🐱 Robert E. Lee opposed Confederate monuments

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CatParty
http://www.businessinsider.com/robert-e-lee-opposed-confederate-monuments-2017-8


Debates about the removal of Confederate statues have been ongoing for many years, and opponents of removing the monuments often decry such attempts as an attempt to erase history.

In light of all this, it's probably best to remember one relevant historical fact: Robert E. Lee was opposed to Confederate monuments.

“It’s often forgotten that Lee himself, after the Civil War, opposed monuments, specifically Confederate war monuments,” Jonathan Horn, a Lee biographer, told PBS.

After the Civil War, Lee received a number of letters requesting support for the erection of Confederate memorials, according to Horn.

In June 1866, he wrote that he couldn't support a monument of one of his best generals, Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson, saying it wasn't "feasible at this time."

"As regards the erection of such a monument as is contemplated," Lee wrote in December 1866 about another proposed Confederate monument, "my conviction is, that however grateful it would be to the feelings of the South, the attempt in the present condition of the Country, would have the effect of retarding, instead of accelerating its accomplishment; [and] of continuing, if not adding to, the difficulties under which the Southern people labour."

Not only was Lee opposed to Confederate memorials, "he favored erasing battlefields from the landscape altogether," Horn wrote.

He even supported getting rid of the Confederate flag after the Civil War ended, and didn't want them them flying above Washington College, which he was president of after the war.

"Lee did not want such divisive symbols following him to the grave," Horn wrote. "At his funeral in 1870, flags were notably absent from the procession. Former Confederate soldiers marching did not don their old military uniforms, and neither did the body they buried."

“His Confederate uniform would have been ‘treason’ perhaps!” Lee’s daughter wrote, according to Horn.

"Lee believed countries that erased visible signs of civil war recovered from conflicts quicker,” Horn told PBS. “He was worried that by keeping these symbols alive, it would keep the divisions alive."
 
Also, Confederate flags weren't popular until the 20th century, as a way to protest against civil rights. And the flag they wave around isn't even the flag that was used by the Confederate Army.
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The thing is: does his opinion really matter?
Also, in terms of the article, it sounds more like Lee was opposed to setting up monuments since they might lead to political problems between the victors and the defeated.
It wouldn't surprise me if he was that forward thinking about it.

People are at birth ignorant and over the years of their lives need to develop their self awareness (which is a token rarity now), no sides barred. So destroying monuments is just feeding to that ignorance.
That is rather a problem I noticed. I feel glad I've taken that many history classes in school to know of how ignorance breeds contempt like that.

I do wish the KKK, Neo-Nazis and Antifa would fuck off they make any debate a shitstorm of exceptionalism and extreme views and the actual debate gets removed and replaced with pointing at these groups supporting or denouncing it. Then the stupid protest fights begin where both groups arm themselves looking for a fight and from that point on the debate can never recover and all we get is kneejerk reactions to anything similar.
I wish we were doing this...
brotherfromthesameplanet9.png
 
Lee was worried because a cult of personality had already been formed around him during the war. After his surrender he was quick to strike down any calls for a continuation of the war and focused on using whatever authority he had (moral) to encourage Confederates to accept reality and settle down under Northern rule. He encouraged them to stop thinking of themselves as Confederates but rather told them to concentrate on being good Americans.

He was also a modest man and hated when he was celebrated with outsize honors.
 
Lee was worried because a cult of personality had already been formed around him during the war. After his surrender he was quick to strike down any calls for a continuation of the war and focused on using whatever authority he had (moral) to encourage Confederates to accept reality and settle down under Northern rule. He encouraged them to stop thinking of themselves as Confederates but rather told them to concentrate on being good Americans.

He was also a modest man and hated when he was celebrated with outsize honors.
Perhaps we should've done more to present that fact before it was too late?
 
That would involve teaching nuances rather than just a broad brush. The broad brush is much easier to teach. And it's easier to virtue signal against a cartoonish depiction of evil rather than teaching that Confederates were actual people, with differing motivations and attendant shades of gray.
 
That would involve teaching nuances rather than just a broad brush. The broad brush is much easier to teach. And it's easier to virtue signal against a cartoonish depiction of evil rather than teaching that Confederates were actual people, with differing motivations and attendant shades of gray.

That HBO series is going to be an absolute shitshow no matter what, isn't it? :(
 
Unless it's broadcasted outside the US like Japan, Australia or the Philippines.

That worries me in a different way. You can't have an honest, serious conversation about the Civil War in America today. I have no faith this series will do anything but pander, and then the rest of the world will become as ignorant about the war as the willfully ignorant in America.
 
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http://www.businessinsider.com/robert-e-lee-opposed-confederate-monuments-2017-8


Debates about the removal of Confederate statues have been ongoing for many years, and opponents of removing the monuments often decry such attempts as an attempt to erase history.

In light of all this, it's probably best to remember one relevant historical fact: Robert E. Lee was opposed to Confederate monuments.

“It’s often forgotten that Lee himself, after the Civil War, opposed monuments, specifically Confederate war monuments,” Jonathan Horn, a Lee biographer, told PBS.

After the Civil War, Lee received a number of letters requesting support for the erection of Confederate memorials, according to Horn.

In June 1866, he wrote that he couldn't support a monument of one of his best generals, Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson, saying it wasn't "feasible at this time."

"As regards the erection of such a monument as is contemplated," Lee wrote in December 1866 about another proposed Confederate monument, "my conviction is, that however grateful it would be to the feelings of the South, the attempt in the present condition of the Country, would have the effect of retarding, instead of accelerating its accomplishment; [and] of continuing, if not adding to, the difficulties under which the Southern people labour."

Not only was Lee opposed to Confederate memorials, "he favored erasing battlefields from the landscape altogether," Horn wrote.

He even supported getting rid of the Confederate flag after the Civil War ended, and didn't want them them flying above Washington College, which he was president of after the war.

"Lee did not want such divisive symbols following him to the grave," Horn wrote. "At his funeral in 1870, flags were notably absent from the procession. Former Confederate soldiers marching did not don their old military uniforms, and neither did the body they buried."

“His Confederate uniform would have been ‘treason’ perhaps!” Lee’s daughter wrote, according to Horn.

"Lee believed countries that erased visible signs of civil war recovered from conflicts quicker,” Horn told PBS. “He was worried that by keeping these symbols alive, it would keep the divisions alive."

Maybe he was right, but he didn't count on Antifa did he. Rise Lee! Rise and fight for your land once more!
 
Textbooks covering the Civil War are put together by academics who choose simplistic good v evil themes because it's easy. Normally I'd say if a textbook is bad, replace it. In this case all the choices are bad. And it's kept quiet because there's a lot of money to be made for everyone involved. Publishers, school boards (especially in huge school districts, like Los Angeles), principals, etc. There's an ocean of dirty money sloshing around, and every now and then you can catch a glimpse of it before it's ignored again.

Example, first fucking result on google for "textbook publisher bribes". https://www.cbsnews.com/news/textbook-publisher-kickback-scam/


There's tons of shit out there and the thing that you quickly see when you follow these stories is that there's a big initial outcry and then it completely fades away.
 
That would involve teaching nuances rather than just a broad brush. The broad brush is much easier to teach. And it's easier to virtue signal against a cartoonish depiction of evil rather than teaching that Confederates were actual people, with differing motivations and attendant shades of gray.

So were the actual Nazis, or at least some of them. Still, I don't have any problem with there not being monuments to Erwin Rommel, even if he was one of those with human features.
 
http://www.businessinsider.com/robert-e-lee-opposed-confederate-monuments-2017-8


Debates about the removal of Confederate statues have been ongoing for many years, and opponents of removing the monuments often decry such attempts as an attempt to erase history.

In light of all this, it's probably best to remember one relevant historical fact: Robert E. Lee was opposed to Confederate monuments.

“It’s often forgotten that Lee himself, after the Civil War, opposed monuments, specifically Confederate war monuments,” Jonathan Horn, a Lee biographer, told PBS.

After the Civil War, Lee received a number of letters requesting support for the erection of Confederate memorials, according to Horn.

In June 1866, he wrote that he couldn't support a monument of one of his best generals, Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson, saying it wasn't "feasible at this time."

"As regards the erection of such a monument as is contemplated," Lee wrote in December 1866 about another proposed Confederate monument, "my conviction is, that however grateful it would be to the feelings of the South, the attempt in the present condition of the Country, would have the effect of retarding, instead of accelerating its accomplishment; [and] of continuing, if not adding to, the difficulties under which the Southern people labour."

Not only was Lee opposed to Confederate memorials, "he favored erasing battlefields from the landscape altogether," Horn wrote.

He even supported getting rid of the Confederate flag after the Civil War ended, and didn't want them them flying above Washington College, which he was president of after the war.

"Lee did not want such divisive symbols following him to the grave," Horn wrote. "At his funeral in 1870, flags were notably absent from the procession. Former Confederate soldiers marching did not don their old military uniforms, and neither did the body they buried."

“His Confederate uniform would have been ‘treason’ perhaps!” Lee’s daughter wrote, according to Horn.

"Lee believed countries that erased visible signs of civil war recovered from conflicts quicker,” Horn told PBS. “He was worried that by keeping these symbols alive, it would keep the divisions alive."
Lee says that Confederate symbols weren't economically feasible or strategically viable for North-South relations during the era of reconstruction, both valid reasons. Apparently these temporary concerns make this a "gotcha" for honoring Confederate War heroes for all times and places. Do these people even read what they write?

fake news
 
Lee's opinion is worth more than that of any other man, but his words alone could not demolish an entire nation any more than Lincoln could unlawfully slaughter one, no matter how hard each tried in the end. Only time and a few more generations can do that. Assuming the empire he and the Confederates opposed doesn't collapse due to some other reason.
 
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