unravel a conspiracy that goes beyond war - but into the very nature of the True Runes themselves and a mysterious figure known as the Flame Champion. This game ties up several loose ends from the first two games, but also implies further insights into a few that never got resolved thanks to Murayama's departure. Personally I find this game a little slow-paced and the changes they made to the combat system didn't do it a lot of favors.
Suikoden 4
The era of prequels begins. Taking place 150 years before Suikoden 1, this is the story of the beginning of the Island Nations - a place referenced several times in previous games but never visited before. This if the first game to not feature Murayama at the helm. A major change is the switch to four person parties, simplifying the combat system from the first 3 entries. 4 also takes place in the ocean, and gives the player a giant ship as their headquarters. The story involves the protagonist, Razro/Lazro finding the True Rune of Punishment, a rune that gives the bearer incredible power while also slowly killing them. Is there a way to stop this fate? I'll be honest, this is my least favorite game in the franchise, and I don't believe I'm alone in that opinion. Dropping the recurring storyline from the first three games was already a big bummer, but the plot is much weaker than the previous entries and several character motivations feel rushed or half-baked.
Suikoden 5
The final numbered entry in the franchise. Suikoden 5 is the story of the Prince Freyjadour, or Frey, of Falena. The Queendom of Falena was mentioned several times, particularly in Suikoden 2. Several characters from 2 return as recruitable party members and their storylines are expanded upon. This is also a prequel, taking place a decade or so before Suikoden 1. While it doesn't reach the highs of Suikoden 2 or explores the nature of the setting like 3, I enjoy Suikoden 5. I felt like it was a good attempt at returning to form and do more with Suikoden in a post-Murayama world.
The story of Tir McDohl inheriting the True Rune Soul Eater. Tir finds himself the leader of a rebellion against his home nation of The Scarlet Moon empire. This brings him in opposition to his father, one of the Scarlet Moon's finest generals. This is the first entry in the franchise, and set a lot of the series standards. The seeds of the in-depth storytelling the series is known for are sown here, but there is still some rough edges to the game. The region the game takes place is can feel a bit like a generic fantasy world with elves, dwarves, dragon knights, and proud warrior guys all stuck in different corners.
Suikoden 2
Riou and Jowy are thrust into stopping war when they witness the false flag attack from their own nation that begins it. They eventually inherit a shattered true rune that gives them the powers of the Bright Shield and Black Sword respectively. Each develops a different idea of how to bring peace to the land, and their destinies begin to diverge. Suikoden 2 is widely considered to be the best game in the series. It features a well realized cast of characters, and the setting of the City-States of Jowston and the Highland Kingdom are fleshed out far more than the Scarlet Moon Empire was in Suiko 1. I easily rank Suikoden 2 as one of my top games of all time and still replay it to this day.
Suikoden 3
Opting out of having a single main character, Suikoden 3 follows three separate storylines for a good deal of its runtime. Geddoe and his band of soldiers moderately serving the Holy Harmonia, Chris and the Zexen Knights, and Hugo and his Grasslands friends. They each unravel a conspiracy that goes beyond war - but into the very nature of the True Runes themselves and a mysterious figure known as the Flame Champion. This game ties up several loose ends from the first two games, but also implies further insights into a few that never got resolved thanks to Murayama's departure. Personally I find this game a little slow-paced and the changes they made to the combat system didn't do it a lot of favors.
Suikoden 4
The era of prequels begins. Taking place 150 years before Suikoden 1, this is the story of the beginning of the Island Nations - a place referenced several times in previous games but never visited before. This if the first game to not feature Murayama at the helm. A major change is the switch to four person parties, simplifying the combat system from the first 3 entries. 4 also takes place in the ocean, and gives the player a giant ship as their headquarters. The story involves the protagonist, Razro/Lazro finding the True Rune of Punishment, a rune that gives the bearer incredible power while also slowly killing them. Is there a way to stop this fate? I'll be honest, this is my least favorite game in the franchise, and I don't believe I'm alone in that opinion. Dropping the recurring storyline from the first three games was already a big bummer, but the plot is much weaker than the previous entries and several character motivations feel rushed or half-baked.
Suikoden 5
The final numbered entry in the franchise. Suikoden 5 is the story of the Prince Freyjadour, or Frey, of Falena. The Queendom of Falena was mentioned several times, particularly in Suikoden 2. Several characters from 2 return as recruitable party members and their storylines are expanded upon. This is also a prequel, taking place a decade or so before Suikoden 1. While it doesn't reach the highs of Suikoden 2 or explores the nature of the setting like 3, I enjoy Suikoden 5. I felt like it was a good attempt at returning to form and do more with Suikoden in a post-Murayama world.
Unfortunately Konami would put the kabosh on future entries and the numbered Suikoden series has remained dormant since Suikoden 5's release in 2006.
But wait! That's not all!
In 2020, Murayama surprised us all by announcing Rabbit & Bear studios, along with a kickstarter for a game called Eiyuden Chronicle: Hundred Heroes. Promising a return to the kind of storytelling, world, and characters of the Suikoden series, the game was successfully funded and now has a 2023 release date. There's not been much shown of the game yet, but it looks to capture the aesthetics of the PS1 Suikoden games, with some 2.5D flair. I am personally extremely excited for this game and can't wait to get my hands on it.
Have at it - what's your favorite entry? What's the deal with Yuber? Why does Konami hate its fans? Answer all these questions and more in this thread!
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