Sony hate thread

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All my exposure to streaming games (outside LAN remote play) has been so shitty that I do not grasp people entertaining streaming services as a viable way to play games. I understand some people have very low standards, but surely for the overwhelming majority of people who like video games, playing them with heaps of input lag and shite bitrate streaming video is worse than not playing them at all, right?

Even with the lowest latency possible and reasonable bandwidth, game streaming over the internet at acceptable quality is not there yet with current technology, as far as I have witnessed and as far as I have heard from anyone else.
Definitely agree. I tried to stream my computer running The Sims 2 to my iPad once so I could play it while being comfy in bed instead of sat at my desk and it was laggy as fuck even 3 feet away from the PC (which is literally right next to my bed). I can only imagine how bad trying to stream a game to your console from a completely different location would be (quite literally since I don't own any modern consoles that are capable of game streaming lmao).
 
The only way I'm paying for this shit is if they somehow pull off a literal miracle and resurrect SOCOM II with full online play.

Otherwise, as I said in the Xbox thread, any attempt at trying to kill off physical media and create a "Netflix of games" can suck my jaded 34 year old boomer cock.
None of these services are really intended to kill physical media. Both companies also want people to purchase new software and microtransactions routinely.

Microsoft treats Xbox as a Loss leader while the Playstation is Sony's cash cow. Both services reflect those positions. Gamepass won't remain at that price for long term, it's to get people to buy into the Microsoft ecosystem because they also have a commanding presence on PC and people will need to purchase windows and other microsoft related products and services. Microsoft does not have a stable of strong first party game development output, they have stuff and IPs they've bought but they don't put a lot of software out, especially compared to their business division output.

Playstation on the other hand has it's exclusives which move hardware and it's become a core element of Sony itself which was why Sony Group made it pretty much the center of their One Sony Policy. Having playstation be a loss leader for Sony does not make sense for their situation, because they have no problem getting people to buy games and PSN itself already makes billions in revenue. So say with the new pricing system that their subscriber numbers stay the same and only around 15%-25% decide to upgrades, that's a large increase in profit from the same pool.

The services are launching in asia first because most of the growing markets are located there, India and China are two big ones.

I don't like his recent content but Yahtzee recently aired similar feelings that I've had for a while:

Bad games are better than mediocre ones.

Bad games are normally the product of misplaced passion and effort combined with financial backing from retards that don't know jackshit about videogames or a specific genre and that result in absolutely broken trainwrecks that are just hillarious to point and laugh at.

Meanwhile mediocre games are the result of corporate greed taken to its' logical conclussion by running a risk assesment on big projects and surgically sanitizing everything while trying to maximize profits.
That coming from Yahtzee makes it sound like he's doesn't know what to play or has become enslaved to the youtube algorithm. Bad games can certainly be way worse than mediocre ones. If you're listing Hunt Down The Freeman then you have not been keeping up with recent releases, because there have been way worse shit released within the past year than that. Hunt Down The Freeman only became popular due to memes, but there have been generally bad games put out but it's just nobody really talks about them because they have no redeeming qualities.

What people are wanting is for the media to tell them what to play like they did in the old days when magazines were a thing. You'd get a gaming magazine and it would have a select number of titles shown and they would make a fuss over each one. But now you're spoiled for choice for anything, you just have to spend time hunting down what you want where as generations before you really did not need to do that. It can be overwhelming at first and also people may not want to be adventurous and spend money on an unproven title

Bitching about refined formulas and stuff figuring out a way to make a stable game is nonsense though. Games are programs and have a large engineering aspect to them. If one game figures out a solution for something, other games tend to repeat it or copy it because it's a problem often related to mechanics. Takes for example side quests, RPGs at first did not have them and expected you to grind out the needed experience. But once titles like Dragon Quest figured out that side quests made leveling a better experience, games started to implement them.
 
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Maybe back in the PS1 and PS2 era when everyone was gushing for shit like Lara Croft, Crash, Spyro, Tekken, and Sly Cooper, but I don't remember anyone wetting their panties over fucking Knack
Yes that's true, but most of those were not developed by Sony themselves. Both Knacks did indeed suck and their attempts with Gravity Rush did not gain an audience either. Stuff like GOW 2018 outdid all previous sales of the series combined that were released on PS2, PS3, and PSP. So that was quite a big uptick, especially since both Horizon and GOW came 4-5 years into the PS4's life.

God of War 2018 turned out to be a very well done take on Zelda style games. You could compare it to stuff like Skyward Sword or Twilight Princess and how it corrected many of the mistakes those installments made.
 
Spyro wasn't Sony's own developed title and neither was Crash, both IPs were owned by other entities

Jak and Daxter only did around 12 million for the whole series. Uncharted by comparison did over 40 million. But now you had the PS4 titles reach 20 million with a single installment for their newer series. It's quite a leap.
WE'VE BEEN THROUGH THIS! You also need to take into account how monolithic franchises have become. So let me ask you this, what was the best selling PSX game in 1998 and how much did it sell that year? Was it 40 million? Ten million?
 
WE'VE BEEN THROUGH THIS! You also need to take into account how monolithic franchises have become. So let me ask you this, what was the best selling PSX game in 1998 and how much did it sell that year? Was it 40 million? Ten million?
Even if that was being adjusted for, Nintendo's own first party titles were still selling higher way more constantly around the same time period.

Gran Turismo was one that always consistently ranked high in sales and that was developed by Sony itself. And while that started back on the PS1 the later ones like Jak and Uncharted only had a few years of separation between the PS2 and PS3. The Last Jak game and the first uncharted game was only a difference of 3 years.

I'm talking about specifically Sony's own first party output for their own games. Like everything they put out for the PS1, their third party games were the ones that were breaking sales records for the overwhelming majority. Their first party games were not usually as much as main draw as they are now. Stuff like Legend of Dragoon I think did only a million or so and while it did get drowned on release by Pokemon in japan, the western sales did wind up saving the game, but it didn't even come close to any of the Final Fantasies on PS1 whcih were in the double digit millions for 7 and 8 got fairly close to that.

Now compared to the modern games they're hitting sales numbers far more consistently that their large 3rd party contemporaries are also hitting or are exceeding them.
 
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On the other hand take Battlefield V, Far Cry 6 or Agents of Mayhem. They look pretty, have a lot of budget and talent poured into them but ultimately they're forgettable and easily replaceable with anything else on the market because they're the end result of corporate calling all the shots rather than idiots, which makes for a very bland and streamlined experience.
That's how I feel about CoD: Vanguard. It's functionally a Modern Warfare 2019 reskin. But, somehow it's WORSE because of its political, botched writing, prioritization for monetization, little innovation and lack of character.

I'd say they're bad in their own right mainly because of their execution and potential.
 
Ghostwire isn't exclusive PC has it also.

This is increasingly going to become the Sony shill's conundrum. For the longest time they've said that Xbox has no exclusives because you can get them all on PC. Now that Sony are dipping their toes into the PC space, they're gradually going to have to accept the same fate. It's almost poetic justice really.
 
Even if that was being adjusted for, Nintendo's own first party titles were still selling higher way more constantly around the same time period.

Gran Turismo was one that always consistently ranked high in sales and that was developed by Sony itself.

I'm talking about specifically Sony's own first party output for their own games.
Why would it be adjusted and how? It wasn't like the PSX was a rinky dink console that sold less than the dreamcast. And I don't give a shit about the N64.

To reiterate, these are the questions you should answer.
1. If Sony first party games were big sellers and could top annual sales charts for the system late in its life, then that proves that people were buying first party games and that they were popular, right?
2. Why would you need to adjust sales for a system that sold 100m consoles?

Do 1 first, then 2.
 
Why would it be adjusted and how? It wasn't like the PSX was a rinky dink console that sold less than the dreamcast. And I don't give a shit about the N64.

To reiterate, these are the questions you should answer.
1. If Sony first party games were big sellers and could top annual sales charts for the system late in its life, then that proves that people were buying first party games and that they were popular, right?
2. Why would you need to adjust sales for a system that sold 100m consoles?

Do 1 first, then 2.
Well for the first point, their first party stuff has been more consistent with being system sellers than previous generations. They've gotten up there, you could compare even early on in the PS4's lifecycle with stuff like Killzone Shadowfall and it didn't really hit the mark as compared to the same developer's efforts with Horizon. Horizon sold around 10 million in the same timeframe it took a killzone game to reach a little over 2 million copies.

For the second one, I thought you want the sales adjusted because no game sold the likes of 30 million back when those systems were current. Mario 64 sold around 11 million copies and Mario Kart 64 was close to 10 million, the only first party Sony games that got close to those numbers were both PS1 GT games. If you even go down the following 10 or 20 games, they're all third party ones and not first party games made by Sony's own studios. You can look at the top 10 of the n64 and it's all Nintendo games or their developers at the time who are in the top 10 games. PS2 is a similar deal, the GT games are on top but you have to go way down to see the likes of God of War and their other first party IPs pop up.

For the PS4 you have the most first party games in the top ten sellers than previous generations. Including new IPs like Ghosts and Horizon. I'm saying people are not buying playstations for third party games like they used to and are now favoring more of their first party efforts now just like how Nintendo systems operate where people buy them primarily for first party options.
 
All my exposure to streaming games (outside LAN remote play) has been so shitty that I do not grasp people entertaining streaming services as a viable way to play games. I understand some people have very low standards, but surely for the overwhelming majority of people who like video games, playing them with heaps of input lag and shite bitrate streaming video is worse than not playing them at all, right?

Even with the lowest latency possible and reasonable bandwidth, game streaming over the internet at acceptable quality is not there yet with current technology, as far as I have witnessed and as far as I have heard from anyone else.
I have yet to hear anyone with any kind of gaming chops say anything respectable about over-the-internet game streaming services. The people who push them the most seem to be the type who care less about the game they want to play and more about the platform itself. Like, if you want to find anyone mentioning they played a game on Stadia, you'd have to go to Reddit and look up r/Stadia.

Even in-home streaming is only worthwhile if your hardware is all new and high quality. This isn't most people at all, even including niggas like you and me, nerdy enough to post on the internet about such things, and people with computers that cost as much as an economy car. Or maybe you live somewhere where you're entirely reliant on wifi, and you can't just drill holes in your wall to run networking cable. There are a thousand ways in-home streaming can just not be viable, let alone streaming a game from some Sony server farm.

Tons of places still don't have gigabit ethernet. Even if you do, having tons of bandwidth doesn't mean shit if you just happen to live too far away from your ISP's headend or whatever, which would make your ping times ass. And if you're reliant on mobile data? You can completely forget it. If you have any data caps, you will burn through them faster than if you just did a lot of video streaming at the same resolution.

What I'm trying to say is, this shit is only even remotely viable if:
  • the thing you're playing on has a good network interface (most likely if it was built no earlier than 2019)
  • your router is high quality
  • your connection to your ISP is very low latency, so you live in a big city
And even at that, due to how all of this works, you will still have:
  • a bit of input lag that'll make everything feel a little uncomfortable
  • compression artifacts that make the image softer everywhere
  • tons of compression artifacts that make everything a giant mess if explosions happen
  • infetterence somewhere along the way
also, game streaming services advertise goofy shit like this as serious ways to play their games portably:
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instead of, you know, a little pocket-sized dedicated game machine, which just isn't a thing anymore here in Clown World.

Everything about game streaming is terrible, and not at all ready for the masses, let alone enthusiasts. The fact that Sony's locking PS1/2/P games behind one, rather than farting out some emulation solution for a console as powerful as PlayStation 5 makes me wonder what the fuck's going on. It's like you can just say to investors "game streaming", and they just start deluging you with money, because internet streaming is hot shit, and they don't understand that games aren't at all like movies and music on technical levels.

I've given game streaming a chance, too. I got a free copy of Doom 64 on Stadia. It is a bad experience. Hiccups happen more and more frequently the longer your session runs. Your session closes out and you lose your place if you pause and go away longer than a few minutes without saving. You wind up with a sense of imposing dread when you enter a room with a lot of enemies, because you know the video compression will shit out if too much happens on-screen at once, and a small network hiccup could lock you up and kill you by no fault of your own. There was one situation where I had a hiccup that lasted about 20 seconds, and it happened while I was firing, so it wasted a bunch of my ammo by holding down fire for like 20 seconds. That is not acceptable at all. 30 years ago, a shitty gaming setup would be if you were trying to play a game on a blurry CRT with a weak RF switch, and a junky Mad Catz controller. Even that still gave you a consistent picture without input lag. You just cannot have the risk of abrupt interruptions mid-game, where you can't even pause in time to wait out the problems. And that's something that simply cannot be fixed, because there will always be a problem somewhere along the line.

$120 a year to stream 25 year old games on your new powerful $600 console that's not even running them locally, even though it could trivially do so, just like the PlayStation from 16 years ago actually did. The PlayStation 5 and its services have been a disaster for video games.
 
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Well for the first point, their first party stuff has been more consistent with being system sellers than previous generations.
We're not talking about the absolute numbers of modern triple-A, we're talking about how first party games performed compared to other titles on the PSX. When games cost a fraction of what they do now to develop. How did first party Sony games perform in 1998? What would their ROI be? Wouldn't it be very relevant if Sony first party games at that time outsold other titles on that platform during that year even if it wasn't COD numbers, when weighted against your argument that they didn't? Wouldn't that suggest that people bought those titles, bought a system to play them on or preferred them? That's what I mean when I say you are focusing on monolithic franchises.
 
We're not talking about the absolute numbers of modern triple-A, we're talking about how first party games performed compared to other titles on the PSX. When games cost a fraction of what they do now to develop. How did first party Sony games perform in 1998? What would their ROI be? Wouldn't it be very relevant if Sony first party games at that time outsold other titles on that platform during that year even if it wasn't COD numbers, when weighted against your argument that they didn't? Wouldn't that suggest that people bought those titles, bought a system to play them on or preferred them? That's what I mean when I say you are focusing on monolithic franchises.
But I was intentionally focusing on the large franchises saying they've become way more of a draw to people, and they've begun to mirror the same draw that Nintendo's own first party exclusives do for their specific platform. Like Sony's plan is to have just as much of a large stable of well known IPs. That was not really the plan of previous systems to do something like that.

I wasn't really getting into rates of return and stuff like that. Because that's now going into the movie stuff and cross promotion media they're fixated on, that would need to be factored in.
 
But I was intentionally focusing on the large franchises saying they've become way more of a draw to people, and they've begun to mirror the same draw that Nintendo's own first party exclusives do for their specific platform.
You have to remember that the N64 had a much smaller install base and more or less only sold a handful of Nintendo games in addition to Quest 64. Tally up the sales of all the first party Sony games during that period and they will outperform Nintendo.
 
You have to remember that the N64 had a much smaller install base and more or less only sold a handful of Nintendo games in addition to Quest 64. Tally up the sales of all the first party Sony games during that period and they will outperform Nintendo.
OK I went down the list of a little over the top 100 selling games in total for the system

For sony I counted games they themselves developed and companies like Naughty Dog

For Nintendo I counted games they put out themselves and companies like Rare

Sony I scrolled down the whole list picking out first party games and got
48,129, 638

Nintendo I didn't even have to leave the top 10 and I got
53, 750, 000

Even if I were to throw in Spyro and Insomniac that wouldn't be enough. Starfox, Banjo Kazooie, and even Pokemon Snap still would trounce those easily.
 
OK I went down the list of a little over the top 100 selling games in total for the system

For sony I counted games they themselves developed and companies like Naughty Dog

For Nintendo I counted games they put out themselves and companies like Rare

Sony I scrolled down the whole list picking out first party games and got
48,129, 638

Nintendo I didn't even have to leave the top 10 and I got
53, 750, 000

Even if I were to throw in Spyro and Insomniac that wouldn't be enough. Starfox, Banjo Kazooie, and even Pokemon Snap still would trounce those easily.
Why are you just focusing on games made by just Sony and Nintendo though? You honestly saying Final Fantasy 7/8/9 didn't help with selling PSones back then? MGS or Tekken franchise? Back then was a different time and each console had more exclusives than they do today from all sorts of studios.
 
Why are you just focusing on games made by just Sony and Nintendo though? You honestly saying Final Fantasy 7/8/9 didn't help with selling PSones back then? MGS or Tekken franchise? Back then was a different time and each console had more exclusives than they do today from all sorts of studios.
The point I'm trying to make is that Sony's first party titles gained more popularity in recent years than they did in the past and this caused a shift to them being the main reason why more people purchased playstations just for the first party offerings, much like Nintendo's own first party exclusives. The first party exclusives were not that much of a factor in generations prior, people still cared more about the third party exclusives back then.
 
The point I'm trying to make is that Sony's first party titles gained more popularity in recent years than they did in the past and this caused a shift to them being the main reason why more people purchased playstations just for the first party offerings, much like Nintendo's own first party exclusives. The first party exclusives were not that much of a factor in generations prior, people still cared more about the third party exclusives back then.
You don't think it has to do with that fact that the only exclusives nowadays are only the first party titles for some of the companies?
 
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