Red Letter Media

[Bush King]

Except that it does affect Anakin's character a great deal. The vow of celibacy is part of what makes him an insufferable prick in these movies.

He's a prick because George can't write.

George at least understood that all good romances need an obstacle to overcome in order to be captivating.

The problem was that the central romance of the prequels literally has no reason to be opposed. So he had to go and "invent" the rule of chaste Jedi in order to give the couple something to overcome.

Trust me, I was there. I remember seeing the posters of "a jedi shall not know love" in comic book stores as the movie neared release date and talking with friends about how this came out of nowhere. Oh sure there was nothing in the earlier films contradicting it, but there had never been any indication before of this. Indeed shipping wars were a thing back in the old EU and celebrations when Luke finally got with Mara Jade.

That's one of the bigger problems with the prequels. As soon as you spot 'why' something was done, it loses it's 'depth.' Especially when things aren't explained in depth or made more organic to the story. Hence why at the time, there were plenty of jokes in the fandom of "well the Jedi can't love - so go bang any whore you want, just as long as you don't respect them in the morning."

This is my point- just because it is there does not mean it makes sense, nor does it work as a plot point.

As Drag has said, the Jedi are entirely contadictory in the prequels, yet we are supposed to believe it's somehow anything but George being a hack writer who had surrounded himself with yes-men?

Of course not. It makes no sense that Jedi are celibate because it is never explained. It makes no sense to "bring balance to the force" because it is never explained what that means or what the purpose is or how that could even ever be achieved except as a hackneyed way to hand-wave the fact that George wanted millions of Jedi when CGI could do it while retaining the story of the originals only having three original Jedi appear. It would be like if the Pope in 1022 revealed a prophecy about how Jesus would "bring balance to the world" in 2022 and everyone in Rome just kept mum about it. No debates, no theological treatises, no nothing. Just a thousand years of waiting, then some depressed kid becomes a Cardinal, the other Cardinals kvetch in angst about it for a bit, then they all die.

There's zero reason for the celibacy other than "that's what some Churches do". There's zero reason for being emotionless automata other than "that's what I think religious people are". There's zero reason for "bringing balance to the force" except to get all the pieces lined up for A New Hope. The three major plot points that "develop" Anakin's character are never explained or justified or discussed by anyone except as reasons to keep Anakin from doing anything and pissing him off to deus ex machina his face-heel turn. The only meaningful part of his turn is the Sandpeople kidnapping and killing his mother, which does little to actually show him as evil because he killed barbarous, marauding criminals. The only hint that this event "turned" him evil is him having a big old scowl on his face before he kills them and then having a bit of a pout to Padme about how he did it. But that's not important. We need to know which species of Woodoo the Emperor's droids used on Vader's helmet.

 

[Flexo]

This is my point- just because it is there does not mean it makes sense, nor does it work as a plot point.

As Drag has said, the Jedi are entirely contadictory in the prequels, yet we are supposed to believe it's somehow anything but George being a hack writer who had surrounded himself with yes-men?

Of course not. It makes no sense that Jedi are celibate because it is never explained. It makes no sense to "bring balance to the force" because it is never explained what that means or what the purpose is or how that could even ever be achieved except as a hackneyed way to hand-wave the fact that George wanted millions of Jedi when CGI could do it while retaining the story of the originals only having three original Jedi appear. It would be like if the Pope in 1022 revealed a prophecy about how Jesus would "bring balance to the world" in 2022 and everyone in Rome just kept mum about it. No debates, no theological treatises, no nothing. Just a thousand years of waiting, then some depressed kid becomes a Cardinal, the other Cardinals kvetch in angst about it for a bit, then they all die.

There's zero reason for the celibacy other than "that's what some Churches do". There's zero reason for being emotionless automata other than "that's what I think religious people are". There's zero reason for "bringing balance to the force" except to get all the pieces lined up for A New Hope. The three major plot points that "develop" Anakin's character are never explained or justified or discussed by anyone except as reasons to keep Anakin from doing anything and pissing him off to deus ex machina his face-heel turn. The only meaningful part of his turn is the Sandpeople kidnapping and killing his mother, which does little to actually show him as evil because he killed barbarous, marauding criminals. The only hint that this event "turned" him evil is him having a big old scowl on his face before he kills them and then having a bit of a pout to Padme about how he did it. But that's not important. We need to know which species of Woodoo the Emperor's droids used on Vader's helmet.

Yep.

I again don't want to drag all this into this thread when the Star Wars one is right over there, it's just that if you have ever written a rough draft of a story before, the prequels will seem all too familiar to you because you see a lot of the flaws you own works will end up having. You're writing along and realize your couple needs a challenge driving them a part - oh let's invent this rule that comes between them! Yeah it makes perfect sense when you're just trying to get the words down on paper. It's only when you stop, take a step back, than you realize, "oh wait, there's supposed to be A WAR going on. What if THAT was what drove them apart instead?"

I mean it's clear when you look at making of stuff for the OT. George Lucas really did have plans for Anakin and Vader to be two different people. They were both slated to appear in Empire Strikes Back. It was only as he worked at and worked at the story that he realized the plot was overstuffed. Yoda, Kenobi's ghost, Anakin's ghost, Vader, they were all jostling for screentime. What if he... trimmed the cast? That's when he had the idea of making Anakin and Vader one character, noticing in ANH that there were several pieces of dialog that actually fit this story change quite well, AND noticed that it gave the villain proper motivation and elegant explanations for his actions though the film.

It's super obvious when you watch them that the prequels are almost exactly like that ESB first draft, and not like the refined, edited stories we ended up getting.

 

[DankSmoker]

They should watch Lexx and Farscape.

Those are too farcical though. Battlestar, Stargate, Babylon 5 maybe.

 

[Bush King]

What if he... trimmed the cast? That's when he had the idea of making Anakin and Vader one character, noticing in ANH that there were several pieces of dialog that actually fit this story change quite well, AND noticed that it gave the villain proper motivation and elegant explanations for his actions though the film.

It's super obvious when you watch them that the prequels are almost exactly like that ESB first draft, and not like the refined, edited stories we ended up getting.

Also one of the major issues of the sequels.

There's too many people with too much going on. You've got Finn and Poe, Hahn and Leia, Kylo and Rey, Maz Kanata, Brienne of Tarth, the Droids, and Snookie, the First Order generals, and they all have conflicting motivations and plot threads.

Compared to the very first film, which had Luke supported by Kenobi and Hahn, Vader as the antagonist, with the plot points being Leia and the Death Star.

 

[ditto]

Those are too farcical though. Battlestar, Stargate, Babylon 5 maybe.

I think Rich has said he likes Babylon 5.
But I think it's far too earnest and not campy enough for Mike.

 

[malapropism]

I think a lot of backlash is based around them saying there's nothing to back up the claims that Anakin and Obi-wan were friends, and people taking opposing sides if the strong writing of the spin-off cartoons justifies this, and some people lambasting RLM for not taking account of Clone Wars, while others don't care about cartoons. I think that spin-offs being good doesn't excuse shitty writing, especially in flagship products that bring back old actors, but I also see that if someone was a big star wars fanboy they do make some broad generalizations about the franchise without even mentioning some of the highs that less honest youtubers would include as matter of fact statements even if they still didn't consume them (awful video game youtubers are prone to take general consensus as their own opinion)

There's just this incredible apathy that was once a running gag on Half in the Bag (pretty much at inception) that's gotten a little stale now (props for over a decade of this track, 15 of Plinkett) and they are choosing the worst vehicles to amplify that apathy - capeshit and star wars. Compare this to the real hatred felt during the Discovery recaps or the real joy Jay has talking about some horror movie that almost seemed too niche for a theater run. I think with streaming they just kinda have a disconnected experience, iirc they watch while tired and quite late in the day and maybe that uninvolved attitude just seeps into their reviews, and might even miss the theater experience they so often shat on. I always had to remind some people about the "demographics" of where they live and might be biased against the movie experience for a reason....aint no Toho cinemas or Alamo Drafthouse there.

 

[Newman's Lovechild]

I again don't want to drag all this into this thread when the Star Wars one is right over there

I specifically avoid the Star Wars thread because the essays full of autism and backwards logic were too much even for me. It hasn't been fun to see it shit up this topic too.

 

[Internet War Criminal]

I specifically avoid the Star Wars thread because the essays full of autism and backwards logic were too much even for me. It hasn't been fun to see it shit up this topic too.

It's not worth telling people to cut it out, cause let's not act like Star Wars fags have anything else going on in their life except talking about that shit.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

I think a lot of backlash is based around them saying there's nothing to back up the claims that Anakin and Obi-wan were friends, and people taking opposing sides if the strong writing of the spin-off cartoons justifies this, and some people lambasting RLM for not taking account of Clone Wars, while others don't care about cartoons. I think that spin-offs being good doesn't excuse shitty writing, especially in flagship products that bring back old actors, but I also see that if someone was a big star wars fanboy they do make some broad generalizations about the franchise without even mentioning some of the highs that less honest youtubers would include as matter of fact statements even if they still didn't consume them (awful video game youtubers are prone to take general consensus as their own opinion)

There's just this incredible apathy that was once a running gag on Half in the Bag (pretty much at inception) that's gotten a little stale now (Props for over a decade of this track, 15 of Plinkett) and they are choosing the worst vehicles to amplify that apathy - capeshit and star wars. Compare this to the real hatred felt during the Discovery recaps or the real joy Jay has talking about some horror movie that almost seemed too niche for a theater run. I think with streaming they just kinda have a disconnected experience, iirc they watch while tired and quite late in the day and maybe that uninvolved attitude just seeps into their reviews, and might even miss the theater experience they so often shat on. I always had to remind some people about the "demographics" of where they live and might be biased against the whole thing for a reason....aint no Toho cinemas or Alamo Drafthouse there.

I have noticed that I pay way more attention in the theater than I do watching TV for two basic reasons:

1) I paid for a $13 matinee. I damn well better get what I paid for.
2) The environment of the theater encourages the audience to pay attention to the screen. It's dark, the speakers are everywhere, and the screen is a sixth of the room.

I'm well aware people do look at their phones in the theater, but that's a personal choice. Compare it to being at home, where there's all kinds of distractions going on and you may or may not have a home entertainment system. It's a lot easier to get bored and check your phone or do chores. Which is shit when trying to analyze media.

 

[TVB]

I specifically avoid the Star Wars thread because the essays full of autism and backwards logic were too much even for me. It hasn't been fun to see it shit up this topic too.

I don't blame you, quite honestly.

 

[Brain Problems]

Review was fun and I had some laughs but I agree with people saying the RLM krew are at their weakest when talking about something that they're lukewarm at best on. I wanted to chime in and say that Jay was coming across as contrarian hipster troll when he tossed that bomb about the reason why everyone hates Last Jedi is because of the scene where Luke considers murdering a sleeping kid.

TLJ has a million reasons to hate it on top of that and acting like that one example is the focal point of ire toward the movie is disingenuous at best and a came across to me as a a weird attempt to act like he's really above it all when it's a textbook example of Rian's undergrad iconoclasm-lite writing.

 

[Internet War Criminal]

I wanted to chime in and say that Jay was coming across as contrarian hipster troll when he tossed that bomb about the reason why everyone hates Last Jedi is because of the scene where Luke considers murdering a sleeping kid.

No, he was right, the reason people mentioned the most when shitting on that movie was just out of character he seemed to be acting. People were losing their shit about throwing away the light saber, trying to kill rylo, being moody etc etc more than anything else.

Maybe in retrospect people are bitching about it more but I still remember the REEEEEs from back then, the lightsaber and trying to kill kylo being at the forefront.

 

[Mr. Duck]

TLJ has a million reasons to hate it on top of that and acting like that one example is the focal point of ire toward the movie is disingenuous at best and a came across to me as a a weird attempt to act like he's really above it all when it's a textbook example of Rian's undergrad iconoclasm-lite writing.

I bet he's still mad at everyone who threw him shit for insisting that Rey is not a Mary Sue.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

I bet he's still mad at everyone who threw him shit for insisting that Rey is not a Mary Sue.

And that Daisy Ridley is "charismatic as hell."

 

[Internet War Criminal]

I bet he's still mad at everyone who threw him shit for insisting that Rey is not a Mary Sue.

Or, far more likely, since he noticed the last time that star wars faggots will just reeee and spam him if he says something they don't like, he's saying that kind of shit so faggots (like you) reee at him and he otherwise doesn't give a shit.

Like I mean seriously how much of a faggot do you have to be to sit and be like 'I bet mr funnyman who reviews tv shows on the internet from wisconsin is like SO ANGRY still that we showed him he was WRONG when he defended that Star Wars character!!!'

Nigga there is no way he even fucking remembers that shit, much less care, kys.

 

[byuu]

Like I mean seriously how much of a faggot do you have to be to sit and be like 'I bet mr funnyman who reviews tv shows on the internet from wisconsin is like SO ANGRY still that we showed him he was WRONG when he defended that Star Wars character!!!'

Nigga there is no way he even fucking remembers that shit, much less care, kys.

Keep coping. Jay was clearly paid by Disney for his extremely positive TLJ review.

 

[trailcamwhore]

I bet he's still mad at everyone who threw him shit for insisting that Rey is not a Mary Sue.

It's really important to him to avoid having the same opinion anonymous internet dudes have, especially when they're right.

 

[Mega Black]

TLJ has a million reasons to hate it on top of that and acting like that one example is the focal point of ire toward the movie is disingenuous at best and a came across to me as a a weird attempt to act like he's really above it all when it's a textbook example of Rian's undergrad iconoclasm-lite writing.

Jay has been really unwilling to walk back or acknowledge any kind of criticism regarding the sequels, to an extent where it often comes across like he takes it personally that people disagree with his opinion. You'd think he wrote the fucking Plinkett reviews, the way he acts.

It was like when he said that Ret "is a good fucking actress" or whatever with a sudden spike in vitriol during one of the reviews. He's clearly got some kind of chip on his shoulder regarding Star Wars fans, probably because they disagree with him more than most subgroups on the internet.

Like I mean seriously how much of a faggot do you have to be to sit and be like 'I bet mr funnyman who reviews tv shows on the internet from wisconsin is like SO ANGRY still that we showed him he was WRONG when he defended that Star Wars character!!!'

Keep crying.

It's really important to him to avoid having the same opinion anonymous internet dudes have, especially when they're right.

Can't have the same opinions as the chuds, they're stinky smelly man babies after all.

 

[Internet War Criminal]

. He's clearly got some kind of chip on his shoulder regarding Star Wars fans, probably because they disagree with him more than most subgroups on the internet.

or its because youre all annoying faggots, as the last six pages of super serious star wars discussion have shown.

 

[Mega Black]

or its because youre all annoying faggots, as the last six pages of super serious star wars discussion have shown.

Pot, meet kettle.