Sonic The Hedgehog Games

[Overcast]

Has Sonic had a RPG before?

Yes. And it was terrible.

EDIT: Ninja'd

 

[Jonah Hill poster]

I just want to say that I wish I had Sonic Adventure 2 on the Dreamcast in physical form, instead of using an emulator.

Also, for me, Sonic Generations was great:

 

[Duncan Hills Coffee]

The tragic thing about Sonic Chronicles is that there's plenty of potential in a Sonic RPG. Sonic's cast could easily fit into a JRPG setting, with each having their own class and abilities. Have a nice little story a la Sonic Battle and you could easily make an enjoyable Sonic RPG. But that wasn't the case with Chronicles. It was tedious as hell and the music sucked. The story was alright, if nothing else BioWare can write good character dynamics, but thanks to Ken Penders a sequel is basically never going to happen.

Mario proved you could take a platformer and turn it into a good RPG, and I would like to see Sonic take another crack at it, but with the state of the series right now that's not very likely to happen anytime soon.

 

[Gravemind]

Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood on the DS is an RPG and it’s...not good. The most memorable part is the garbage MIDI soundtrack.

Yes. And it was terrible.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=6o47N-aYd08
EDIT: Ninja'd

Alright, I gotta ask everyone else this because this was the thing that suckered me into buying Sonic Chronicles in the first place:

Does anyone else remember gaming journalism at the time raving about how great Sonic Chronicles was, almost like everyone in the media was dickriding BioWare just because Mass Effect was successful? Because I swear there was scattered praise for the game in certain publications (that I can't really remember at this moment). Lo and behold, I couldn't stomach more than five minutes of playing it and it immediately went to the darkest corner of my DS library.

But is it just me that noticed all the praise for Sonic Chronicles at the time? Or am I having a false memory thing gong on?

 

[Friendly Primarina]

(It was never made quite clear why Gerald raised a hedgehog in the first place. Isn't Shadow an alien?)

My favorite fan theory about Shadow's creation: It's implied in SA2 and confirmed in Shadow the Hedgehog that Gerald visited Angel Island and was aware of the echidna tribes. That means he probably saw this mural:

Upon recognizing his own likeness, he may have modeled Shadow after the depiction of Super Sonic here. Not only does it explain why he went from a giant plesiosaur to a mutant hedgehog, it explains why Shadow's spines are always super-shaped. Also this quote from the FinalHazard (paraphrased):

(to Sonic) I see now...the ultimate lifeform... it's you!

Probably nonsense but I like it.

 

[Captain Syrup]

Mario proved you could take a platformer and turn it into a good RPG

This is exactly the type of thinking behind Iizuka's decisions. Keep applying pressure on Sega with my Donut Steal Hedgehogs; eventually I'll get my Sonic RPG made!

If he'd focused more on making quality mainline games, things would be much different.

Does anyone else remember gaming journalism at the time raving about how great Sonic Chronicles was

I wasn't aware of its existence at all. As for Mario RPG, we're talking about Squaresoft at the height of their powers.

Sega told Takahashi to take a hike. They don't see the value in RPGs, and I doubt Sonic Team are up to the task.

 

[Someone in a Tree]

Sonic Chronicles was also the impetus that drove Ken Penders to copyright all the characters and stories he made for the Archie comic, and file a lawsuit against Sega and EA for the game infringing too closely (in his eyes) to his work on the comic.

 

[Captain Syrup]

Sonic Chronicles was also the impetus that drove Ken Penders to copyright all the characters and stories he made for the Archie comic, and file a lawsuit against Sega and EA for the game infringing too closely (in his eyes) to his work on the comic.

Ken is high on his own supply. Have you actually sat down and read his Knuckles comics? Lara-Su? The Dark Legion?

 

[Someone in a Tree]

Ken is high on his own supply. Have you actually sat down and read his Knuckles comics? Lara-Su? The Dark Legion?

I stopped reading the Sonic comic around the time Sonic 3 came out, so well before Penders was the main writer for it. I was vaguely aware of some of the broad plot lines as the years went on. I do think what happened between him and Archie was a beautiful marriage of egotistical author and incompetent bosses. Jesus, not being able to prove a standard “for hire” arrangement.

 

[Captain Syrup]

I stopped reading the Sonic comic around the time Sonic 3 came out

I tapped out when SA was integrated into the canon.

Nothing against Archie, I guess. Certainly tried their best.

 

[Mr. 0]

From a story perspective, it was weird how they retconned Gerald and G.U.N. into good guys. I'm curious as to whether there was some disagreement at Sonic Team.

G.U.N. became good guys when the blacks aliens from outer space shot up the city and turned out to be even worse guys. Gerald was only a bad guy after everything went to shit and he went crazy because of it. His reason for research into regenerative biology was to cure Maria of neuroimmune disease.

My favorite fan theory about Shadow's creation: It's implied in SA2 and confirmed in Shadow the Hedgehog that Gerald visited Angel Island and was aware of the echidna tribes. That means he probably saw this mural:
View attachment 2213816
Upon recognizing his own likeness, he may have modeled Shadow after the depiction of Super Sonic here. Not only does it explain why he went from a giant plesiosaur to a mutant hedgehog, it explains why Shadow's spines are always super-shaped. Also this quote from the FinalHazard (paraphrased):


Probably nonsense but I like it.

There's an idea that Sonic is the true ultimate life form and Shadow was a copy made during Gerald's imprisonment based on the story and supplemental materials, neither of which flat out confirm/denied it. Then Heroes/Shadow sliced through that ambiguity with the REAL SUPER POWER OF TEAMWORK.

Sonic Adventure 2 - The Truth of 50 Years Ago... - Sonic Retro

info.sonicretro.org

During my latest undercover investigation, I have obtained highly classified data notes of the then federal government president through GUN's security hole that seem to be related to Project Shadow. It is a top secret research request addressed and sent to Gerald from the president of its time, 13 presidents ago. The content of the letter is concisely stated as follows:

"Begin research on immortality, humanity's ultimate, eternal dream."

Gerald seemed to have stubbornly rejected this request at first, for it exceeded man's limits. However, the one who gave him an excuse to realize this plan that was supposed to end as it was an influential person's nonsense, was (ironically) his beloved granddaughter Maria Robotnik. Maria had contracted a difficult-to-cure illness; "NIDS: Neuro Immunodeficiency Syndrome," and while treatment continued at the ARK's medical research facility, she was not expected to recover. The irritated Gerald seemed to think that he would overcome this incurable disease by studying immortal life. The research has been documented as being named "Project Shadow" from the irony of creating a shadow (which cannot exist in this world,) and was advancing internally at the ARK behind the scenes in absolute secrecy.

However, there was just one miscalculation in this operation. At the time action was taken, Prof. Gerald seemed to have already nearly completed the Ultimate Lifeform, Shadow, using a different model. When GUN special forces entered the laboratory, the fleeing Gerald entrusted Shadow to his granddaughter Maria, and made sure that one escape capsule was ejected towards the surface. (The whereabouts of said capsule remain unknown.)

In the end, Gerald was apparently captured by special forces afterwards and imprisoned at Prison Island. Now, without Shadow the Hedgehog, there is no longer a way to confirm anywhere if the Shadow that was sealed at Prison Island was a replica created by Gerald, or the original Shadow that was ejected towards the surface and recovered...

 

[Friendly Primarina]

G.U.N. became good guys when the blacks aliens from outer space shot up the city and turned out to be even worse guys. Gerald was only a bad guy after everything went to shit and he went crazy because of it. His reason for research into regenerative biology was to cure Maria of neuroimmune disease.


There's an idea that Sonic is the true ultimate life form and Shadow was a copy made during Gerald's imprisonment based on the story and supplemental materials, neither of which flat out confirm/denied it. Then Heroes/Shadow sliced through that ambiguity with the REAL SUPER POWER OF TEAMWORK.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=ggYE5V9Vum0:1369

Sonic Adventure 2 - The Truth of 50 Years Ago... - Sonic Retro

info.sonicretro.org

People laugh at this era of Sonic, but I would rather play/watch a dozen dark edgefests like this than one more MY FRIENDS GIVE ME STRENGTH story.

 

[Captain Syrup]

People laugh at this era of Sonic, but I would rather play/watch a dozen dark edgefests like this than one more MY FRIENDS GIVE ME STRENGTH story.

That's seemingly what the fans respond to, though. Or at least the vocal ones. Forces was pitched as being story-driven like SatAM. Obviously, there were flaws in the execution. But the feedback was overwhelmingly, "this story is too dark for the series."

Be more like Colors, in other words. Stand there and tell jokes.

 

[starborn427614]

That's seemingly what the fans respond to, though. Or at least the vocal ones. Forces was pitched as being story-driven like SatAM. Obviously, there were flaws in the execution. But the feedback was overwhelmingly, "this story is too dark for the series."

Be more like Colors, in other words. Stand there and tell jokes.

I don't recall people saying Forces was too dark, more that its story is so milquetoast you wonder why they bothered to go with a war-themed narrative at all.

 

[Jeffrey Epstein]

i literally can go back in time in sonic cd to a period when i was still a retard.

 

[starborn427614]

This is potentially nothing, but it's interesting all the same. Last year, Marza (the animation studio who works on Sonic content) put up a piece of what I assume is commissioned fan-art of Sonic hanging out with the girl ghost from Night of the Werehog. It means nothing on its own, but considering that the leaks mentioned an open world and a ghost girl this may just be a spoiler hiding in plain sight.

https://twitter.com/marza_staff/status/1223043481054019585

Edit:
On closer inspection, they post fan art of Night of the Werehog content all the time. Not surprised since they worked on it, but still. Oh well. Enjoy the nice art.

 

[Book Thief]

Alright, I gotta ask everyone else this because this was the thing that suckered me into buying Sonic Chronicles in the first place:

Does anyone else remember gaming journalism at the time raving about how great Sonic Chronicles was, almost like everyone in the media was dickriding BioWare just because Mass Effect was successful? Because I swear there was scattered praise for the game in certain publications (that I can't really remember at this moment). Lo and behold, I couldn't stomach more than five minutes of playing it and it immediately went to the darkest corner of my DS library.

But is it just me that noticed all the praise for Sonic Chronicles at the time? Or am I having a false memory thing gong on?

I remember some of the hype surrounding the game, more specifically how they were to going to bring back remixes of classic themes.

Then the game came out and I bought it:

How on Earth a console from 1989 can have better music than one from 2004 will always be inexcusable to me.

 

[Someone in a Tree]

I remember some of the hype surrounding the game, more specifically how they were to going to bring back remixes of classic themes.

Then the game came out and I bought it:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZSVcJVm79rchttps://youtube.com/watch?v=6o47N-aYd08
How on Earth a console from 1989 can have better music than one from 2004 will always be inexcusable to me.

I bought it because I loved Super Mario RPG when it came out, and, like a lot of kids back in the day, assumed that it was only a matter of time before Sonic had a stab at the genre. Obviously I didn’t expect it would take a dozen years for it to happen (and be on a Nintendo console of all things), but I figured that it was being developed by a studio behind some acclaimed titles and that the touch screen interface could provide some novel approaches to combat. I loved Elite Beat Agents, so applying that type of gameplay to an RPG might offer a welcome surprise. Boy, was I too optimistic. Easily one of my biggest video game purchasing regrets.

 

[Book Thief]

I bought it because I loved Super Mario RPG when it came out, and, like a lot of kids back in the day, assumed that it was only a matter of time before Sonic had a stab at the genre. Obviously I didn’t expect it would take a dozen years for it to happen (and be on a Nintendo console of all things), but I figured that it was being developed by a studio behind some acclaimed titles and that the touch screen interface could provide some novel approaches to combat. I loved Elite Beat Agents, so applying that type of gameplay to an RPG might offer a welcome surprise. Boy, was I too optimistic. Easily one of my biggest video game purchasing regrets.

I initially hated the game. I didn't understand how the POW moves were supposed to work, as I assumed I was supposed to press them as soon as they appeared, which confused the hell out of me for a long time. The butchered songs were a huge bugbear of mine through-out, as the poor audio quality. I managed to get all the way up to the final area of the game, and because I was an idiot, I ended up running out of resources and ended up stuck.

However, I revisited it fairly recently, and knowing what I know now, I think it's better than I originally gave it credit for. The gameplay's pretty easy once you know how to exploit it, The writing is solid and fairly well-researched, sans a few errors in character bios, which is more than can be said about the writing in more modern Sonic titles. Of course, that none of this excuses how blatantly unfinished the game is. The 2D art has these white pixels around the borders, as if the transparent anti-aliasing was converted incorrectly. The frame-rate also chugs once you get more party member's onscreen, which can add some input delay on your POW moves. And the audio is, as always, a massive shit-show, with constant unfitting stock sound effects, down-sampled sounds from the Genesis titles, and MIDI songs that are horribly butchered mixes of the classics that I'll never forget how much the press lied to me regarding the music.

Sins such as ruining my favorite Final Boss theme:

And taking music from a game that I consider to be one of the greatest game OSTs of all time and turning it into a god-damned mess:

And of course, that horrible remix of Diamond Dust that I posted earlier. I wish they'd just delayed the release of it to iron out the game's obvious flaws, since it's apparent to anyone from outset that the game's unfinished. There's just no excuse for the state the game was released in.

 

[Captain Syrup]

There's just no excuse for the state the game was released in.

Eh, they took a good concept and threw it in the garbage. And said, "how do we shit this out onto a handheld and still make lotsa money."

This is a tangent, but if Sonic turned into a human he would probably resemble this guy: