Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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The Ocampa are a shitty backwards and genetically doomed race that deserved to be wiped out.

That Janeway would risk the safety of her (and Chakotay's) entire crew to save like 100 of them in the first episode really shows what a lack of judgement she would display for the entire rest of the show.
 
Jerri's Kid said:
She got mad at Janeway because she went senile and forgot large chunks of what happened on Voyager. Imagine a race that only lives to be nine without assistance, can only breed once in a lifetime, and has immense psychic powers but also senility. They're the screamapillars of Star Trek:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=1uWTDbfZHQo
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Sure, there was some (admittedly harebrained) reason to bring her back like this, but it still undermined Kes' farewell. It's so pointless.
You had a somewhat touching goodbye scene and Voyager and Kes parting ways, then she's back and tearing Plasma relays asunder with her mind, while she yells something about being betrayed or whatever.
It might be justifiable with the lore and her going senile, but narratively speaking it makes no sense, it devalues her departure. Next time one watches the episode of her leaving, all you can think is "She'll be back in a couple episodes and she'll be pissed".

Also, what point is there in becoming some transcended being, when she goes senile just a year later, that sort of undermines that whole thing, too.

Slightly OT: God, that caterpillar episode of the Simpsons. I remember watching it when it was brand new and thinking to myself "This is complete garbage" and realizing that Simpsons was dead. That was 17 seasons ago. Geez.

Shitassdeaddude said:
Literally the only thing in Voyager that works is the Doctor, and even a few of his episodes ended up being stinkers.
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He's my favorite Character in all of Star Trek.
 
Love Soze said:
It's my favorite too, for very personal reasons. Too many people confuse "favorite" for "best" and get really mad when I say Voyager is my favorite.
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The reverse is also true. Too many people think their feelings validate some art as masterpieces. As long as one can admit that the quality of a work is independent of one's feelings, we all good. (Heck, I adore Pacific Rim but will admit it's just pure junk food.)
 
Love Soze said:
It's my favorite too, for very personal reasons. Too many people confuse "favorite" for "best" and get really mad when I say Voyager is my favorite.
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People on the Internet get very, very angry about people liking things. It makes them mad.
 
Flexo said:
The reverse is also true. Too many people think their feelings validate some art as masterpieces. As long as one can admit that the quality of a work is independent of one's feelings, we all good. (Heck, I adore Pacific Rim but will admit it's just pure junk food.)
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Definitely. If someone said Voyager was "the best" Star Trek...I don't even know what to do with that. But Voyager gives me the warm fuzzies. I will always love it, despite how terrible to mediocre a lot (ok, most) of episodes were.
 
Love Soze said:
Definitely. If someone said Voyager was "the best" Star Trek...I don't even know what to do with that. But Voyager gives me the warm fuzzies. I will always love it, despite how terrible to mediocre a lot (ok, most) of episodes were.
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This is the textbook definition of Stockholm Syndrome. I'll admit that Voyager has some good episodes and one or two likeable characters, but the average episodes is, at best, white noise to put on when you're trying to go to sleep.
 
Hot take: Voyager would have been great if not for DS9 and to a lesser extent TNG proving that you can do both alien of the week and keep a consistent main plot line going at the same time.

Voyager went a little too far back to the original series roots.

Like if you watch this then like 2 seasons of TNG then watch Voyager I bet you wouldn't see as many of the issues.
 
gobbogobb said:
Hot take: Voyager would have been great if not for DS9 and to a lesser extent TNG proving that you can do both alien of the week and keep a consistent main plot line going at the same time.

Voyager went a little too far back to the original series roots.

Like if you watch this then like 2 seasons of TNG then watch Voyager I bet you wouldn't see as many of the issues.
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Scorpion.
Year of Hell.
The Void.

Notice how every one of the best episodes of Voyager are the ones where it actually followed through on its premise?
 
gobbogobb said:
Like if you watch this then like 2 seasons of TNG then watch Voyager I bet you wouldn't see as many of the issues.
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If TNG and DS9 never existed Voyager would still be better than.. Andromeda?

Admittedly, story repetition did hurt Voyager and Enterprise. But even if you wipe every better show from existence, there's still the problem of the characters. Maybe the characters could be fixed by better writing. Maybe Chakotay and Tuvok won't have the same personality. Maybe Ensign Kim won't have the charisma of dry wall. Maybe Tom Paris will get to be the hot shot pilot he's supposed to be instead of Chakotay's bitch. I dunno. When Neelix is in the top 5 best characters in the show, something's wrong. Something's deeply, DEEPLY wrong.

Top 5 Voyager Characters:
1. Doctor
2. 7 of 9
3. B'Elanna
4. Neelix
5. Janeway
 
Stab You in the Back said:
If TNG and DS9 never existed Voyager would still be better than.. Andromeda?

Admittedly, story repetition did hurt Voyager and Enterprise. But even if you wipe every better show from existence, there's still the problem of the characters. Maybe the characters could be fixed by better writing. Maybe Chakotay and Tuvok won't have the same personality. Maybe Ensign Kim won't have the charisma of dry wall. Maybe Tom Paris will get to be the hot shot pilot he's supposed to be instead of Chakotay's bitch. I dunno. When Neelix is in the top 5 best characters in the show, something's wrong. Something's deeply, DEEPLY wrong.

Top 5 Voyager Characters:
1. Doctor
2. 7 of 9
3. B'Elanna
4. Neelix
5. Janeway
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Sorry, but Neelix isnt even in the top 100 best characters of Voyager. I'll go down a list of 1 shots and extras if I have to.
 
Best Voyager chars
1 doc
2 seven
3 seska
4 the ship
5 Barclay

I have no opinion on discovery as I only saw ep 1 and 2.

Another hot take: The Voyager crew is lucky they got thrown halfway across the Galaxy. If they were under the command of Janeway in the Dominion war they all have died in the first battle.
 
Kyria the Great said:
Well if you like those series, you are probably going to love DS9. Honestly it is the best Star Trek series in my opinion with one of the best captains hands down with Avery Brooks going to knock it out of the park as Benjamin Sisko once he finds his footing.
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Thank you! I will be sure to check it out. I've seen some clips and I already like Sisko and the Ferengi.
 
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