@Registration replies fucking busted. Whatever.
No, George Perez is dynamic he's done great paneling from Titans to Superman to Avengers and more. There are literally thousands of comics I can point to. But...the idea that big splash pages full of material is bad is something else.
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I mean, I could saturate great fight scenes, but your cited example....I mean, look. Using the word 'capeshit' over and over is cringe. Do you mean superman? Do capes, trigger you or something? Cause if it's ultra realism a bunny girl fighting a 15 year old girl, somehow lifting a big sword isn't realism.
As far as Manga, there are some great bangers....but no. You failed to make your case just saying mass fights are all bad doesn't make it true.
As far as your rant about Neal Adams, It's telling you took a MODERN comic of his. One without showing his actual fucking work.
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So no, you're wrong again. This is from the fucking 60's 70s.
So no, I'm sorry that America until maybe a decade or two ago was so stuffed with entertainment that Americans didn't need to really look elsewhere.
Capeshit is super hero comics, mainly american ones, the usual Marvel/DC shit that has been discussed here for years. The item cape is meaningless in this discussion, and that page is from a fantasy comic, the point isn't realism but how to depict action scenes on the paper rather than whom is being depicted.
Mass fights are bad because it just doesn't work on comic pages, you don't see the action part of the comic. Lets use dragon ball for example, did you ever noticed how it is mostly one-on-one fights? The other characters react to them but they don't fight, even in scenes like they mass fights (cell junior versus everyone), Toriyama never used a big splash page and focused on action all the time: lets see, look at how Kuririn is shown being beaten up in multiple panels:
This is from the chapter 407, there are 76 different panels in this chapter, it is mostly talking and Mr. Satan talking with the reporters and Android 16, all to build up the next chapter, when Gohan turns Super Saiyajin, where we get a SINGLE SPLASH PAGE with only Gohan transformed in it. It is all about the flow of the images, where you build it up and we see the difference in storytelling. This chapter came out on January 26, 1993. So without even considering the content of the story, the storytelling is so much more advanced in how to depict action. And this isn't even a matter of pages being limited, since nowadays an arc would be 5-6 issues long and you have space to do it good (read the Deadpool vs Punisher comic that I said, where action is excelent).
"could saturate great fight scenes"
Do you know what is a good action scene in comics? Its not about who is fighting who, it is all about how the artist draws it. Seeing 10 capeshit heroes punching and using laser powers on a double splash page doesn't mean shit if how it is illustrated doesn't make it shine, Dragon Ball is so amazing that you can have the Dragon Ball Heroes manga where you put all the fan favorites characters and the page layout and action fucking sucks compared to Toriyama because the action scenes are made to be functional and not Toriyama-like, focusing on the action.
"It's telling you took a MODERN comic of his. One without showing his actual fucking work."
Yeah, fuck off.
Talent to illustration isn't something that you lose unless it is a physical disability or shaking hands, as an artist you will always be better in later years because you practiced way more because you did more. Do you want to tell me that Neal Adams art got worse in 40 years, sure, but dont use the Modern/actual work bullshit.
Let me illustrate this with Devilman from 1972, the original art and a manga telling how the author did the 1972 manga but from 2010 with his current art style, in this manga he recreates some drawings and it is fun to compare how he got better and used better angles to show it.
Drawing isn't like music, the artist personal styles can change as they grow older and more experienced, but it rarely gets bad, to think otherwise is insane, a later artist career is the addition of all techniques he used before. You can see it clearly in the most important aspect of comic art: paneling, experienced artists versus their own selves in their early career. There was a Manben episode, where an artist would always mirror their illustration because they couldn't draw the left side, so they would draw the right side, mirror it and later add whatever it was on their hand on photoshop. This is something he came up on his own, Junji Ito for example made his own pens and had to create new digital brushes when he switched to digital. No illustrator gets worse, they are either cutting corners or just changed their styles.
This is this Neal Adams (this book is so shit that even coloring is shit, look how they flipflop on the neck/collar coloring. This is the third page of issue 3... It already had problems in the first page and they keep doing in the same fucking page.
This page is fucking insane, this whole story is insane.
"I'm sorry that America until maybe a decade or two ago was so stuffed with entertainment that Americans didn't need to really look elsewhere."
Nigga, Disney build his empire of european stories, and that is just one of your biggest main creators, and they still do the same shit 100 years later with other cultures.
To believe otherwise is to ignore reality. We could throw so many examples that your sentence would make more sense in a fictionalized idea of a country from a civil war LARPER than reality.
@Alexander Thaut
Tezuka and Ishinomori were geniuses, the output that they did far outshines any western comic writer in the world. TEZUKA wrote and illustrated almost all types of stories that you can imagine, in western countries he is more remembered with Atom and Adolf (which is very lame), my favorite of the ones that I've read is about a super villain that has american race relationships that turns his skin inivisible and is fucking crazy story about a bad guy. It is called Alabaster and it is from the gekiga phase and Tezuka fucking hated it but I love it. This is from the 70's, before people would try to capitalize on villains (lets not count Arsene Lupin and Fantômas).
I own the Tezuka's version of Pinocchio and it is closer to the original book than the disney film, even when the character designs are similar to it (it has the hanged Pinocchio just like the book).
And Tezuka's did so much that almost everything that is done today, he already did ot in the past (true crime, sci-fi, fantasy, space western and so on)
@Georgio Cocklord
I would name one of the few capeshit that I love it, the Spider-man manga from the 70's.
The first arcs are adaptations of western comics, but then a new writer come in and adapts his own work into Spider-man and we get the most suffering a superhero can get, we get mind tigers, rape, sexual fantasies, criminals with guns and love for velocity, all in a spider-man comic that oozes that 70's psychosexual desire to autodestruction that no american writer could even attempt to write.
It has even a proto clone arc story.
Spider-man manga from the 70's is something that I am sure it will never be reprinted, american readers wouldn't be able to cope with how the story goes hard in the direction that the Spider-man powers are a curse to the user. To not say all about the rape, incest, murder, violence and so on.
