Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

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Holdek said:
Are there any plans for DS9 to be remastered?
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Not at present. They took a beating on the TNG sets and TOS. I heard they have already disbanded the restoration team once TWOK was done.
 
Shit did they put Chief O'Brien on DS9 just so they can make him get fucked up. There were two back to back fucking episodes of Chief O'Brien being an absolute trooper in the worst situations. First, he gets infected by a biological weapon and is pretty much useless (but sweet as always).
Then, he gets god damned replicated and his replicant acts like a god damned action hero when everyone is acting like a cunt to him and dies when some alien scum shoots him prematurely. Like Jesus Christ, even a replicant of Chief O'Brien that was created to fuck up some peace talk still has a good heart and is cool as fuck. How cool can one former Transporter Operator get?

And Odo is just a sweetheart. Man it's impossible not to love him when it comes to episodes like Shadow Play and The Forsaken (that episode also made Lwaxana tolerable which I don't think she was at all in TNG except for the episode where she behaved like a normal fucking person and became conscious of her age and loneliness).
And Sisko is way too good, like hot damn. Great dad and an absolute bad ass, he feels like the absolute opposite of Picard and it's really interesting.

I kind of agree with Melty though. Jadzia doesn't really stand out to me aside from being a walking slug. I was hoping someone who had the experiences and personalities of 7 different people inside of her would be quirky or interesting aside from being really wise, but that's all she really is I guess. I like her, but she's not as great as the rest of the cast.
Stories finally caught up with the characters too in DS9. I really liked Season 1, but the stories were a little lacking compared to the character interactions. Feels like they're more balanced in the middle of Season 2.

Also went back to TNG and am on episode 6 of Season 7. Really surprised at this, but it feels like it's gone a little bit back to being troublesome to get through the episodes. I don't think I'm burnt out on Picard or his crew, but the stories just don't seem all that fun. Descent was a kind of mediocre two-parter and Gambit had a horrible fucking ending (god damned telepathic weapon they were running after turned out to be a joke. Shitty force push with bad CG to go along with it and it's useless when you want to hurt someone who isn't violent towards you). It's pretty disappointing after Season 6 and 5. I'll revisit it again after I'm done with DS9 Season 2. Or Season 3. Hard to stop watching DS9 right now honestly.
 
Not at present. They took a beating on the TNG sets and TOS. I heard they have already disbanded the restoration team once TWOK was done.
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Was there an HD remastering of Wrath of Khan?

As for DS9, the TNG HD remasterings didn't meet sales expectations, I believe because many thought they were too expensive (like when the Trek series first came out on DVD) and now you can watch the remastered episodes on Netflix, so no ones rushing to buy them. Unfortunately this means there's no rush to remaster DS9 or Voyager.

Season 7.
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Season 7 of TNG is considered a weaker season than most, but it also has some of the best episodes like Lower Decks, Parallels, The Pegasus, Pre-emptive Strike and the series finale All Good Things..(alongside Yesterdays Enterprise, it might be my favorite Trek episode)
Overall it has more dull and shitty episodes than good, but because it also has a few of the best in the series, I'm more forgiving toward it. It's better IMO than the largely dull first two seasons of DS9 however, and not anywhere near as bad as TNGs first two seasons.
 
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Huntin' Slash said:
@GeorgeDaMoose where are you in DS9 now?
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Middle of Season 3. Just finished the two-parter Past Tense which was fucking outstanding. The Search was also really good, The Dominion is super-interesting as new antagonists. Second Skin and Defiant were two really good Cardassian episodes, with Second Skin being a little better because Kira getting closer to a Cardassian is pretty interesting.
In my last post I had just finished watching Playing God in the middle of Season 2 and man the show gets even better from there. The Maquis was too damn good and after that came an amazing Garak episode (The Wire). Pretty sure I haven't mentioned him at all, but Garak is really, really great. He's a really fun and mysterious character and he was on a totally other level in The Wire. The Collaborator was a really excellent episode too with a Vendek Bareil getting shit from everyone. Had a really cool twist at the end too, actually surprised me a bit.

I'm also convinced that the writers absolutely hate Miles O'Brien now. Like Jesus Christ, in ONE season he was infected with a bioweapon, cloned just so he could suffer, and got himself caught in a shitty Cardassian trial. I'm expecting him to lose an arm or to turn into a vegetable by the end of Season 3 at this rate.

Man this is really good though. I'm afraid I'll never finish TNG if it stays this fun. I really like how episodes like The Maquis shit all over the Federation though. It's very interesting to go from a series that sucks off the Federation like TNG/TOS to DS9 which isn't afraid to point out some problems with it. In a way thought it feels like DS9's goal is to test the Federation in it's own setting rather than to just make them look bad. I'm only really convinced of this by a small conversation between Bashir and Sisko in Past Tense, but even if I'm wrong that's okay. Nothing wrong with putting the Federation/Starfleet (which has been shown to be nearly perfect) in TOS/TNG in a bad light.
 
Huntin' Slash said:
@GeorgeDaMoose where are you in DS9 now?
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The smartass inside of me wants to say habitat level 3 section 5
GeorgeDaMoose said:
Middle of Season 3. Just finished the two-parter Past Tense which was fucking outstanding. The Search was also really good, The Dominion is super-interesting as new antagonists. Second Skin and Defiant were two really good Cardassian episodes, with Second Skin being a little better because Kira getting closer to a Cardassian is pretty interesting.
In my last post I had just finished watching Playing God in the middle of Season 2 and man the show gets even better from there. The Maquis was too damn good and after that came an amazing Garak episode (The Wire). Pretty sure I haven't mentioned him at all, but Garak is really, really great. He's a really fun and mysterious character and he was on a totally other level in The Wire. The Collaborator was a really excellent episode too with a Vendek Bareil getting shit from everyone. Had a really cool twist at the end too, actually surprised me a bit.

I'm also convinced that the writers absolutely hate Miles O'Brien now. Like Jesus Christ, in ONE season he was infected with a bioweapon, cloned just so he could suffer, and got himself caught in a shitty Cardassian trial. I'm expecting him to lose an arm or to turn into a vegetable by the end of Season 3 at this rate.

Man this is really good though. I'm afraid I'll never finish TNG if it stays this fun. I really like how episodes like The Maquis shit all over the Federation though. It's very interesting to go from a series that sucks off the Federation like TNG/TOS to DS9 which isn't afraid to point out some problems with it. In a way thought it feels like DS9's goal is to test the Federation in it's own setting rather than to just make them look bad. I'm only really convinced of this by a small conversation between Bashir and Sisko in Past Tense, but even if I'm wrong that's okay. Nothing wrong with putting the Federation/Starfleet (which has been shown to be nearly perfect) in TOS/TNG in a bad light.
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DS9 would have Roddenberry rolling in his grave, but I love it so.
 
Okay I have a question: Is the negative effect warp energy is having on space ever going to be revisited?
Just watched the episode (TNG Season 7, Ep 9), seems like a pretty huge thing to be worried about.

Also DS9 just keeps getting better. Improbable Cause/The Die is Cast was top tier, was wondering when the Founders would start taking advantage of their abilities in a more serious fashion on screen. I'm also super happy they're continuing to explore the parallel universe that Kirk absolutely fucked up beyond belief. Man he had good intentions, but shit he fucked up way too bad. Anyways, it's cool that humans are the underdog in that universe and I really like the alternate personalities of the cast. Quark/Rom being good people, Kira being a queen cunt, Sisko being a kickass pirate-rebel, etc. Shit is just really fun to watch. Will be sad to go back to TNG, but I've gotta finish that soon.
 
GeorgeDaMoose said:
Okay I have a question: Is the negative effect warp energy is having on space ever going to be revisited?
Just watched the episode (TNG Season 7, Ep 9), seems like a pretty huge thing to be worried about.
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I think it's mentioned twice afterwards, and then quietly forgotten. The general consensus was Starfleet were able to make changes to the way the warp field blah blah blah..... problem fixed.

GeorgeDaMoose said:
Also DS9 just keeps getting better. Improbable Cause/The Die is Cast was top tier, was wondering when the Founders would start taking advantage of their abilities in a more serious fashion on screen. I'm also super happy they're continuing to explore the parallel universe that Kirk absolutely fucked up beyond belief. Man he had good intentions, but shit he fucked up way too bad. Anyways, it's cool that humans are the underdog in that universe and I really like the alternate personalities of the cast. Quark/Rom being good people, Kira being a queen cunt, Sisko being a kickass pirate-rebel, etc. Shit is just really fun to watch. Will be sad to go back to TNG, but I've gotta finish that soon.
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DS9 had unique takes on the Trek universe to be sure. Hearing Kira name drop Kirk was one of those *squee* moments I've occasionally had.
I envy you getting to see it for the first time. It's old hat for me now, but I remember at the time how fantastic it was that we were finally getting long complicated stories with a fully developed setting. The Trek of DS9 never felt more real with any other incarnation. Instead of the near perfect crew of the 1701-D, we had a hugely flawed central cast of people that we could identify with better. Enjoy it fam, enjoy it.
 
Okay I have a question: Is the negative effect warp energy is having on space ever going to be revisited?
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No. It's mentioned once again, and then thrown away. In fact "All Good Things" has the Enterprise D going to warp 13 in the future, showing they had already forgotten it by the end of the season. I think the in-universe explanation is something to do with pylons fixing it..or whatever. It was a bad episode so thankfully the idea was shitcanned.

I'm also super happy they're continuing to explore the parallel universe
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Again, pretty interesting you enjoy those as the consensus IIRC is that those "Mirror Universe" DS9 episodes are pretty bad. I think The Agony Booth even tore into them some time ago. I don't like them because I don't like the mirror universe, and the DS9 episodes on it go nowhere. I think Trek did far better parallel universe/timeline episodes in stuff like "Yesterdays Enterprise" and "Parallels" personally. TNG did those high concept sci-fi stuff better than the other series, IMO
 
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projecteddrama said:
Again, pretty interesting you enjoy those as the consensus IIRC is that those "Mirror Universe" DS9 episodes are pretty bad. I think The Agony Booth even tore into them some time ago. I don't like them because I don't like the mirror universe, and the DS9 episodes on it go nowhere. I think Trek did far better parallel universe/timeline episodes in stuff like "Yesterdays Enterprise" and "Parallels" personally. TNG did those high concept sci-fi stuff better than the other series, IMO
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I like them for how cringingly hammy they are. Like the ENT Mirror take. Plus strip away the scenery chewing and it's a real fascinating take on the repercussions of meddling in things.
 
projecteddrama said:
No. It's mentioned once again, and then thrown away. In fact "All Good Things" has the Enterprise D going to warp 13 in the future, showing they had already forgotten it by the end of the season. I think the in-universe explanation is something to do with pylons fixing it..or whatever. It was a bad episode so thankfully the idea was shitcanned.

Again, pretty interesting you enjoy those as the consensus IIRC is that those "Mirror Universe" DS9 episodes are pretty bad. I think The Agony Booth even tore into them some time ago. I don't like them because I don't like the mirror universe, and the DS9 episodes on it go nowhere. I think Trek did far better parallel universe/timeline episodes in stuff like "Yesterdays Enterprise" and "Parallels" personally. TNG did those high concept sci-fi stuff better than the other series, IMO
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I liked the idea of space travel hurting space to be honest. The episode wasn't great, but I liked the idea a lot.

Also the alt universe is so great in the sense that every actor just looks like they're having a blast filming it. I pretty much start laughing whenever Kira shows up and does her overly-happy-psycho act. Then Sisko pops up and starts acting like a rogue and it's just great. Like Yankee said, it's hammy and I think everyone knew it. I love ham now and then so it's perfect for me. And there aren't many mirror episodes at all so it never gets grating. I think last time I checked there's only 5.
 
I liked the idea of space travel hurting space to be honest. The episode wasn't great, but I liked the idea a lot.
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Could have been a good idea, agreed. It's obviously an analogy on fossil fuels, but unfortunately they just made it some ham fisted environmental episode and never revisited it. Voyagers Omega Particles plot was better IMO. They should have used that more.

Also the alt universe is so great in the sense that every actor just looks like they're having a blast filming it. I pretty much start laughing whenever Kira shows up and does her overly-happy-psycho act. Then Sisko pops up and starts acting like a rogue and it's just great. Like Yankee said, it's hammy and I think everyone knew it. I love ham now and then so it's perfect for me. And there aren't many mirror episodes at all so it never gets grating. I think last time I checked there's only 5.
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Interesting, that's why I didn't like them. They seemed like corny, fan servicey distractions from the actual story arcs on DS9. Also if you want real fun on DS9, watch Trials and Tribble-altions, which is probably my favorite DS9 episode, next to Pale Moonlight. But the mirror universe DS9 episodes just suck IMO.

To me, a universe where Star Trek becomes a comic book full of mustache twirling villains is not very interesting. I like the concept of alternate universes, esp in TNG. Just not the mirror universe. Two episodes after "Force of Nature" is Parallels in fact, one of my favorites in the entire franchise.

I like them for how cringingly hammy they are. Like the ENT Mirror take. Plus strip away the scenery chewing and it's a real fascinating take on the repercussions of meddling in things.
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I actually like the Enterprise two parter than any of the DS9 ones. It was a loving homage to the original Mirror episode.
 
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I didn't particularly like the ds9 mirror episodes either, but I didn't think they were bad. I didn't realize they were not well liked.
The mirror episodes in enterprise were easily the best of that series, it's like they just said fuck it it's the last season but ended up with something awesome.
I watched TOS balance of terror last night. It reiterated my feeling that I really love the Romulans. I think they might my favorite species in the show, I really like every episode they're in that I've seen and the one in voyager and the defector in TNG hit me in my feels pretty hard.
 
XYZpdq said:
Keiko is so awful they have to put Bajorns next to her to make her not the worst person.
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I honestly don't know what any of you dislike about Keiko. She's not that bad. She's not very interesting, but I've never been like "Fuck Keiko!". The only thing I really, really don't like about her is that she turned O'Brien into a Japaboo. Like fuck, all he does is eat Jap and breathe Jap now. Really annoying, I was hoping they'd mix interests and cultures instead of O'Brien being a bitch boy and giving up his heritage.

melty said:
I didn't particularly like the ds9 mirror episodes either, but I didn't think they were bad. I didn't realize they were not well liked.
The mirror episodes in enterprise were easily the best of that series, it's like they just said fuck it it's the last season but ended up with something awesome.
I watched TOS balance of terror last night. It reiterated my feeling that I really love the Romulans. I think they might my favorite species in the show, I really like every episode they're in that I've seen and the one in voyager and the defector in TNG hit me in my feels pretty hard.
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Balance of Terror is so damn good. I like the Cardassians and the Romulans a lot, Balance of Terror definitely made me fall in love with Romulans though. The Defector was a very feels-y episode. Really sad ending, but I like that it ends on a bit of a hopeful note.
 
I didn't particularly like the ds9 mirror episodes either, but I didn't think they were bad. I didn't realize they were not well liked.
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What I've gathered, they are. Most reviews I've seen of them are negative. I don't "hate" them, they're just uninteresting and poor episodes.

http://www.agonybooth.com/tag/the-mirror-universe

the defector in TNG hit me in my feels pretty hard.
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The Defector is one of the best episodes in all of Trek, hands down.
 
As far as I'm concerned, the really bad episodes are usually just as entertaining as the really good episodes, in their own way. The episodes I don't like are the average, boring ones and the Mirror Universe certainly isn't either of those.
 
Well, they're not Spocks Brain or Ferengi episodes bad, nor are they Dominion arc good..so to me they are actually just sub-average. I didn't even remember half of them until I rewatched the show on Netflix. What an odd thing for DS9 to revisit.
 
Jesus Christ, I didn't expect Season 7 of TNG to actually have any downright terrible episodes. Sub Rosa was garbage, The Child-tier garbage, made-me-want-to-gouge-my-eyes-out garbage. And holy fuck I felt the same about Journey's End. It sucks because the last two Wesley episodes were pretty decent. Wesley trying to save his life and Picard's was pretty great because it didn't feel like he pulled a magic solution out of his ass and when he was on trial it felt great to see boy-wonder taken down a notch. But hot damn, who thought it was a good idea to make Wesley a Space God AND an intolerable asshole?
Season 7 in general is just really, really boring. It had a good streak with Inheritance to The Pegasus and Thine Own Self was pretty great. But man it's just not fun to watch most of the time. Even if All Good Things is a good finale, it's really disappointing that this is the season that TNG ends on.
 
GeorgeDaMoose said:
Jesus Christ, I didn't expect Season 7 of TNG to actually have any downright terrible episodes. Sub Rosa was garbage, The Child-tier garbage, made-me-want-to-gouge-my-eyes-out garbage. And holy fuck I felt the same about Journey's End. It sucks because the last two Wesley episodes were pretty decent. Wesley trying to save his life and Picard's was pretty great because it didn't feel like he pulled a magic solution out of his ass and when he was on trial it felt great to see boy-wonder taken down a notch. But hot damn, who thought it was a good idea to make Wesley a Space God AND an intolerable asshole?
Season 7 in general is just really, really boring. It had a good streak with Inheritance to The Pegasus and Thine Own Self was pretty great. But man it's just not fun to watch most of the time. Even if All Good Things is a good finale, it's really disappointing that this is the season that TNG ends on.
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No arguments here. They really were scraping the bottom of the barrel by that point.
 
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