Something Awful and Friends - The roller-coaster train-wreck embarrassing downfall of a Web 1.0 giant and its tick offspring like from Cloverfield

[Holocaust Mansplainer]

I love threads where it's two groups of autists calling each other autists over and over.

 

[jace821]

Wait we mattered on the internet?

The popular opinion a while back seemed to be that I was ruining the forums with my style of moderation, so I completely stepped back and removed myself from it to see if that was in fact the issue.

I've been on the SA forums since 2001 and can't recall there being much of an outcry against your moderating. I just remember you handing the keys over to Ozma and her gradually running the place in the ground.

Also would you please change factsareuseless' name to useless?

 

[repentance]

I've been on the SA forums since 2001 and can't recall there being much of an outcry against your moderating. I just remember you handing the keys over to Ozma and her gradually running the place in the ground.

I'm not sure why Lowtax is deadset on blaming the decline of GBS on Halloween Rules. Zack didn't operate in a vacuum. Lowtax - or even Ozma - could have reversed that if it was having a negative impact. The membership itself only expected it to last a few days to a week.

 

[Doctor Jizzmopper]

I'm not sure why Lowtax is deadset on blaming the decline of GBS on Halloween Rules. Zack didn't operate in a vacuum. Lowtax - or even Ozma - could have reversed that if it was having a negative impact. The membership itself only expected it to last a few days to a week.

There is no way in hell it caused an 80% dump like he claims it did. If anything, things like Something Awful Beer had more effect on the forums.

 

[Dog-O-Tron 5000v5.0]

I cannot, and should not, listen to and do what every single customer suggests. Up until about a decade ago, I simply did what I thought was best for the forums. That was back in the horrible, dark ages of SJWs and catladies and whatnot. But after time, I realized that no matter what I do, somebody will complain about it and say I should've done the opposite. When the forums reached peak tumblr, I let Zack do the Halloween experiment, where all rules went out the window and the SJWs were chased out of town. That's when GBS started really going downhill and effort posts were discouraged, people just ran around calling each other Google, one word replies, memes, etc etc. It was the complete opposite of how it was run before, and then people still got upset and said GBS was bad and wrong and not good anymore.

Try to look at it from my point of view. In the 16 years I've been running the forums, people have constantly claimed I'm doing a poor job and doing the wrong thing and making poor decisions. After a while it starts to feel numbing, like no matter what I do or change, all I'll get is negative feedback and complaints. Any change I make, even font sizes, is met with criticism. One group of people will want one thing, and another group will want the opposite. It's impossible to listen to the userbase, because the userbase is never united and cannot agree on what they want.

As for the SoSe folks, I don't attack anybody, I just disregard a majority of their opinions and ideas because their community has proven time and time again that they're generally a bunch of pricks with grudges who would rather tell my wife they hope she dies during childbirth than actually engage in a rational discussion.

Sorry for the length of this post, but it's difficult to explain what it's like to run a forum / community of this size for so long. Nearly any change is met with criticism no matter how minor, lots of people have lots of ideas to "improve" the forums (and they all conflict with each other), and many people declare they could easily do a better job running things than I ever could. All this makes it difficult to respond to "my customers" and there's no magic way I can change things that would appease everybody and get a 100% consensus on.

Thanks for responding to me, seriously.

For what it's worth, I 100% get where you're coming from. I've only run SS for a few months now, and half the forum wants me to hand it over to White Nationalists or something and hates me, and I was a pretty well regarded guy (I liked to think) a year ago. Literally nothing I can do will please everyone, and anything I do is guaranteed to piss off half the forums and cause some kind of gay split. I can't imagine doing it for 16 years. o_O

I only bring up our gay drama at our very small forum to say that in microcosm I can absolutely understand what you're saying in a way that I never could a year ago.

I don't know what the answer is for you, I don't know what it is for me. I do think that you have to make some kind of decisions and plans, because if I walk away from SS it's just less money I pay out every month. If you walk away from SA, it's your livelihood. One way or another, I think you need to make some sort of decisions with or without community input as to the direction of your forums and become more involved in managing them directly. The speed of the group is the speed of the leader. You'll probably piss a lot of people off, but if you pick a direction you might shed half the userbase but start to grow it again, instead of slowly attritioning it into nothing. Maybe you go full SJW? Maybe you go full shitlord? Maybe you try to focus it back on humor? You have the power man.

 

[whatever I feel like]

I've only run SS for a few months now, and half the forum wants me to hand it over to White Nationalists or something

They want to see you unban a lot of people who were unfairly banned by your predecessor. With the exception of Mariner Militant (who was threatening to dox people) nobody on swole crew deserved to be plexed and nobody on the forum with the exception of GAPO wanted them to be. I have yet to see anyone say that they are happy the Jew posting is gone (while the nigger/tranny/faggot posting remains) and I have yet to see anyone say that they are happy user activity collapsed right after a fourth of the memberbase was banned. Fuck you can see them making that comment in this very thread. "Unban swole crew!" Its popped up more than once.

 

[Lowtax]

For what it's worth, I 100% get where you're coming from. I've only run SS for a few months now, and half the forum wants me to hand it over to White Nationalists or something and hates me, and I was a pretty well regarded guy (I liked to think) a year ago. Literally nothing I can do will please everyone, and anything I do is guaranteed to piss off half the forums and cause some kind of gay split. I can't imagine doing it for 16 years. o_O

THANK YOU. Seriously, I'm not trying to make it sound like running and maintaining an online community is akin to brain surgery, but unless somebody's actually done it for a significant period of time with a significant user base, they have no idea what it's actually like and what it takes to do it. I don't say that to mean "well if you haven't done it then you can't criticize me," I'm just trying to stress how a lot of people offer criticisms and "solutions" that will somehow magically solve all problems, based off their knowledge of never having run an active forum before. For example, when I changed the font, there was 5 pages of people complaining about the type of anti-aliasing I used in the CSS and arguing which type is the best and most proper for such a thing. Literally any single change or tweak you make on an active community forum will result in outbursts of anger from people who claim to inherently know the undeniable 100% correct way to do what you just failed to do.

After a while, you just get numb to it all. It's like if I posted a thread saying "post in here and I'll give you $100," people would complain "well why aren't you giving us $1000?" Folks relentlessly rag on the mods and dox them and crusade against them, and then act surprised when another mod takes their place and they, too, aren't the dream mod they were hoping for. Guess what? Some people get kinda turned off by the neverending criticisms, dox threats, and the neverending flow of people insulting them about everything. These people are volunteers. They're moderating to try and improve the community on a comedy website forum. What motivation would somebody have to volunteer their time modding a forum where they'll instantly become a despised target people aim to harass until they give up and leave?

People complain I don't listen to the community suggestions, but that's simply not the case. The issue comes with implementing suggestions, because every single time I've done that, it's instantly triggered a massive upheaval of rage from one or both sides of a group. There's no point scouring the place for the perfect mod or admin, because regardless of whom I choose, they'll be the target of rabidly irate people declaring them "the worst mod or admin ever" and demanding I demote them.

The sociological aspect of forum community behavior is so very unique, and I'm not sure researchers will ever be able to truly understand it. It sometimes comes off as a population of people who are perpetually pissed off and love to point out every flaw or mistake made on their forum, yet not pissed off to leave and go somewhere else. Something emotional was triggered in their brain, convincing them it's perfectly reasonable to follow and frequently monitor a site they've actively despised for years. As a webmaster, the only thing you can do is follow your gut instinct and do what you think is best, because at least then you'll please and be honest to yourself, the one with experience.

 

[MysteriousStranger]

The sociological aspect of forum community behavior is so very unique, and I'm not sure researchers will ever be able to truly understand it.

I've participated in hundreds of newsgroups and forums over the years, and each one had its own unique character. I'm unclear how that develops. The moderators and their style have more to do with it than any other factor, but that is by no means the whole story.

 

[TiggerNits]

THANK YOU.


People complain I don't listen to the community suggestions, but that's simply not the case. The issue comes with implementing suggestions, because every single time I've done that, it's instantly triggered a massive upheaval of rage from one or both sides of a group. There's no point scouring the place for the perfect mod or admin, because regardless of whom I choose, they'll be the target of rabidly irate people declaring them "the worst mod or admin ever" and demanding I demote them.

I feel like if they ever find a cure to low grade autism and borderline personality disorder, handling goons will become a pretty easy job

 

[Graffiti canvas]

It doesn't matter what forum you're on. The staff is always going to be the target of people being unhappy and the only people who seem to talk about the staff are the ones who are complaining. So it gets monotonous. It's like the unhappy meter in Roller coaster Tycoon. It's always there.

The quickest way to find out what people want is not to ask or survey them... instead, make a change and then announce it. Suddenly people come out of the woodwork that have never been seen or heard from before with nerd rage over your CSS and offer 20 different ways it could be done differently using vague descriptions interspersed with "You should let me do it"

 

[AlanRickmanIsDead]

What motivation would somebody have to volunteer their time modding a forum where they'll instantly become a despised target people aim to harass until they give up and leave?

You know why.

 

[OwO What's This?]

It's like a Libertarian Frat House where everyone is stupidly aggressive for no reason.

 

[Cynical]

Y'know, upon second thought, while I agree that Something Awful is a bottomless well of lolcowishness, I'm starting to wonder if maybe I had too nice an opinion of SoSe the first time round after seeing all of the more spastic, rage filled faggots from there start shit here.

I also took a closer look at the place, and damn, it's hard to tell if it's MRA-lite circlejerk there or a bunch of repressed homosexuals who brag about how manly they are while sodomizing hairless guys with bolted on tits.

Even with the "swole cru" banished to their version of the Spergatory, those guys are OBSESSED with proving how straight and manly they are, and that's when they aren't unironically saying Hitler did nothing wrong.

 

[HG 400]

I agree that Something Awful is a bottomless well of lolcowishness, I'm starting to wonder if maybe I had too nice an opinion of SoSe

SoSe is just a goon clique. They're no better or worse than the rest of Something Awful.

 

[GentlemanFaggot]

Yeah, I liked SoSe when they provided the goods on the more unusual members of SA, but they've done a shitty job of proving many of them aren't "banned pantshitters," here. It's a shame.

And fuck, I cannot believe I'm feeling more sympathetic to Lowtax. I guess this can happen when you listen to both sides.

SA is still a shithole though.

 

[Holocaust Mansplainer]

It's like some gay internet episode of scooby doo in here "oh lets see who the real goons REALLY are oh look it's old man lowtax trying to scare everyone off his forum to claim insurance money to finance his third divorce"

 

[Lowtax]

And fuck, I cannot believe I'm feeling more sympathetic to Lowtax. I guess this can happen when you listen to both sides.

I've gotten a lot of comments / messages along those lines, like "I always thought you were a tremendously huge asshole, but now that I've read your posts here, I'm starting to think you're maybe only a huge asshole." The internet has a fantastic ability to warp the perception of people, usually in a negative way, because the angry folks are often the most vocal. Then there's the echo chamber effect that magnifies those beliefs, and soon it spreads and is accepted as fact because hey, if you read it on the internet it must be true.

I'm just a guy on the internet, and I have no problem shooting the shit with you guys. I actually enjoy this thread / forum, because most of you are fairly levelheaded and reasonable. Sure you think my site sucks and I do / did a horrible job running it, but that's cool, I'm not here to change your opinion and you can believe whatever you like. You all seem more receptive to ideas and thoughts that might not match your previous beliefs, and that's something pretty difficult to find on the internet. Seems like everybody nowadays forms an opinion which then becomes fact to them, and they reject anything that might invalidate what they believe is true.

I know it's sappy, but I just wanted to thank you guys for actually reading and responding to the stuff I write, instead of taking the SoSe route of dismissing anything I say because I'm the worst anything ever.

 

[Cynical]

I've gotten a lot of comments / messages along those lines, like "I always thought you were a tremendously huge asshole, but now that I've read your posts here, I'm starting to think you're maybe only a huge asshole." The internet has a fantastic ability to warp the perception of people, usually in a negative way, because the angry folks are often the most vocal. Then there's the echo chamber effect that magnifies those beliefs, and soon it spreads and is accepted as fact because hey, if you read it on the internet it must be true.

I'm just a guy on the internet, and I have no problem shooting the shit with you guys. I actually enjoy this thread / forum, because most of you are fairly levelheaded and reasonable. Sure you think my site sucks and I do / did a horrible job running it, but that's cool, I'm not here to change your opinion and you can believe whatever you like. You all seem more receptive to ideas and thoughts that might not match your previous beliefs, and that's something pretty difficult to find on the internet. Seems like everybody nowadays forms an opinion which then becomes fact to them, and they reject anything that might invalidate what they believe is true.

I know it's sappy, but I just wanted to thank you guys for actually reading and responding to the stuff I write, instead of taking the SoSe route of dismissing anything I say because I'm the worst anything ever.

Don't how much this means, but here goes:

My opinion of you has markedly improved. You took some harsh criticism on the chin and haven't raged about it or done like so many other cows and tried to get us taken off the internet. Your response to your most bitter haters has been "fuck it, I know I suck, what more do you want?" instead of raging back. You even admit you've fucked up quite a bit, and no, just because that's true doesn't make you Satan McHitler.

Don't get me wrong though: This still does not erase the fact that there is a grain of truth to the SoSe bitching: You really did and have allowed some truly depraved and pathetic lolcows to take a shit over your forum, and it turned into a POS because you weren't a better steward of the place, that I still hold to be utterly true and still consider a valid complaint, though props for copping to this anyway.

So while I'm not sure I'd ever want to go to the Something Awful Forums, the SoSe people have a massively distorted image of you with one grain of truth and a lot of faggoty bullshit attached, and if it means anything, thanks for stopping by, and God bless you and your family.

 

[HG 400]

I've gotten a lot of comments / messages along those lines, like "I always thought you were a tremendously huge asshole, but now that I've read your posts here, I'm starting to think you're maybe only a huge asshole." The internet has a fantastic ability to warp the perception of people, usually in a negative way, because the angry folks are often the most vocal. Then there's the echo chamber effect that magnifies those beliefs, and soon it spreads and is accepted as fact because hey, if you read it on the internet it must be true.

I'm just a guy on the internet, and I have no problem shooting the shit with you guys. I actually enjoy this thread / forum, because most of you are fairly levelheaded and reasonable. Sure you think my site sucks and I do / did a horrible job running it, but that's cool, I'm not here to change your opinion and you can believe whatever you like. You all seem more receptive to ideas and thoughts that might not match your previous beliefs, and that's something pretty difficult to find on the internet. Seems like everybody nowadays forms an opinion which then becomes fact to them, and they reject anything that might invalidate what they believe is true.

I know it's sappy, but I just wanted to thank you guys for actually reading and responding to the stuff I write, instead of taking the SoSe route of dismissing anything I say because I'm the worst anything ever.

For what it's worth, I've always thought you were a regular asshole.

 

[AnOminous]

Don't get me wrong though: This still does not erase the fact that there is a grain of truth to the SoSe bitching: You really did and have allowed some truly depraved and pathetic lolcows to take a shit over your forum, and it turned into a POS because you weren't a better steward of the place, that I still hold to be utterly true and still consider a valid complaint, though props for copping to this anyway.

Much of it is the simple fact that every Internet community dies eventually. People lose interest, move on, whatever.