Sperg about comic books here

  • Want to keep track of this thread?
    Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
    Create account
The ironic thing is that Zeus would straight up rape everyone. I'm serious. Men and women both.

I do like Wondy's line to Supes that "When I deal with them I  deal with them." No feminist bullshit. Straight and to the point. Also the Heketia is a seminal piece of her history imo. The fight with Bruce was epic.
True, Zeus’s status as a member of the lgbt community being ignored and excused is frankly disgusting and the only example I can think of that accurately reflects the “true” Zeus is his Marvel counterpart beating Banner worse than Brian ever did, even though the rape is more metaphorical it still was absolutely brutal.
IMG_3589.jpeg IMG_3590.jpeg
Only time Marvel Zeus has ever had a W, he wrote a lot of checks with this fight that couldn’t be cashed.

Diana actually gave a Punisher speech to Clark? That’s in Infinite Crisis or the lead-up right?
 
1712506028360.png


1712506103417.png


Reading the JMS bits of Wondy. It's not bad, but how many times did the '00s retread the whole "Who is Wonder Woman?" schtick? No wonder people have issues with the character's identity. Interesting to see Dr. Psycho take a less fucked up characterization.

Diana gets to deal with her one identity introspection thing being "who is Wondy/Diana" and then the Amazons or the Olympians do shit but it never affects shit outside of her book.

Seeing all the set pieces of Wondy's stuff for the past 30? years of stories, it's like looking at a big jigsaw puzzle that noone wants to put together. We've got the pieces, the good ideas, the potential. It just seems that DC just doesn't want to do anything properly with her mythos beyond monsters and gods. Which is fine, but we just wind up with Wondy being in the crosshairs of divine shit all the time. It's a shame, but she just doesn't have much in the DCU beyond her basics.
 
True, Zeus’s status as a member of the lgbt community being ignored and excused is frankly disgusting and the only example I can think of that accurately reflects the “true” Zeus is his Marvel counterpart beating Banner worse than Brian ever did, even though the rape is more metaphorical it still was absolutely brutal.
View attachment 5885160View attachment 5885161
Only time Marvel Zeus has ever had a W, he wrote a lot of checks with this fight that couldn’t be cashed.

Diana actually gave a Punisher speech to Clark? That’s in Infinite Crisis or the lead-up right?
3159623-1.png
 
>Niggas saying a static knife fight that’s shittier than Prince Valiant is the peak and manga can’t compare

I’m pretty sure Japanese did similar static shit for history books and as Technical artists. One of my libraries as a kid, I loved reading it. The problem is that American artists never improved, they regressed as time went on.

Iirc Japan had a Civil War with more realistic artist vs cartoonists for how they wanted to present themselves. It lead to people compromises.
 
>Niggas saying a static knife fight that’s shittier than Prince Valiant is the peak and manga can’t compare

I’m pretty sure Japanese did similar static shit for history books and as Technical artists. One of my libraries as a kid, I loved reading it. The problem is that American artists never improved, they regressed as time went on.

Iirc Japan had a Civil War with more realistic artist vs cartoonists for how they wanted to present themselves. It lead to people compromises.
I kinda notice that a lot of American comics kinda are still stuck being majorly influenced by either the sorta semi-realism with Ditko/Perez/Garcia-Lopez, the odd dynamic-centric Kirby, or the sorta expressionist? Frank Miller style stuff. There's other elements I'm sure, but it never really went beyond this iirc.
 
I kinda notice that a lot of American comics kinda are still stuck being majorly influenced by either the sorta semi-realism with Ditko/Perez/Garcia-Lopez, the odd dynamic-centric Kirby, or the sorta expressionist? Frank Miller style stuff. There's other elements I'm sure, but it never really went beyond this iirc.
It’s weird to me because there are serious noire manga about gangsters and school gangs that have the same realistic art style. Cromartie’s manga intentionally does it shitty for comedic effect.

Perez always reminded me of Bill Watterson doing his “Susie and Calvin playing pretend” it’s stiff and only lended itself to action when Watterson tried. Watterson seemed to be the only person in the West who realized comics being stupid was what made them great. You didn’t have to abide by rules if it suited what you wanted to tell.
 
It’s weird to me because there are serious noire manga about gangsters and school gangs that have the same realistic art style. Cromartie’s manga intentionally does it shitty for comedic effect.

Perez always reminded me of Bill Watterson doing his “Susie and Calvin playing pretend” it’s stiff and only lended itself to action when Watterson tried. Watterson seemed to be the only person in the West who realized comics being stupid was what made them great. You didn’t have to abide by rules if it suited what you wanted to tell.
i feel like a lot of it may have been because the more artistically experimental stuff got hammered/restricted by DC/Marvel being more about being products to consume for kids instead of being artsy, until sometime in the '80s when comics started being taken seriously as an art/literature medium.
 
i feel like a lot of it may have been because the more artistically experimental stuff got hammered/restricted by DC/Marvel being more about being products to consume for kids instead of being artsy, until sometime in the '80s when comics started being taken seriously as an art/literature medium.
I’d say the 80’s was just the speculator market and basically different was good. The experimental comics scene in America during the 50-70’s was bigger fish bitching about not getting a bigger cut (I don’t believe the creators rights bullshit, it was Kirby bitching about getting his ego stroked).

It also really small. You basically got sexual degenerates and Jews kvetching. The longest running indie comic is a mediocre yurifag comic.
 
I’d say the 80’s was just the speculator market and basically different was good. The experimental comics scene in America during the 50-70’s was bigger fish bitching about not getting a bigger cut (I don’t believe the creators rights bullshit, it was Kirby bitching about getting his ego stroked).

It also really small. You basically got sexual degenerates and Jews kvetching. The longest running indie comic is a mediocre yurifag comic.
I think plenty of western comics artists have been positively recieved, but a lot of it really shows how quite a lot of the sensibilities have remained with the "classic" styles from the silver-bronze age.

Manga's got more visual variety, but there's plenty of shitty manga too. I'd say the '80s-'90s was probably the turning point for a lot of well-known manga to really blossom, visually. American Comics seems like they slowly trudged along until the '80s, then they all started taking lessons from the works that got very well received. (Yeah, we can point to Watchmen and DKR, but I'd also say that American Flagg was also a pretty influential work on the industry as well.)

Anyways, is it just me or does american comics seem to have the issue with the fucking dialogue being too heavy or awkward more often than the european/japanese comics? I remember lengthy expositions being a thing throughout the ages, but this bullshit seems to have been popularized with Claremont's soap opera X-Men and then ramped up into goyslop with Bendis and Whedon.
 
>Niggas saying a static knife fight that’s shittier than Prince Valiant is the peak and manga can’t compare

I’m pretty sure Japanese did similar static shit for history books and as Technical artists. One of my libraries as a kid, I loved reading it. The problem is that American artists never improved, they regressed as time went on.

Iirc Japan had a Civil War with more realistic artist vs cartoonists for how they wanted to present themselves. It lead to people compromises.
Wrong, both Tezuka and Ishinomori had works with realistic style and even authors from the 50's already had the motion in view.

And for comic books, they have a culture to adapt their own stories into comics and of other people too. What is the best way to use history characters by using then and making them looks cool.

Some random pages here:

Siege battle of French versus England in Mercenary Pierre

1712531577703.png

Battle of independence of Austria in Wolfsmund
1712531651749.png

Battle of Cannae in Scipio to Hannibal

1712531799920.png

Cowboy versus Indians in RED
1712531949006.png

And we have two gigantic examples in that adapts the chinese stories in two different works: the modern Kingdom from 2006.

1712532118284.png

And Sangokushi from 1971

1712532388449.png


And these are just the historical manga, not fantasy and so on, but since we are talking about action, lets forget even combat, lets talk sports. Americans have their own sports and no significant comic sport about it, england had their long running football comic, france had their comics about cycling and car racing, but americans got nothing. The most famous comic sports based on north american sports are japanese in their origin too. Even the ones I don't like (racing in Initial D).

Historical combat, fantasy combat, martial combat and even sports, US comics are lagging behind in all these, and by DECADES. Baseball (which I don't even care) had famous manga back in the 60's. Boxing there is Ashita no Joe, that came out in 1968 and it will be published in english in 2024.

And this isn't even a case where you had comics like that then capeshit destroyed the market like the romance/comedy comics from back then.

Your own culture gets adapted better by foreign people than yourselves, european got hold of the cowboy genre like a horse with the italian Tex Willer and the french with Blueberry. My favorite western comic was made by french people, while you had cowboy comics in the past and nowadays all you have is to insert Jonah Hex in capeshit comics to make a genre as vast as western to disapear.

It is incredible how the japanese can see different cultures and try to adapt it into cool stuff, and the american chooses a single genre and live by it until it drains the reader soul with shit. I know because I was one of those poor people who would read all the new comics out in the wednesday.

Napoleon manga (also go read the french comics The Battle and Berezina, fucking awesome comics about the fall of Napoleon)
1712533287384.png
 
It is incredible how the japanese can see different cultures and try to adapt it into cool stuff, and the american chooses a single genre and live by it until it drains the reader soul with shit. I know because I was one of those poor people who would read all the new comics out in the wednesday.
to be fair, japanese mangas aren't overcentralized into two-four publishers that run every mainstream thing like america has.

i'd say that american comics has the issue of being so increasingly focused as a commercial product over the decades that it didn't have a choice until it was almost too late.

most american comics that sell these days are dependent on a "brand" of some kinda, whether it be an IP or a recognizable creator. you'll occassionally get some interesting stuff that's got a historical spin to it, but a lot of historical genre fiction/nonfiction comics from the west is gonna come from europe. unless you want to read about race/lgbt stuff. I think the last "historical" genre piece made by an american that went big was Frank Miller's 300.

You'll have stuff that isn't reliant on a brand that pops up from time to time, but you have to sift through all the bullshit in the american market to find it. Like, I found an indie title called "That Texan Blood" which seems to be enjoyable. I also recall the relaunched Valiant imprint has a title called "Brittania", wonder if that's worthwhile.


this looks amusing. might give it a shot.

also on the topic of historical fiction in american comics:

we did focus a ton on westerns and war stories in particular. i'd suggest looking it up in particular. we also had some focus on medieval knights to an extent as well as other areas of american history and victorian england, but Westerns and War (World War 2 in particular) were pretty major genres from the '40s through to the early '80s.

Did we have other stuff? Probably, but remember, america wasn't all capeshit and funny animals.
 
Last edited:
Anyways, is it just me or does american comics seem to have the issue with the fucking dialogue being too heavy or awkward more often than the european/japanese comics? I remember lengthy expositions being a thing throughout the ages, but this bullshit seems to have been popularized with Claremont's soap opera X-Men and then ramped up into goyslop with Bendis and Whedon.

Not even the content of dialogue, but how to present it, american comics (and somewhat european comics too) are fucking archaic. you know the speech bubble? They use the tail so much and they stretch it so much, showcasing they dont trust the reader to read it correctly

Lets use the neal adams comic again, see the first bubble, you have it in front of the character and also using a long tail to connect (AND THIS IS THE SAME WRITER AND ARTIST, SO COMPOSE THE PAGE BETTER)
1712533956186.png

Sew how tiny the tail is on manga, they function as a point to point the origin of the speech, in the fourth panel, there is no confusion to who is saying what, and it is a tiny panel in a bigger page.
1712534138361.png

A tiny tail works as much of you compose the page better, but since comics in US are made by almost a committee, you have guys with no experience in composing pages since the lettering is done by other guy.
1712534328829.png


And sometimes the indication of the tail is done inside the balloon, pointing to the speaker. Couldn't find the images to illustrate.

The inexistence of auxiliary dialogue like in this fourth panel where the text can be different from the one inside the bubble and have no connection with the one inside

1712535053805.png

And how basically All text which aren't onomatopoeias must be inside a thought, dialogue or other type of box, not having any other type to see the information.
1712535190860.png

It is basically the same formula, so you don't experiment like using mini faces inside the dialogue like this page

1712535491223.png
Or this:
1712535676705.png

@Alexander Thaut

Finished reading the Cimarronin mini and the sequel. Bad comic, it tries to do so much and is not focused at all, they change the artist in the sequel and the art is terrible and the action sucks fucking dick hard. You get a nice idea of a fish out of the water like putting a ronin in new spain but then you have the revenge story of slave negros in americas, a Chinese princess, the jesuit and the ronin, all of them have backstories and the Chinese princess is one of the mary sue types who wins everything and need no help. It was an unfocused mess that after the first mini ends, get even mote characters and their backstory and the main plot gets resolved in a shitty way.

To not even say about the lack of historical research of using the wrong Portugal flag and how they cant decide on how to make characters communicate since it is people from different parts of the world with different languages, sometimes you get Chinese text, Japanese kana but all characters can communicate easily by using Spanish (even when Spanish wasn't used to commerce, they would leave people there to learn their language and mediate the trade.

In the end it was a boring story of a colonized people uprising against the Spanish in Mexico that tries to do much without knowing the limitations of itself. For a similar idea that isn't executed like shit, read Chinaman
1712539983518.png

Edit: The best part was the first chapter where the ronin investigate a crime scene by looking at the dead people and the tools used so he deduced it was the Chinese who killed those people. But then everything gets worse and worse.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
@Alexander Thaut

Finished reading the Cimarronin mini and the sequel. Bad comic, it tries to do so much and is not focused at all, they change the artist in the sequel and the art is terrible and the action sucks fucking dick hard. You get a nice idea of a fish out of the water like putting a ronin in new spain but then you have the revenge story of slave negros in americas, a chinese princess, the jesuit and the ronin, all of them have backstories and the chinese princess is one of the mary sue types who wins everything and need no help. It was an unfocused mess that after the first mini ends, get even mote characters and their backstory and the main plot gets resolved in a shitty way.

To not even say about the lack of historical research of using the wrong portugal flag and how they cant decide on how to make characters communicate since it is peopoe from different parts of the world with different languages, sometimes you get chinese text, japanese kana but all characters can communicate easily by using spanish (even when spanish wasn't used to commerce, they would leave people there to learn their language and mediate the trade.

In the end it was a boring story of a colonized people uprising against the spanish in Mexico that tries to do much without knowing the limitations of itself. For a similar idea that isn't executed like shit, read Chinaman
View attachment 5886937


Edit: The best part was the first chapter where the ronin investigate a crime scene by looking at the dead people and the tools used so he deduced it was the chinese who killed those people. But then everything gets worse and worse.
historical accuracy can be overlooked if the content is good, or at least entertaining.

I'm guessing Cimarronin wasn't even amusing.
 
I reread the storyline No Mans Land about the gotham earthquake. Shit was crazy. Gordon's wife laying dead in pool of blood with babies crying nearby still fucking haunts me. Ivy going mama bear by using Clayface as fertilizer, Killer Crocs inconsistent characterization, Huntress surviving the Joker, the intros of both Harley Quinn and Mercy Graves, etc.
Then Leslie Tompkins.....who massively fucked up. She lets Zazaz live. Yet several years later lets a girl die to taunt Bruce......uhhhhhh ........
I forget what Selina was up to
 
I reread the storyline No Mans Land about the gotham earthquake. Shit was crazy. Gordon's wife laying dead in pool of blood with babies crying nearby still fucking haunts me. Ivy going mama bear by using Clayface as fertilizer, Killer Crocs inconsistent characterization, Huntress surviving the Joker, the intros of both Harley Quinn and Mercy Graves, etc.
Then Leslie Tompkins.....who massively fucked up. She lets Zazaz live. Yet several years later lets a girl die to taunt Bruce......uhhhhhh ........
I forget what Selina was up to
went too long, didn't get executed that well, but the idea was fun.
 
I heard that Jason Aaron 2022 punisher run is the worst run in Punisher history as he and Marvel butchered Frank Castle and tell the readers that he sucks.
Is that true? Because it is a shame, as Aaron wrote some good punisher stories in the past (his MAX series with Steve Dillon have some hiccups, but had good moments)
 
I reread the storyline No Mans Land about the gotham earthquake. Shit was crazy. Gordon's wife laying dead in pool of blood with babies crying nearby still fucking haunts me. Ivy going mama bear by using Clayface as fertilizer, Killer Crocs inconsistent characterization, Huntress surviving the Joker, the intros of both Harley Quinn and Mercy Graves, etc.
Then Leslie Tompkins.....who massively fucked up. She lets Zazaz live. Yet several years later lets a girl die to taunt Bruce......uhhhhhh ........
I forget what Selina was up to
No Man's Land is how I got into comics. It was interesting to me, Batman needing to rely on dwindling resources instead of his usual gadgets and wealth, the city being practically lawless except for certain areas. Tim breaking in so he could help out was what made me check out his solo series and made him my Robin.

Having said that, I fucking hate that Damian Scott was the artist for that final issue when Sarah died. I just cannot take his art seriously. It's too cartoony, and not in a well done way. Everything about that scene just looks ridiculous to me. But that could just be me.
I heard that Jason Aaron 2022 punisher run is the worst run in Punisher history as he and Marvel butchered Frank Castle and tell the readers that he sucks.
Is that true? Because it is a shame, as Aaron wrote some good punisher stories in the past (his MAX series with Steve Dillon have some hiccups, but had good moments)
A problem with Aaron that I've always had is while I like his R rated stuff (Scalped, Punisher MAX) anything he did for mainline Marvel has just been shit to me. It's like if he can't say fuck or have a pair of tits, any writing ability he has goes out the window. So it wouldn't surprise me if his follow up where he can't push the envelope as much falls flat.
 
A problem with Aaron that I've always had is while I like his R rated stuff (Scalped, Punisher MAX) anything he did for mainline Marvel has just been shit to me. It's like if he can't say fuck or have a pair of tits, any writing ability he has goes out the window. So it wouldn't surprise me if his follow up where he can't push the envelope as much falls flat.
Weird thing is Aaron's Batman: Offworld is pretty good so far
 
Back
Top Bottom