Richard Meyer v. Mark Waid (2018)

[Mola Ram]

No.

But it does have some absolutely marvelous effects on his credibility as a witness.

 

[Least Concern]

Also, if I recall correctly from the Clinton impeachment, one of excuses made revolved around the fact that perjury was rarely actually prosecuted. Is this still true?

As @AnOminous said, it's true, and this is a major failing of our judicial system, I think, at least when it comes to criminal cases. Police and prosecutors lie in court all the time since the odds of there being any consequence for it are so minute. Defendants can lie too, of course, but have more incentive not to since the judge may remember it once sentencing time comes. Even if you do find a judge that calls a cop's or prosecutor's perjury out and refers it to a prosecutor, the prosecutor can still choose not to prosecute police and other prosecutors, whom they are probably quite chummy with.

Call me a libertarian nut-job, but I think the concept of criminal court cases should be thrown out and all cases should be civil. So, say, if you murder someone, that person's friends and family drag you to court rather than the state. Not only does this help avoid conflicts of interest like the above, it also means nobody gets busted for victimless crimes like drug usage.

 

[AprilRains]

Defendants can lie too, of course, but have more incentive not to since the judge may remember it once sentencing time comes.

Had this been your actual experience of the legal system, and if so, how did you come by it? Because that sounds nothing at all like what I've seen.

 

[Least Concern]

Had this been your actual experience of the legal system, and if so, how did you come by it? Because that sounds nothing at all like what I've seen.

You're asking me how I came by the experience that a defendant in a criminal case might lie? It should be common sense, but I'll humor you by saying that prison is a miserable experience and some people will do what they can to avoid it, even if that involves perjury.

 

[AprilRains]

You're asking me how I came by the experience that a defendant in a criminal case might lie?

That's not the part of your statement that I wondered about. Why do you think defendants have less incentive to lie than cops or prosecutors?

 

[AnOminous]

Call me a libertarian nut-job, but I think the concept of criminal court cases should be thrown out and all cases should be civil. So, say, if you murder someone, that person's friends and family drag you to court rather than the state. Not only does this help avoid conflicts of interest like the above, it also means nobody gets busted for victimless crimes like drug usage.

It also means all a serial killer has to do to get away with it forever is just pick poor people.

 

[Least Concern]

That's not the part of your statement that I wondered about. Why do you think defendants have less incentive to lie than cops or prosecutors?

I did speak to that, but I'll elaborate; if it becomes apparent that they have lied, and they are subsequently found guilty, the judge may take the dishonesty into account when deciding on a sentence for the defendant.

 

[AprilRains]

I did speak to that, but I'll elaborate; if it becomes apparent that they have lied, and they are subsequently found guilty, the judge may take the dishonesty into account when deciding on a sentence for the defendant.

I asked about your experience that led to this conclusion. What have you seen that leads you to think so?

 

[Least Concern]

I asked about your experience that led to this conclusion. What have you seen that leads you to think so?

I don't want to :powerlevel:, so let's just say that I've been in and around more courthouses than I'd like in my life and have personally seen instances where a judge has taken a defendant's behavior inside the courtroom into account when sentencing someone to a harsher sentence than they otherwise might have received.

But really, that should be common sense too.

 

[AprilRains]

I don't want to :powerlevel:, so let's just say that I've been in and around more courthouses than I'd like in my life and have personally seen instances where a judge has taken a defendant's behavior inside the courtroom into account when sentencing someone to a harsher sentence than they otherwise might have received.

But your theory requires that the defendant be both forethoughtful and cognizant of the likelihood of discovery. Neither has been characteristic of the defendants I've seen.

But really, that should be common sense too.

Hm, I thought the point I'd made would also be common sense.

Then again, I thought it'd be common sense to know the difference between restating an idea and explaining why you believe it. You don't seem to have had that much sense either.

You also seem to think that a snotty, condescending tone is a sign of strength in an argument, not of weakness. That's not sensible either. It's called a "tell", and you have it in spades. I let is pass twice, and I'm done allowing it.

Really, you're a lot like Waid.

Fuck right along, now.

 

[Least Concern]

But your theory requires that the defendant be both forethoughtful and cognizant of the likelihood of discovery. Neither has been characteristic of the defendants I've seen.

Okay. Throughout this discussion, by "defendant," I've also meant "defendant and their counsel." I don't know your situation, but I'll take your word for it that every defendant you've met in your life has been unaware of the workings of a courtroom. But would that apply to their lawyers as well?

I let is pass twice, and I'm done allowing it.

Really, you're a lot like Waid.

Fuck right along, now.

lul come at me bro, but yeah this one-on-one convo has been pretty dumb.

 

[AprilRains]

I'll take your word for it that every defendant you've met in your life has been unaware of the workings of a courtroom.

And since that's not what I said at all, you're either lying or incredibly stupid.

Doesn't matter which. We're done here.

Back to the subject, then. It seems unlikely that Waid will be charged with perjury, according to knowledgeable people on this thread. What is Meyer and company's best move here? Challenge the obvious bullshit right away, or let Zaid and friends run with it too a point of no return?

I'm put in mind of the 1960 U-2 incident, in which the USSR cleverly exposed our bullshit story a bit at a time. Every time we told a new story to explain the last leak, there'd be another to falsify it. Would this approach work here?

 

[armoreddinnerjacket]

It also means all a serial killer has to do to get away with it forever is just pick poor people.

If justice being served is dependent on the victim's ability or resources, most poor victims are more likely to be able to afford a gun and a Google search than a court case.

 

[AnOminous]

Waid has just filed a "supplemental declaration" letting the court know that he just now "remembered" that he had in fact been physically present in Texas talking about Meyer during the period he said he was doing no business in Texas.

He cites https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbLVYvXnwp0 from 18:50 on.

Honest Injun he just totally forgot. Just slipped his mind.

 

[AprilRains]

So much for my U-2 incident idea.

 

[mindlessobserver]

Waid has just filed a "supplemental declaration" letting the court know that he just now "remembered" that he had in fact been physically present in Texas talking about Meyer during the period he said he was doing no business in Texas.

He cites https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbLVYvXnwp0 from 18:50 on.

Honest Injun he just totally forgot. Just slipped his mind.

I mean, he talks shit about Meyer all the time. It must be so hard to remember precisely where and when he's doing it

 

[AnOminous]

I mean, he talks shit about Meyer all the time. It must be so hard to remember precisely where and when he's doing it

It's almost like he's criss-crossing the country and defaming him in front of huge audiences wherever he goes. It's not like he's being sued for that or anything.

 

[Love Soze]

I kind of wish Twitter had kept it's mouth shut about the interview so that Ya Bio's lawyer could have hit Waid with it in a document.

 

[RockVolnutt]

It's almost like he's criss-crossing the country and defaming him in front of huge audiences wherever he goes. It's not like he's being sued for that or anything.

"I have no influence to be able to muscle smaller publishers. Just ask all the other pros coming out against THAT DAMN FUCKING NAZI, RICHARD C. MEYER, HE MAKES ME SO MAD"

I wonder how the spin with Waid's supporters is going to look about the correction.

 

[AnOminous]

"I have no influence to be able to muscle smaller publishers. Just ask all the other pros coming out against THAT DAMN FUCKING NAZI, RICHARD C. MEYER, HE MAKES ME SO MAD"

I wonder how the spin with Waid's supporters is going to look about the correction.

None of those clowns even seem aware what the lawsuit is about. I doubt they'll even know this happened. They're insulated in a cocoon that reality cannot penetrate.