Red Letter Media

[Mola Ram]

Yeah... at this point Mauler's going to have more time speaking on camera than the last 3 Popes and Billy Graham combined.

It's one of the reasons I can't stand these guys. No one on that podcast is worth listening to for eight fucking hours, and it's sheer narcissism for them to think they are.

 

[Milwaukee Macho Man]

That's longer than the whole Kenobi show and their review combined. Jesus.

This is why I'm surprised when people get mad at me calling these people faggots.

 

[Flexo]

It's one of the reasons I can't stand these guys. No one on that podcast is worth listening to for eight fucking hours, and it's sheer narcissism for them to think they are.

You know I was tempted to argue because I do enjoy some of the random clips...

But then I decided to see where the RLM video bit actually began...

20:15!!!!

And part of that is Rags going on a multi-minute tangent of whether "Umbrella" or "parasol" would be a more evil name for an evil corporation.

Say what you will, at least Mike & the bois edit their shit down.

 

[stuffandthings]

EFAP getting butthurt that RLM dared to enjoy Kenobi is just peak autism. I love it.

RLM is never ashamed to admit they liked something dumb for dumb reasons. They're not afraid of being 'hypocritical' for tearing Picard a new one for having Borgs unable to breathe in space because it contradicts a single movie, and yet forgiving all the weird retcons in Kenobi.

I'll probably hate Kenobi, because I've seen all of Clone Wars and Rebels, and enjoyed a certain amount of other EU material. But I'm not going to get my panties in a twist because Jay and Mike and Rich don't know that Kenobi and Maul have already had their final showdown in 2 BBY, and that it's strongly implied in Rebels that Maul didn't know where Kenobi was after order 66.

I would rather someone be honest in their inconsistency. Because opinions on media are usually like that. You'll hate a show for something that you forgive in a different show.

 

[Flexo]

I think there may also be an issue with people confusing RLM as a single entity. As MauLer pointed out (hey, I was doing an endurance test, finally had to tap out), Jay, Mike, and Rich each had 3 different reactions to the show. But then treat Plinkett reviews as if it was all 100% endorsed by all 3 and is "their" opinion. If you don't bother separating out everybody's views, then yeah it is going to seem contradictory. Conversely... well Rich has always been pretty cold and cruel to SW and called it 'creatively bankrupt' multiple times, so he's hardly inconsistent just going by his words alone.

Now Mike on the other hand... his opinion seems related to which beer he's drinking that day.

 

[Strange Wilderness]

Eight hours to criticize a one hour review? Here's my critique of the Obi Wan review:

They should have waited until the whole show was done to review it to evaluate it overall because the ending could be something decent or be a piece of trash that makes the show not worth watching at all.

They seem to be biased because of how bad Picard sent the Start Trek franchise into the crapper and were happy to get a mediocre show rating it higher than they usually would.

Jay should have called the Obi Wan show shlock since he was entertained by the cheapness of the show but danced around it.

End rant. Please remember to subscribe to my newsletter Wingnut Shack on Tatooine, donate to my Patreon, and hit that like button below.

There less than 10 seconds to type out my complaints about the new episode.

A mystery box is fine as a macguffin, but by the third act it has to be revealed and the fallout surrounding it. If the reveal is the last 10 minutes of the movie with no epilogue or denouement well...then it's all a waste of time and only exists for a sequel bait. But sadly people will still eat it up, some are wising up to it, but it will still take a while before that style of plot writing ends.

What you should do with a mystery box is actually decide what it is going to be before you start writing your story. JJ never does that. He just writes the first third of the story at best or visualizes a bunch of shots made for a trailer and lets someone else figure out how to handle the ending. Hes a carnival barker trying to get you into his darkened tent to see the fearsome monster within but its just a junkyard pitbull.

Say what you will, at least Mike & the bois edit their shit down.

Its one of the reasons they are so popular: they actually edit their shit down to the funny bits and make it watchable. I would not be surprised if the new review took them eight hours to shoot and was full of dead air, bathroom breaks, repeating themselves, talking about their personal lives, poorly done jokes that they redid, off tangent rants, small talk about the weather, and all kinds of boring stuff that no one wants to listen too. They put effort into their work and are rewarded with a dedicated fanbase and a crapload of Patreon dollars.

 

[reptile101]

EFAP getting butthurt that RLM dared to enjoy Kenobi is just peak autism. I love it.

RLM is never ashamed to admit they liked something dumb for dumb reasons. They're not afraid of being 'hypocritical' for tearing Picard a new one for having Borgs unable to breathe in space because it contradicts a single movie, and yet forgiving all the weird retcons in Kenobi.

I'll probably hate Kenobi, because I've seen all of Clone Wars and Rebels, and enjoyed a certain amount of other EU material. But I'm not going to get my panties in a twist because Jay and Mike and Rich don't know that Kenobi and Maul have already had their final showdown in 2 BBY, and that it's strongly implied in Rebels that Maul didn't know where Kenobi was after order 66.

I would rather someone be honest in their inconsistency. Because opinions on media are usually like that. You'll hate a show for something that you forgive in a different show.

i was gonna watch it cause i was interested in the spergness that was gonna happen

but then i clicked it and saw they had the faggot jay on and noped out

 

[ThatDarnIrishMan]

That's longer than the whole Kenobi show and their review combined. Jesus.

Yeah, the second I saw them sperging out about this on Twitter I knew they'd do a breakdown of the review and just...why?

They've already done them reacting to each episode individually which are generally longer than the episodes too, so why do they need to spend 8 hours responding to a not overly crazy review?

I'm not gonna watch efap, I already can picture it in my head. They pause, sperg for 30 minutes for a point they've covered 10 times already in their own reviews of the show and then go 30 more seconds before pausing for 30 minutes.

 

[ddlloo]

8 hours... fucking hell.

I think a lot of the people that are too invested in fandoms are fairly pathetic, and that also applies to the antt-fandoms? Hate-watchers? Whatever these guys are.

At least the people IN the fandoms are actually enjoying what they watch, I can't imagine being this invested in disliking something. Can't be healthy, I hope for their sakes it's largely performative.

 

[Flexo]

i was gonna watch it cause i was interested in the spergness that was gonna happen

but then i clicked it and saw they had the faggot jay on and noped out

There is a bit of mirth in them having to constantly distinguish between RLM Jay and EFAP Jay.

 

[Bush King]

Sure JJ isn't solely to blame for TRoS, but based on past movies, all that could have been expected was fast-paced action and nothing else. Which is what happened, but with significantly more plotholes than expected.

In fact, in the MovieBob thread, I argued for treating TLJ as canon. Not because it's good, but solely for continuity reasons. One of TRoS's many fatal errors was breaking continuity so blatantly that verisimilitude couldn't be achieved.

Definitely the weirdest reason for considering it canon I've seen. I wanted it to be canon because while I was laughing my ass off driving my mates home, they were all bitching about how Star Wars was ruined and they'd never watch it again. Fast forward five years...

Also RoS had to break continuity. The fans wanted TLJ rebuked, JJ had to to save the sinking ship. What's more important for the Mouse- making sure the plot between two films makes sense, or longevity of the franchise and customer loyalty?

https://imgur.com/84FU9Kj

Eh.... not sure TLJ was much improved in continuity.

Thanks for reminded me how beautiful TLJ can be. For all it's faults, it's the most original looking and lots of scenes are masterfully shot. I love the deep reds, purples and oranges compared to JJ's constant flat blues.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

Definitely the weirdest reason for considering it canon I've seen. I wanted it to be canon because while I was laughing my ass off driving my mates home, they were all bitching about how Star Wars was ruined and they'd never watch it again. Fast forward five years...

Also RoS had to break continuity. The fans wanted TLJ rebuked, JJ had to to save the sinking ship. What's more important for the Mouse- making sure the plot between two films makes sense, or longevity of the franchise and customer loyalty?

Thanks for reminded me how beautiful TLJ can be. For all it's faults, it's the most original looking and lots of scenes are masterfully shot. I love the deep reds, purples and oranges compared to JJ's constant flat blues.

Well, now they have neither. Had they tried to connect TLJ, it might have been forgiven in time. Now it's the movie that killed the Golden Goose.

 

[Bush King]

Well, now they have neither. Had they tried to connect TLJ, it might have been forgiven in time. Now it's the movie that killed the Golden Goose.

Again, Captain Hindsight is a genius. It's also probably not true, they've got a bazillion shows now, which is the whole point behind the films- tent-poles to drum up cheaper schlock that can be pumped out.

What Disney is really worried about (or was, they may have come to terms with it) is the sheer lack of interest in the toys. No one wants Vader or Luke or Rey or whatever else they've cooked up. Not in a million years would I ever believe you if you said that Star Wars toys would rot on shelves, yet here we are.

 

[Well Intentioned]

Sounds like you're putting words in my mouth. Plinkett makes the argument that hypercharged characters are good for the movie. I say they aren't and the fact that JJ Trek has slipped from the minds of people is proof that Michael Bay-esque storytelling doesn't hold up.

It's been forever since I've watched that Plinkett review, but I think you're missing some important context as it relates to what he was saying.

Again, might be getting my reviews mixed up, so whatever, but he talked about how the 'old' Star Trek movies wouldn't fly today. IE, how the first one was something you could go out, get a haircut, do your taxes, etc. and not miss anything.

The 'electrofying' characters bit was talking about how to make Star Trek a bankable property in the current era of movies, and that was basically by stating that folks really don't give a shit about story, nuance, science fiction-y stuff, etc. but that they do care about the shit your average Joe would know about ("Live Long and Prosper", "Beam me up, Scottie", etc.)

So the smart move, from a business perspective, was to take the recognizable elements and crank them up to 11.

More to the point, it's had splash-on effects on TFA too. TFA has the same kind of problems 09 had. JJ delivered what he always delivered, but for some bizarre reason, RLM is bedazzled by JJ's filmmaking when it's not that much different from Michael Bay, whom they make fun of all the time. They simply have inconsistent opinions and low expectations so people are questioning what they're thinking.

I do think that if, gun to his head, Mike would probably say with hindsight Abrams wasn't the best choice, but I also think he doesn't really give too much of a shit. And honestly, I think that his remark about Abrams directing the Star War prequels was just a statement that his spectacle film making approach would've fit a lot better with the bloated CGI fests that were the prequels rather than Lucas (who he was directly comparing him to) whose shot/reverse shot and very basic approach to filming/directing couldn't have been further apart in approach/style and that approach would better suit Star Wars rather than some hypothetical Star Trek film he would've liked to have seen (not what we got.)

But again, I may be misremembering shit.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

It's been forever since I've watched that Plinkett review, but I think you're missing some important context as it relates to what he was saying.

Again, might be getting my reviews mixed up, so whatever, but he talked about how the 'old' Star Trek movies wouldn't fly today. IE, how the first one was something you could go out, get a haircut, do your taxes, etc. and not miss anything.

The 'electrofying' characters bit was talking about how to make Star Trek a bankable property in the current era of movies, and that was basically by stating that folks really don't give a shit about story, nuance, science fiction-y stuff, etc. but that they do care about the shit your average Joe would know about ("Live Long and Prosper", "Beam me up, Scottie", etc.)

So the smart move, from a business perspective, was to take the recognizable elements and crank them up to 11.



I do think that if, gun to his head, Mike would probably say with hindsight Abrams wasn't the best choice, but I also think he doesn't really give too much of a shit. And honestly, I think that his remark about Abrams directing the Star War prequels was just a statement that his spectacle film making approach would've fit a lot better with the bloated CGI fests that were the prequels rather than Lucas (who he was directly comparing him to) whose shot/reverse shot and very basic approach to filming/directing couldn't have been further apart in approach/style and that approach would better suit Star Wars rather than some hypothetical Star Trek film he would've liked to have seen (not what we got.)

But again, I may be misremembering shit.

But was it really the business savvy decision? The year before, in 2008, The Dark Knight came out and made a billion dollars, $800 million domestic. I think it's overrated, but dumb, it was not. It got those numbers because Batman fans kept telling their non-Batman fans how good it was plus the novelty of seeing Heath Ledger's last performance. At its core, this movie is still interesting to rewatch, which led to repeat viewings.

The JJ movies have all aged like milk, and Midnight's Edge has covered why the merchandising rights for JJ Trek fell through. That 25% difference in aesthetics came off as counterfeit, which is why Kelvin merch didn't sell. The same thing happened to TFA merch and it's pretty noticeable, such as how the Stormtrooper helmets have that angular front, the TIE fighter has missiles, the X-wing has an afterburner, and the Millenium Falcon getting that rectangular dish. You might not have noticed the 25% difference, but your brain did.

Then whatever momentum the first movie generated was squandered until 2013 when Into Darkness was rushed into production using the same team as 09. In that entire 4 years, there was no natural buzz generated by fans to non-fans, which is how getting the general audience works. 09 was the movie that had the tagline "This is not your father's Star Trek." Just that tagline alone nerfed old fan buzz. With near non-existent merch and middling word of mouth, Kelvin Trek faded from the public consciousness until Into Darkness... which was the TLJ of Star Trek, right down to Roberto Orci and Simon Pegg insulting viewers for calling it the worst movie ever. That panic came about because the business side of Kelvin Trek was mismanaged on many levels from the executives. To normies, the JJ Trek movies were the ones with the lens flares in them and shrugged away. They lost both the general audience and access to audiences.

 

[Flexo]

Well, now they have neither. Had they tried to connect TLJ, it might have been forgiven in time. Now it's the movie that killed the Golden Goose.

Buried somewhere now on the Star Wars griefing thread I had a brief discussion about how the SW Resistance cartoon COULD have been used to salvage TLJ in kind of the same way all the extra clone wars media salvaged the prequels, but we all know how that turned out. I've said it several times before, I'll sum it up: TFA wasn't too awfully bad, until the mega-death-star was introduced. TLJ was then made a worse mess of things following that with several mistakes such as not utilizing a time skip. tRoS was just the final shit explosion that was an inevitable result of dumb, bad story decisions made from the start. It should be taught in writing classes for decades to come as an object lesson in what NOT to do.

Anyway, cross post from the SW thread:

 

[Newman's Lovechild]

Well if you really want, EFAP released their 8 hr monstrosity critique of RLM's kenobi video.

but I'd sooner rewatch the RLM review eight times, though I disagree with a few points in it, than that torrent of concentrated autism.

 

[Mola Ram]

but I'd sooner rewatch the RLM review eight times, though I disagree with a few points in it, than that torrent of concentrated autism.

"Autism" implies they'd actually be making some interesting technical points or waxing philosophical at ungodly length. These jagoffs just like to listen to themselves talk for hours on end, and bigger jagoffs apparently send them money to do it. Oh well. No accounting for taste.

 

[Well Intentioned]

But was it really the business savvy decision? The year before, in 2008, The Dark Knight came out and made a billion dollars, $800 million domestic. I think it's overrated, but dumb, it was not. It got those numbers because Batman fans kept telling their non-Batman fans how good it was plus the novelty of seeing Heath Ledger's last performance. At its core, this movie is still interesting to rewatch, which led to repeat viewings.

I honestly think Ledger's death built TDK up far more than anything else, really. I quite like the movie, but if we're talking 'general audience' or 'normies', I think that played a factor more than anything else (compare Begins and Rises. Both were successful but nowhere near as omnipresent as TDK was, IMO.)

But to answer your question, no, I don't think that it was, and I think that Mike would echo that sentiment. Again, the Plinkett review was talking about how this was a guilty pleasure movie (ie, something you shouldn't like but do) and how it was a 'good' movie within the context of the perpetual Hollywood reboot/fradulent sequels/remake environment it currently is in.

It's not a good 'Star Trek' movie, and he outlines what his tastes are and why that is, but it does a good job within the Hollywood reboot/reimagining model.

The JJ movies have all aged like milk, and Midnight's Edge has covered why the merchandising rights for JJ Trek fell through. That 25% difference in aesthetics came off as counterfeit, which is why Kelvin merch didn't sell. The same thing happened to TFA merch and it's pretty noticeable, such as how the Stormtrooper helmets have that angular front, the TIE fighter has missiles, the X-wing has an afterburner, and the Millenium Falcon getting that rectangular dish. You might not have noticed the 25% difference, but your brain did.

Yeah, I mean, I noticed that shit right off the bat and I also realized it was literally just to try and push more toys/whatever for Star Wars. I agree with you on the movies not aging well, but honestly, it's a larger problem within Hollywood of strip mining 'marketable' properties and anything even remotely recognizable and then running that shit into the ground. Again, the Plinkett review did caution that folks could burn out on this, but, honestly, I don't really think that Paramount or whoever really gives a shit. They just needed box office $ 'right now.'

It's not sustainable, but it's the current Hollywood environment. I don't think RLM in general has been very complimentary towards the ENDLESS TRASH model, but they acknowledge that there are some movies that 'work' within that context and they enjoy. It doesn't mean they're advocating that this is how a movie 'should' be or whatever.

 

[The Bovinian Derivative]

called it 'creatively bankrupt' multiple times

An autistic tick always goes off in my mind every time he says that, although my opinion is probably skewed by the videogame side of Star Wars which I had more exposure to than any other EU media. With the exception of the core story it's just a setting like any other, you can do whatever with it. All the AT-STs, Lightsabers, the Jedi, and Star Destroyers are just paint for a canvas where a skilled painter could paint whatever he wants (gay metaphor I know). Look at the Mandalorian, you can argue it's just Lone Wolf and Cub, but it had original characters doing something we haven't seen here using familiar imagery. Then S02 happened because Disney (and Filoni I guess) couldn't help being Disney, but that's not the setting's fault.